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  1. #351

    Re: Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle to the Yankees for Rutherford, Clarkin and Clippard

    I felt Rutherford should have been an untouchable, but this trade looks absolutely lopsided right now. Rutherford is struggling badly for the White Sox in the minors. And we have Kahnle and D-Rob for next year too. Kahnle for a couple of years. Great trade.

    Still on the fence with the Sonny trade though. Those were 3 big bullets we shot for him. He needs to be better.

  2. #352

    Re: Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle to the Yankees for Rutherford, Clarkin and Clippard

    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNewman View Post
    slightly reminiscent of Bernie's dash home after Todd Zeile's chuck-it-into-the-ground mistake in 1996 ALCS. Not exactly the same but reminded me of it.
    I was thinking Johnny Damon in the 2009 WS but, yeah, that's a better one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jace View Post
    Frazier's 9 or 10 pitch walk is forgotten, but Gardner's AB and hit doesn't happen without Frazier grinding that out.
    It won't be forgotten by the fans! Not really relevant but Judge's presence was also felt in that Gardner AB because that's largely why Allen didn't want to walk him.

    So, to sum up - I was on board with the trade from the get-go first because I thought bringing Robertson back was exactly what we needed. Then Kahnle became an intriguing bullpen piece - didn't really know what to expect out of him but figured at worst he's another arm out there for the next two years. Frazier was just a veteran "plug-in" guy to shore up the corner infield situation. I never dreamed that Frazier would become the heart and soul of the team but dammit, I sure am glad that he did!
    /sarcasm
    KayNOTForPresident

  3. #353

    Re: Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle to the Yankees for Rutherford, Clarkin and Clippard

    only clarification to post is that Kap was part of the Gray deal and not the Sox deal.

    With that said:

    Cashman took the Sox to the cleaners on this deal regardless. I'm not thinking about either Ian Clarkin or Blake Rutherford at this point. Clarkin was injured quite some in the minors. Blake's part of an OF glut honestly.

    If we can be ALCS contenders with Robertson/Kahnle in the fold, this trade will bring us an excellent ROI. Also, Frazier's leadership and defense were priceless. Imagine Headley at 3B.....

  4. #354

    Re: Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle to the Yankees for Rutherford, Clarkin and Clippard

    Between the WC game and the ALDS, D-Rob and Kahnle have combined for 13 IP, 0.69 ERA, 0.54 WHIP, 11.08 K/9, 2.08 BB/9.

    Frazier's numbers overall aren't great, but he both scored and drove in a few really big runs.

  5. #355
    Devoted Member
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    Re: Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle to the Yankees for Rutherford, Clarkin and Clippard

    I really hope we bring back Frazier. He seems like a great clubhouse guy and he has pop.

    I say this not because of an emotional series, but as a born-and-raised Ocean County kid. Iíve brrn advocating the Yankees acquire him for years.

  6. #356
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    Re: Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle to the Yankees for Rutherford, Clarkin and Clippard

    Just getting rid of Clippard made this a great trade.
    Equally as calm as ClownPickle ~(+/- 1)

  7. #357
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    Re: Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle to the Yankees for Rutherford, Clarkin and Clippard

    Quote Originally Posted by Norge View Post
    I really hope we bring back Frazier. He seems like a great clubhouse guy and he has pop.

    I say this not because of an emotional series, but as a born-and-raised Ocean County kid. Iíve brrn advocating the Yankees acquire him for years.
    It's not gonna happen unless we trade Headley, need the room in the roster for Andujar and later in the year for Torres

  8. #358
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    Re: Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle to the Yankees for Rutherford, Clarkin and Clippard

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    Just getting rid of Clippard made this a great trade.

    Yesss

  9. #359

    Re: Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle to the Yankees for Rutherford, Clarkin and Clippard

    Quote Originally Posted by Snatch Catch View Post
    I'm on a White Sox forum reading through their thread as the news was breaking last night, and it's hilarious. They had a big come-down from their initial expectations when the first rumors about the trio being traded to the Yankees initially came out. Wait until they realize that Florial is actually a better prospect than Rutherford at this point.
    • Almost positive Rutherford will be in this. Sox loved him last year and he was held out today. My guess is Blake, Andujar and Adams.
    • Prospect lists are fluid. I'd be happy with 2--3 in the 50-100 range (and rising) as much as one "elite"
    • If the Sox are giving up Robertson, Kahnle and Frazier, I want both Rutherford and Torres.
    • Torres and Andujar maybe? This is so exciting. When Rick does what he wants, he makes sure he's in the driver seat. Takes that knife and shoves it down the throat.
    • Semi realistic pie in the sky hope: Rutherford, Mateo, Adams, Andujar
    • Blake, Mateo, Adams? Everyone cool with that?
    • The Yankees are blowing the Sox away if they are packaging players together.
    • Fine, give me Rutherford, Sheffield, Acevedo, Florial and Abreu
    • To me, Andujar and Mateo wouldn't be enough
    • Call me crazy, but what if Hahn and Cashman have been having ongoing conversations about Robertson and it came up as "what would it take for us to get Torres?" And Cashman said Frazier and Kahnle? The Yanks still have Gregorious through 2020 and he's turned into a pretty damn good player.
    • Cashman is not dumb by a long stretch.Give me Rutherford, Adams, and Fowler, and I'll say it was a good trade. I'd take Andjujar and/or Mateo as well.
    • Mateo, Andujuar, Florial, Abreu, Solak, Clarkin...if we could get a package of 4 of those I'd be a happy camper.

    Then, after Rutherford was leaked as being one of the guys in the deal:
    • You have to think Andujar is going to come back as well, no? Rutherford, Fowler, Andujar?
    • I doubt they trade an injured player. Rutherford, Andujar, Mateo, Adams?
    • Like I said a page or two ago, I think Rutherford + Andujar + 1 other real prospect would be fantastic
    • I'd like Blake, Sheffield, Florial, Acevedo?
    • Don't know how I feel about a Rutherford headliner. It's coolfor a DRob or Frazier trade, but including Kahnle too? Kahnle is the guy you hold until 11:50 on trade deadline night for absolute pillaging.
    • If it's a package of just lower level guys, I'm assuming Rutherford, Florian, Clarkin, and maybe one or two more
    • I really hope Clarkin isn't the next best guy after Rutherford.
    • Same would be a tad disappointing
    • Same. That might be the only thing that disappoints me at this point.
    • I need more than Rutherford and clarkin. Deal is missing one more quality piece.
    • Agree. In my ideal (realistic) deal, Clarkin would have been the nice 3rd piece.
    • I was just thinking that. He seems like a 3rd or 4th piece.
    • If Florial is included, I'll be pleased.
    • Damn, glad to see I was wrong and Rutherford is in the deal. I just hope Clarkin isn't the second biggest piece coming our way. Can't imagine Dave would react the way he did if he was.
    • Rutherford, Clarkin, Andujar, Florial would do it for me.
    • I think it's pretty unlikely Clarkin is the 2nd best piece in this deal. Trading 3 above average major leaguers. Two of which have control beyond this season. This package should contain Rutheford, (insert prospect), Clarkin, +
    • I would have never traded both Robertson and Kahnle for Rutherford. Especially if we are taking back Clippard.
    • I need more to this deal than Rutherford and clarkin
    • Yes seems light AF
    • With Clippard coming back, we most certaintly need more than just Rutherford and Clarkin!
    • Andujar, Florial, and one of their better higher level arms, like Adams.
    • I think that is a bit much, but I would take the latter two and call it fair.

    Finally, after the news broke that it was Rutherford, Clarkin, Clippard, and a mystery 4th prospect:
    • If only one more it's got to be someone in the Yanks top 15. Hoping for either Florial or Andujar, but wouldn't be too surprised if it was Mateo
    • Florial...Florial...Florial...
    • Normally pretty optimistic about deals but the White Sox are giving a good amount of value. I would want more than Rutherford even if he was a good prospect coming out of the draft. He currently has a .733 OPS in A Ball. I would expect the last player is who they are haggling over hopefully Andujar is the guy but I would settle for Wade.
    • If it's one more I'd prefer Andujar and he makes more sense since he's part of their 40 man issue.
    • Either is legit i feel like. Wish we could not get the pitcher and get both Florial & Andujar
    • 4th guy has to be good. Kahnle has a stupid friendly contract, need another top prospect
    • Yea it's a bit disappointing so far. The last player will be interesting though.
    • [From their board insider] It's not Mateo, Florial or Solak.
    • If that's the case, Brian Cashman did very, very well.
    • Rutherford is very exciting, and Clarkin is nice, but this is not a win by any means. We are giving up 3 quality pieces and taking on Clippards contract here.
    • If the only spects are Rutherford and Clarkin, that makes this less than stellar.
    • Abreu would get me as excited as Florial or Andujar

    It's fun going back and reading the snap comments on the day the trade was made and how their were quite a few of ya who thought this was a bad trade... however nothing was more enjoyable than re-reading the post Snatch Catch posted on the White Sox forum...

    To be blessed with the contributions of Robertson, Kahnle & Frazier - each making their indelible mark on the postseason - truly amazing.

    Has anyone missed Rutherford or Clarkin from the system? Even if they go on to be all-stars - this trio has exceeded any expectation of the short term value that was to be extracted. (Anyone know WAR values since the acquistion?)

    Goes on to say that Cash typically has found success with Chi WS as a trade partner.

  10. #360
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle to the Yankees for Rutherford, Clarkin and Clippard

    Quote Originally Posted by groundhoggator View Post
    (Anyone know WAR values since the acquistion?)
    Depends on which version of WAR ou use:
    Robertson 1.8 b-r.com/1.1 Fangraphs
    Frazier 1.6/1.2
    Kahnle 0.8/0.7
    Pretty darn good either way.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  11. #361
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    Re: Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle to the Yankees for Rutherford, Clarkin and Clippard

    Just an incredible ROI at this point. Unbelievably good.
    Jaret Wright's 2005 Cy Young Season: 20-3, 3.04 ERA

  12. #362

    Re: Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle to the Yankees for Rutherford, Clarkin and Clippard

    This trade looks pretty genius right now. Frazier is really fun to watch.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  13. #363
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    Re: Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle to the Yankees for Rutherford, Clarkin and Clippard

    Starting 3B and 2 relief aces (both under contract) for Blake F’n Rutherford. Insane.

    I guarantee you they could put Kahnle on the market this offseason and recoup a prospect that’s better than Rutherford. That’s how much of a steal this trade was. Same goes for Drob.

  14. #364
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    Re: Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle to the Yankees for Rutherford, Clarkin and Clippard

    These guys have been worth their weight in gold in the playoffs, it's obviously a win.

  15. #365

    Re: Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle to the Yankees for Rutherford, Clarkin and Clippard

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    Starting 3B and 2 relief aces (both under contract) for Blake Fín Rutherford. Insane.

    I guarantee you they could put Kahnle on the market this offseason and recoup a prospect thatís better than Rutherford. Thatís how much of a steal this trade was. Same goes for Drob.
    That is the truth. But we will and should keep both for next year with Betances MIA.

  16. #366

    Re: Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle to the Yankees for Rutherford, Clarkin and Clippard

    Imagine this postseason without them.

  17. #367
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    Re: Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle to the Yankees for Rutherford, Clarkin and Clippard

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Man_With_No_Plan View Post
    Imagine this postseason without them.
    The Twins would have lost to the Indians.
    Equally as calm as ClownPickle ~(+/- 1)

  18. #368
    NYYF Cy Young

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    Re: Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle to the Yankees for Rutherford, Clarkin and Clippard

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    Just getting rid of Clippard made this a great trade.


    agree 100%. Also didn't realize he plays Houston.
    Listen to the bell Grossbard, it tolls for thee.

  19. #369
    Senior Member
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    Re: Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle to the Yankees for Rutherford, Clarkin and Clippard

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    Starting 3B and 2 relief aces (both under contract) for Blake Fín Rutherford. Insane.

    I guarantee you they could put Kahnle on the market this offseason and recoup a prospect thatís better than Rutherford. Thatís how much of a steal this trade was. Same goes for Drob.
    And the best part is that they got Clippard back

  20. #370
    New Murderer's Row False1's Avatar
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    Re: Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle to the Yankees for Rutherford, Clarkin and Clippard

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyBombers View Post
    That is the truth. But we will and should keep both for next year with Betances MIA.
    Imagine the haul they'd have gotten if they'd traded Betances in the offseason. This is an extreme MMQB hypothetical, and perhaps Betances can rebound and come back dominant next year, but wow... given that he's basically a liability at this point in time, and the bullpen got that huge boost from D-Rob and Kahnle... having a Chapman or Miller-type of return on Betances would have been insanely good fortune.

  21. #371

    Re: Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle to the Yankees for Rutherford, Clarkin and Clippard

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Imagine the haul they'd have gotten if they'd traded Betances in the offseason. This is an extreme MMQB hypothetical, and perhaps Betances can rebound and come back dominant next year, but wow... given that he's basically a liability at this point in time, and the bullpen got that huge boost from D-Rob and Kahnle... having a Chapman or Miller-type of return on Betances would have been insanely good fortune.
    I'm pretty confident that Betances will rebound. His stuff is still there..He just can't throw a strike. When you're 6-8 and going through a bad stretch mechanically that can happen. There's just no time to wait for him to put things together now.

    Also, the Chapman/Miller trades were a bit of an anomaly because both the Indians and Cubs were desperate to make a run given their long WS droughts. For both teams, the bullpen was the missing ingredient. I don't think you are likely to see a return that good for a reliever for a while.

  22. #372

    Re: Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle to the Yankees for Rutherford, Clarkin and Clippard

    Quote Originally Posted by billyhoyle View Post
    I'm pretty confident that Betances will rebound. His stuff is still there..He just can't throw a strike. When you're 6-8 and going through a bad stretch mechanically that can happen. There's just no time to wait for him to put things together now.

    Also, the Chapman/Miller trades were a bit of an anomaly because both the Indians and Cubs were desperate to make a run given their long WS droughts. For both teams, the bullpen was the missing ingredient. I don't think you are likely to see a return that good for a reliever for a while.
    Not 100% certain that trade is as easy without Betances here. You can point to him as a reason why it's a luxury, not a need. Leverage for Cash is lower.

  23. #373

    Re: Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle to the Yankees for Rutherford, Clarkin and Clippard

    Not too bad of a trade..

  24. #374

    Re: Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle to the Yankees for Rutherford, Clarkin and Clippard

    Hats off to Brian Cashman for believing in his team enough to go out and get reinforcements, when MANY (including myself) doubted this was the year to make such moves.

  25. #375
    Do not vex me mortal Hitman23's Avatar
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    Re: Frazier, Robertson, Kahnle to the Yankees for Rutherford, Clarkin and Clippard

    When this trade was finalized, I was a huge fan of Robertson coming back, probably my favorite part of this trade. But many were saying when all was said and done Kahnle was going to be the gem. It’s starting to look like it. This outing was HUGE for us. Going into game 6 with D Rob and Chapman fully rested. You can’t ask for much more.
    ĒWhat people call love is just a chemical reaction that compels animals to breed. It hits hard, Morty, then it slowly fades.Ē

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