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  1. #1

    15 Reasons Not to Rebuild a Pitching Staff Through Free Agency

    I've compiled a list of Yankee Free Agent Starting Pitchers who were busts (my opinion). Next time you're tempted to recommend signing a free agent starting pitcher, review this list. Building pitching from within the organization is really the only way to be consistently successful. In alphabetical order,

    Kevin Brown
    AJ Burnett
    Jose Contreras
    Don Gullett
    Andy Hawkins
    Kei Igawa
    Hideki Irabu
    Randy Johnson
    Dave LaPoint
    Carl Pavano
    Pascual Perez
    Kenny Rogers
    Jared Wright
    Javy Vazquez (twice)
    Ed Whitson

    Of course there have been successes, which is why free agents are such a tease. Here s a list of free agent starting pitchers who had some success with the Yankees. I'll leave it to you to decide if they were worth the money.

    Roger Clemens (acquired in a trade the first time)
    David Cone (originally acquired in a trade)
    Orlando Hernandez
    Catfish Hunter
    Tommy John
    Jon Lieber
    Mike Mussina
    CC Sabathia (twice)
    Masahiro Tanaka
    David Wellls (acquired in a trade the first time)

    The 2 lists are not comprehensive. Please feel free to add names

  2. #2
    NYYF Legend

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    Re: 15 Reasons Not to Rebuild a Pitching Staff Through Free Agency

    Nice job.

    lol @ Kei Igawa, just lol

    I felt bad for Don Gullett - I think he would have been a great addition had he not gotten injured....lol same goes for Carl Pavano - he was never the same after he sprained his butt hee hee hee
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  3. #3

    Re: 15 Reasons Not to Rebuild a Pitching Staff Through Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    I've compiled a list of Yankee Free Agent Starting Pitchers who were busts (my opinion). Next time you're tempted to recommend signing a free agent starting pitcher, review this list. Building pitching from within the organization is really the only way to be consistently successful. In alphabetical order,

    Kevin Brown
    AJ Burnett
    Jose Contreras
    Don Gullett
    Andy Hawkins
    Kei Igawa
    Hideki Irabu
    Randy Johnson
    Dave LaPoint
    Carl Pavano
    Pascual Perez
    Kenny Rogers
    Jared Wright
    Javy Vazquez (twice)
    Ed Whitson

    Of course there have been successes, which is why free agents are such a tease. Here s a list of free agent starting pitchers who had some success with the Yankees. I'll leave it to you to decide if they were worth the money.

    Roger Clemens (acquired in a trade the first time)
    David Cone (originally acquired in a trade)
    Orlando Hernandez
    Catfish Hunter
    Tommy John
    Jon Lieber
    Mike Mussina
    CC Sabathia (twice)
    Masahiro Tanaka
    David Wellls (acquired in a trade the first time)

    The 2 lists are not comprehensive. Please feel free to add names

    They actually traded for Kevin Brown and Randy Johnson, but your point stands.

    I would add that free-agency can work well - but only if you're pursuing elite starting pitchers under 30-years old.

    Use it to add a missing piece and not as a means of building your rotation - something the Yankees have certainly been guilty of doing in the past.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  4. #4
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 15 Reasons Not to Rebuild a Pitching Staff Through Free Agency

    Rich Gossage
    Luis Tiant
    Phil Niekro
    Jimmy Key

  5. #5

    Re: 15 Reasons Not to Rebuild a Pitching Staff Through Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmers' Helmet View Post
    They actually traded for Kevin Brown and Randy Johnson, but your point stands.

    I would add that free-agency can work well - but only if you're pursuing elite starting pitchers under 30-years old.

    Use it to add a missing piece and not as a means of building your rotation - something the Yankees have certainly been guilty of doing in the past.
    Because of the inability to develop a starting a pitcher. But I agree, no one old. Young young young
    Baseball games are not won with a formula. If you can hit, they will find a place with you

  6. #6

    Re: 15 Reasons Not to Rebuild a Pitching Staff Through Free Agency

    this is a dumb take gramps

  7. #7
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    Re: 15 Reasons Not to Rebuild a Pitching Staff Through Free Agency

    Hiroki Kuroda was one of the best pitchers for the Yankees during his brief time playing for them.

  8. #8

    Re: 15 Reasons Not to Rebuild a Pitching Staff Through Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmers' Helmet View Post
    They actually traded for Kevin Brown and Randy Johnson, but your point stands.

    I would add that free-agency can work well - but only if you're pursuing elite starting pitchers under 30-years old.

    Use it to add a missing piece and not as a means of building your rotation - something the Yankees have certainly been guilty of doing in the past.
    Thanks for the correction. I forgot about those trades.

  9. #9

    Re: 15 Reasons Not to Rebuild a Pitching Staff Through Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Rich Gossage
    Luis Tiant
    Phil Niekro
    Jimmy Key
    Thanks for the adds. We could make another list of relievers like Goose.

  10. #10

    Re: 15 Reasons Not to Rebuild a Pitching Staff Through Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmers' Helmet View Post
    They actually traded for Kevin Brown and Randy Johnson
    They also traded for Irabu and Vazquez (twice). Neither one was a free agent signing. Also, despite being a signing that ended up being bad on the back end, they don't win in '09 without Burnett.

    Basically what this arbitrary list of players shows is that sometimes you trade for/sign good pitchers. Sometimes you trade for/sign bad pitchers. Maybe the rule should just be "get pitchers who are good"

  11. #11
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    Re: 15 Reasons Not to Rebuild a Pitching Staff Through Free Agency

    Signing players via free agency period is a bad way to rebuild a team. Signing free agents are done to compliment a base, not create it.
    SJW - bad attempt at insulting people that care about other's rights and not just their own.

  12. #12

    Re: 15 Reasons Not to Rebuild a Pitching Staff Through Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by fightingirish595 View Post
    Because of the inability to develop a starting a pitcher. But I agree, no one old. Young young young
    We could make a list of pitching stars in their 20's who weren't able to live up to their big contracts after signing them. Start with these guys.

    Johan Santana
    Barry Zito
    Mike Hampton
    Matt Cain
    Tim Lincecum
    Carl Pavano
    Javy Vazquez

  13. #13

    Re: 15 Reasons Not to Rebuild a Pitching Staff Through Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    Signing players via free agency period is a bad way to rebuild a team. Signing free agents are done to compliment a base, not create it.
    Exactly
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    We could make a list of pitching stars in their 20's who weren't able to live up to their big contracts after signing them. Start with these guys.

    Johan Santana
    Barry Zito
    Mike Hampton
    Matt Cain
    Tim Lincecum
    Carl Pavano
    Javy Vazquez
    Yes signing players in their 20s doesn't automatically gurantee they will live up to their contracts
    Baseball games are not won with a formula. If you can hit, they will find a place with you

  14. #14
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    Re: 15 Reasons Not to Rebuild a Pitching Staff Through Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    this is a dumb take gramps
    Calmer than you are

    7/30/2017: The day the Minnesota Twins bought a prospect from the New York Yankees.

  15. #15
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    Re: 15 Reasons Not to Rebuild a Pitching Staff Through Free Agency

    I'm guessing we shouldn't bother with Shohei Otani should he be available
    The real reason why the Yankees keep winning is cause the other team can't stop staring at the damn pinstripes

  16. #16
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    Re: 15 Reasons Not to Rebuild a Pitching Staff Through Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by BronxYanks45 View Post
    I'm guessing we shouldn't bother with Shohei Otani should he be available
    Free agent pitchers = bad.

  17. #17
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: 15 Reasons Not to Rebuild a Pitching Staff Through Free Agency

    Who builds a staff through free agency?

  18. #18
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    Re: 15 Reasons Not to Rebuild a Pitching Staff Through Free Agency

    We probably do not win our last three World Series championships without these guys who were all acquired via free agency or trade:

    Roger Clemens
    Mike Mussina
    CC Sabathia (who was fine before they extended his contract)
    Orlando Hernandez
    David Cone
    David Wells

    And as much as I hate them and the team they played for, Pedro Martinez and Curt Schilling worked out pretty well for the Red Sox.

    Point being that most rotations are built through a combination of home grown talent, free agent signings, and trades. It is extremely naive to think you can build 100% home grown rotation.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  19. #19

    Re: 15 Reasons Not to Rebuild a Pitching Staff Through Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMuntz View Post
    We probably do not win our last three World Series championships without these guys who were all acquired via free agency or trade:

    Roger Clemens
    Mike Mussina
    CC Sabathia (who was fine before they extended his contract)
    Orlando Hernandez
    David Cone
    David Wells

    And as much as I hate them and the team they played for, Pedro Martinez and Curt Schilling worked out pretty well for the Red Sox.

    Point being that most rotations are built through a combination of home grown talent, free agent signings, and trades. It is extremely naive to think you can build 100% home grown rotation.
    Look what's happening to the mets right now and look what happened with the Giants with Cain and lincecum. Your post is dead on accurate. Smart decisions have to be made when acquiring players through trade and free agency
    Baseball games are not won with a formula. If you can hit, they will find a place with you

  20. #20
    2009 WORLD CHAMPIONS aeromac76's Avatar
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    Re: 15 Reasons Not to Rebuild a Pitching Staff Through Free Agency

    One question to ponder here..
    Since 1996, when we started our dynasty, the question I would have is this..

    How many homegrown starting pitchers have won a postseason game for us?

    Obviously Andy is one..
    I also think Phil Hughes is on that list.

    I am probably missing someone and am a bit lazy to look things up, but it's not exactly like our starting staffs for all those postseason runs came through our system. It's almost entirely imported.
    I used to think I was crazy... Now I am sure of it..

  21. #21
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    Re: 15 Reasons Not to Rebuild a Pitching Staff Through Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by aeromac76 View Post
    One question to ponder here..
    Since 1996, when we started our dynasty, the question I would have is this..

    How many homegrown starting pitchers have won a postseason game for us?

    Obviously Andy is one..
    I also think Phil Hughes is on that list.

    I am probably missing someone and am a bit lazy to look things up, but it's not exactly like our starting staffs for all those postseason runs came through our system. It's almost entirely imported.
    You can go back to 1976 and ask the same questions.

    Guidry, then comes into play, not many others.
    Equally as calm as ClownPickle ~(+/- 1)

  22. #22
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    Re: 15 Reasons Not to Rebuild a Pitching Staff Through Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by aeromac76 View Post
    One question to ponder here..
    Since 1996, when we started our dynasty, the question I would have is this..

    How many homegrown starting pitchers have won a postseason game for us?

    Obviously Andy is one..
    I also think Phil Hughes is on that list.

    I am probably missing someone and am a bit lazy to look things up, but it's not exactly like our starting staffs for all those postseason runs came through our system. It's almost entirely imported.
    Wang won one in 2006
    Hughes won one in 2010
    Nova won one in 2011
    http://vimel.ru/e6748

  23. #23
    2009 WORLD CHAMPIONS aeromac76's Avatar
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    Re: 15 Reasons Not to Rebuild a Pitching Staff Through Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnybaseball72 View Post
    Wang won one in 2006
    Hughes won one in 2010
    Nova won one in 2011
    So assuming this completes the list, outside of Andy, a team that has 5 titles and a huge amount of postseason games and wins since 1996 has exactly 3 games won by a starting pitcher we developed ourselves..

    Note that I am not knocking our development process or touting it, just making an observation that if we did not go outside the organization for starting pitching, the last 20 years are a lot different and not for the better..
    I used to think I was crazy... Now I am sure of it..

  24. #24

    Re: 15 Reasons Not to Rebuild a Pitching Staff Through Free Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by aeromac76 View Post
    So assuming this completes the list, outside of Andy, a team that has 5 titles and a huge amount of postseason games and wins since 1996 has exactly 3 games won by a starting pitcher we developed ourselves..

    Note that I am not knocking our development process or touting it, just making an observation that if we did not go outside the organization for starting pitching, the last 20 years are a lot different and not for the better..
    i don't think anyone would blame you if you were knocking it. I'd say part of the problem we had in the years we didn't win were that we never developed a starting pitcher. We didn't have anyone come up through our system to help keep that dynasty going (not that that we should win the World Series every year).
    Baseball games are not won with a formula. If you can hit, they will find a place with you

  25. #25

    Re: 15 Reasons Not to Rebuild a Pitching Staff Through Free Agency

    I think OP has a fair point and mostly that is due to the fact that we've just been bad at picking FA Starters.

    However, the Cubs starting rotation last year mostly consisted of free agents acquisitions. Arrieta was a trade, but Hendricks is the only guy that came straight from the farm.

    The D-Backs won with Schilling & Big Unit. Although Schilling was a trade, it still showed that they relied on people outside of the farm.

    I think it really depends though. There's not one answer to building a pitching staff

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