2017 Rule V Eligibility & Draft

[jcarey]

I'd definitely protect McKinney and Cave. Fine with trading them also, but not OK simply losing them to R5.

CC/Pineda/Torreyes/Frazier/Holliday are gone, but could see another DH pickup or Holliday re-signing for another year.

Mitchell and Refsnyder can go, won't lose any sleep over that. Same with Ells and Gardner.

They can make room, but they always seem to carry guys like Refs and Mitchell who are way beyond their expiration dates.

[billyhoyle]

I'd definitely protect McKinney and Cave. Fine with trading them also, but not OK simply losing them to R5.

CC/Pineda/Torreyes/Frazier/Holliday are gone, but could see another DH pickup or Holliday re-signing for another year.

Mitchell and Refsnyder can go, won't lose any sleep over that. Same with Ells and Gardner.

They can make room, but they always seem to carry guys like Refs and Mitchell who are way beyond their expiration dates.

Why do you think Torreyes is gone? I'm not sure that they're ready to bring up Wade as the utility guy yet. Andujar and Torres are both in the plans for the future though, but I didn't think either would be used in the utility role. I guess with the amount of rest the team gets, Gleyber Torres could take over the role and spell Castro/Didi/Andujar in the infield (each of them play 3/4 games)?

[jon abbey]

They need to clear a vet or two who are under contract for 2018, Headley, Gardner, Ellsbury, even Betances, that will open up more room.

I think Wade could be a better version of Torreyes right now, plus he can play all three OF positions in an emergency. Hopefully they don't carry Torreyes that much longer.

Also they need to thin out the Cessa/Mitchell/Gallegos/Shreve/Ramirez batch, they should move at least two of those guys (Gallegos seems especially blocked currently, all the guys in the bigs plus Heller/Holder).

[Donnybaseball72]

They need to clear a vet or two who are under contract for 2018, Headley, Gardner, Ellsbury, even Betances, that will open up more room.

I think Wade could be a better version of Torreyes right now, plus he can play all three OF positions in an emergency. Hopefully they don't carry Torreyes that much longer.

Also they need to thin out the Cessa/Mitchell/Gallegos/Shreve/Ramirez batch, they should move at least two of those guys (Gallegos seems especially blocked currently, all the guys in the bigs plus Heller/Holder).

Sounds like you want to weaken the 25 man roster in order to protect more players. Then a year later you will want the newly protected players removed to protect more in 2018.

Our 40 man roster is pretty strong and deep. Some players may be lost in the Rule 5. I'd rather let that player force the new team to carry them on the 25 man. Usually they don't and return.

How is Gallego blocked? Injuries to relievers happen. In spite of his limited time in the majors he is still a good prospect.

Ramirez has yet to make his MLB debut. You need to be patient with prospects. Otherwise the wind up excelling on other rosters like Goody and Pazos.

[mbn007]

Sounds like a few of you folks are saying dump this one, or that one, etc., and protect all the kids.


AS I posted above, Cave and McKinney are most likely not getting protected. That means, as the team is currently constructed, those 2 are on the outside looking in. We still have Gardner and Ellsbury on the roister. Headley is also still here. Even with all the FA not requiring protection, there still is not enough room. At the present time.


I do expect, and I posted on another thread, that there will be some trades to relieve the 40 man logjam. Someone posted that there could be trades similar to the Gamel or Pazos deals. I agree to this. Cave and McKinney are prime targets for such deals, IMO.

[trapper700]

Yes, 2012 IFA players are eligible this year. 2013 players will be eligible next year.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong here. 2012 IFA players were eligible for the draft last year according to multiple sources, which means that 2013 IFA players signed before September are eligible to be drafted this year - so Gleyber does need to be added to the 40 man (he signed in July 2013).

For this year, that means an international or high school Draft pick signed in 2012 -- assuming he was 18 or younger as of June 5 of that year -- has to be protected. A college player taken in the 2013 Draft is in the same position.

Virtually all international prospects who signed in July or August 2012 will become Rule 5 draft eligible this winter—but not Gohara.

Nov. 18: This is the deadline for teams to add eligible prospects to the 40-man roster to protect them from the Rule 5 Draft. Generally speaking, college players drafted in 2013 and high school players drafted in 2012 are Rule 5 Draft eligible this offseason. Also international free agents signed in 2012. Any eligible players not on the 40-man roster can be selected in the Rule 5 Draft.

[rpimpsner]

I'm pretty sure you're wrong here. 2012 IFA players were eligible for the draft last year according to multiple sources, which means that 2013 IFA players signed before September are eligible to be drafted this year - so Gleyber does need to be added to the 40 man (he signed in July 2013).

Pretty sure you are confusing calendar year with the contract year. 2012 IFA players signed 2013 player contracts, 2013 IFA players signed 2014 player contracts etc. Which is why they are not eligible to play until the next season. Also, gotta remember if a player is 19 years old or older when they sign they are eligible after 4 years, under 19 years old they have 5 years until they are eligible.

Example: Thairo Estrada is part of the 2012 international free agent class (July 2, 2012 - July 1, 2013) signed as a 16-year old kid (just like Torres) is eligible for the Rule 5 for the first time this season because he has completed his fifth MiLB season.

Torres also signed as a 16 yr old kid on July 2, 2013, which means he will have to have five seasons past before he is eligible for the Rule 5 draft. This will be only his fourth season.

[trapper700]

Pretty sure you are confusing calendar year with the contract year. 2012 IFA players signed 2013 player contracts, 2013 IFA players signed 2014 player contracts etc. Which is why they are not eligible to play until the next season. Also, gotta remember if a player is 19 years old or older when they sign they are eligible after 4 years, under 19 years old they have 5 years until they are eligible.

Example: Thairo Estrada is part of the 2012 international free agent class (July 2, 2012 - July 1, 2013) signed as a 16-year old kid (just like Torres) is eligible for the Rule 5 for the first time this season because he has completed his fifth MiLB season.

Torres also signed as a 16 yr old kid on July 2, 2013, which means he will have to have five seasons past before he is eligible for the Rule 5 draft. This will be only his fourth season.

I think this is what you're confused about. International free agents count against that first year of "pro ball" when they sign, despite not actually playing that same year (like you said, they're not eligible to). The calendar year that they sign their contract is what matters for the Rule 5, not the years of actually having played while under that contract. That's why 2013 IFAs are eligible for the rule 5 draft this year, as long as they signed before that August 31st cutoff - which is almost all of them, including Gleyber Torres.

Here's an article that explains it better:

The counting begins the day a player signs his first pro contract. Prior to the new CBA signed in October 2006, the counting began the effective date or the contract and not the season it was signed. This all changed with the new CBA as the counting starts the day they sign per the following change in the CBA (this is from a note I received from MLB):

“We have changed MLR 5(c)(1) so that this period begins to run with the applicable season in which the Player signs his first Major League or Minor League Contract, as opposed to the first effective season of the Player’s first contract.”

This applies to International signees as well. Rule 5 eligibility counts the year the player signs up until the end of the International Signing Period on August 31st. These players are not eligible to play in the same year they sign, but nonetheless the year still counts as their first development year. Players signed from September 1st to December 31st start their "count" the following year.

For example, a player signed at 16 years of age on August 5, 2009 would be Rule 5 eligible in 2013 (2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013), whereas a player signed at 16 years of age on November 17th, 2009 would be Rule 5 eligible in 2014 (2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014). Also, as an example, a college draft pick who signed on August 30th, 2006 with a 2007 contract effective date is still Rule 5 eligible in 2009 (2006, 2007, 2008, 2009).

[trapper700]

Also Thairo Estrada is only eligible for the Rule 5 this year because he was signed in November of 2012 (not July as you've stated), so he was past that August 31st cutoff.

Luis Torrens was signed on July 2, 2012 and he was eligible to be taken by the Reds (then traded to Padres) in last year's Rule 5.

[rpimpsner]

Also Thairo Estrada is only eligible for the Rule 5 this year because he was signed in November of 2012 (not July as you've stated), so he was past that August 31st cutoff.

Luis Torrens was signed on July 2, 2012, and he was eligible to be taken by the Reds (then traded to Padres) in last year's Rule 5.

Thairo Estrada signed by the Yankees on August 2, 2012, so if there was an August 31 cut off then he would have been eligible last year.

[trapper700]

Thairo Estrada signed by the Yankees on August 2, 2012, so if there was an August 31 cut off then he would have been eligible last year.

Then how do you explain Torrens being available last year if he was the same class?

https://pinstripedprospects.com/yank...-estrada-11719

Signed in November 2012 as an international free agent for $49,000 along with higher touted prospects Jorge Mateo and Luis Torrens, infielder Thairo Estrada is slowly emerging as one of the most unheralded members of the Yankees farm system after conquering short-season ball as one of the youngest members of the New York-Penn League in 2015 at the age of 19.

[jon abbey]

Don't forget Pinder. Unless he is a 6 year minor league FA.

Pinder just got released.

[Yankyfan]

Pinder just got released.

PP reporting McNamara traded to SF...

[Donnybaseball72]

Watch Pinder be next seasons Pazos or Goody. Has he even given up a run this year?

[Yankyfan]

Watch Pinder be next seasons Pazos or Goody. Has he even given up a run this year?

Yep, a little strange i agree. We re hab him, he pitches well, and we release him? Last outing I saw he was 95-96 with downward movement. Maybe he requested the move so he can sign in Japan?

[Donnybaseball72]

Yep, a little strange i agree. We re hab him, he pitches well, and we release him? Last outing I saw he was 95-96 with downward movement. Maybe he requested the move so he can sign in Japan?

With his numbers I don't see why another MLB wouldn't sign him and call him up.

[Yankyfan]

With his numbers I don't see why another MLB wouldn't sign him and call him up.

Could happen

[BomberBrian]

I know it was reported he was released, but the milb.com transactions show him being placed on the Temporary Inactive List on 7/21 and nothing since.

Might be more to the story than the Yankees simply don't want him.

[Yankyfan]

I know it was reported he was released, but the milb.com transactions show him being placed on the Temporary Inactive List on 7/21 and nothing since.

Might be more to the story than the Yankees simply don't want him.

Interesting...

[TheHugeUnit2]

Watch Pinder be next seasons Pazos or Goody. Has he even given up a run this year?

I'll give you Goody but Pazos isn't anything that great. He started the season lights out and he's been alright since.

[groundhoggator]

With today's Garcia trade - Littell (rule V candidate) & Enns (potential 40 man DFA) have opened up space for this offseason and trimmed the space needed for Rule V candidates.

[jon abbey]

Yeah, it's still fairly crowded, though, and new candidates continue to emerge, Jake Cave and Stephen Tarpley are two who have raised their stock recently, McKinney too. I will post an update of my 7/19 list after the trading deadline.

[Donnybaseball72]

One trend I have noticed on this board is a pattern of calling for the protected class of 2016 to be booted off after only 4 months. This included Gallegos, German, Enns (prior to being traded), Ramirez. Oddly no one has mentioned Higgy as a possible 40 man roster cut casualty as he has been all but useless this season. My question is why do we want to give up on these guys who the team moved mountains to protect back in November so quickly? Is the protected class of 2017 that much better? What happens when the new guys struggle in 2018? Will fans want them 86’ed off the 40 man to make room for the protected class of 2018?

It just seems 4 months is not nearly enough time to evaluate which players to keep considering how long Mason William and Refsnyder lasted on the 40 man roster. I understand room will be made so Higgy is the only PCO 2016 I would try to slip past waivers. I’d also move Heller before any other pitcher currently on the 40 man roster

[jon abbey]

Every player is an individual situation, lumping them together as the 'class of ????' just confuses things. And no one 'moved mountains' in November to do anything, you protect the 40 guys who make the most sense each winter.

Also you can't leave Higashioka unprotected because there is pretty much zero catcher depth in the organization behind Sanchez/Romine/him, this is where losing Torrens hurts.

[mbn007]

Every player is an individual situation, lumping them together as the 'class of ????' just confuses things. And no one 'moved mountains' in November to do anything, you protect the 40 guys who make the most sense each winter.

Also you can't leave Higashioka unprotected because there is pretty much zero catcher depth in the organization behind Sanchez/Romine/him, this is where losing Torrens hurts.

Agree on your take on Higgy.


Right now, the next Catcher in line after Higgy is either whatever is going on in AAA today, or Saez from AA. Sands has started hitting the past 40 games or so, but I do not know if his receiving issues are resolved yet. Probably will take quite a bit of time, so he's likely not an option for NY for another couple of seasons.