View Poll Results: 90's/2000's Dynasty MVP

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  • Mariano Rivera

    17 27.87%
  • Derek Jeter

    12 19.67%
  • Bernie Williams

    28 45.90%
  • Paul O'Neill

    3 4.92%
  • OTHER (Specify)

    1 1.64%
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  1. #26
    NYYF Legend

    mbn007's Avatar
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    Re: Who was the Yankees MVP during the 90's/2000's Dynasty run?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    It was Bernie Williams and it isn't really close.
    Agree 100%. Mo was great, but the Yankees needed a lead in the late innings for him to do his thing. Bernie was the constant for almost all the great seasons during that time.

  2. #27

    Re: Who was the Yankees MVP during the 90's/2000's Dynasty run?

    Quote Originally Posted by theDurk View Post
    True. But without Bernie's consistent production the Yanks didn't make it that far.
    I think you can make that argument for everyone. I'm sure our best players all had key moments. I don't think Bernie is a wrong answer. I just think when it comes playoff time, a bullpen is so important, how many times does a team lose a game late because the pen can't get the job done.
    Baseball games are not won with a formula

  3. #28

    Re: Who was the Yankees MVP during the 90's/2000's Dynasty run?

    It was definitely Bernie. Mo and Jeter had longevity over him, but during the dynasty nobody was better.

  4. #29

    Re: Who was the Yankees MVP during the 90's/2000's Dynasty run?

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    A closer?

    There are about 1450 innings in a season (give or take, extra innings, rain shortened games, etc). Rivera averaged 78 innings per year, or about 5.4% of the innings.


    As great as he was, a guy who played just over 5% of the time can't be the MVP of the time period.
    There's one big thing you guys are ignoring, we're not just talking about any Closer here, we're not even talking about a dominant Closer or one of the best to ever do it. We're talking about the universally accepted GOAT. Even Yankee haters, even most Red Sox fans, will reluctantly concede that Mariano is the GOAT. So we're basically talking about the Babe Ruth of Closers.

    There was nobody else on that dynasty team who could claim to be the GOAT at their respective positions.

    JUST ONE ... Mariano.
    "Owning the Yankees is like owning the Mona Lisa." -- George M. Steinbrenner III

  5. #30

    Re: Who was the Yankees MVP during the 90's/2000's Dynasty run?

    Quote Originally Posted by Battingly View Post
    There's one big thing you guys are ignoring, we're not just talking about any Closer here, we're not even talking about a dominant Closer or one of the best to ever do it. We're talking about the universally accepted GOAT. Even Yankee haters, even most Red Sox fans, will reluctantly concede that Mariano is the GOAT. So we're basically talking about the Babe Ruth of Closers.

    There was nobody else on that dynasty team who could claim to be the GOAT at their respective positions.

    JUST ONE ... Mariano.
    Who knows what would've happened in those games he saved or game 6 in 96 when he threw 2 shut out innings to set up wetteland. What if the braves had Mariano as the closer in 96? Anyone think that series might be different?
    Baseball games are not won with a formula

  6. #31

    Re: Who was the Yankees MVP during the 90's/2000's Dynasty run?

    Quote Originally Posted by Battingly View Post
    There's one big thing you guys are ignoring, we're not just talking about any Closer here, we're not even talking about a dominant Closer or one of the best to ever do it. We're talking about the universally accepted GOAT. Even Yankee haters, even most Red Sox fans, will reluctantly concede that Mariano is the GOAT. So we're basically talking about the Babe Ruth of Closers.

    There was nobody else on that dynasty team who could claim to be the GOAT at their respective positions.

    JUST ONE ... Mariano.
    This is true of course. But remember that the rest of the team had to do their collective part so that Mo could do what he could do. He was DEPENDENT upon the rest of the team doing their job. Bernie, Jeter, Tino, Paulie, Andy, etc., etc., could not sit back and let Mo close the game out. Everyone had to do their part (including Mo) in order to win those championships. I don't know how you single out any one piece of the puzzle.

  7. #32

    Re: Who was the Yankees MVP during the 90's/2000's Dynasty run?

    Quote Originally Posted by fightingirish595 View Post
    Who knows what would've happened in those games he saved or game 6 in 96 when he threw 2 shut out innings to set up wetteland. What if the braves had Mariano as the closer in 96? Anyone think that series might be different?
    Exactly, and for the record, I think Mariano, as a SETUP MAN, was the real MVP of the 96 WS, the first one to kickoff the dynasty.

    You can make an argument for Leyritz too, but IMO the MVP of that WS, the absolute difference maker, was Mariano. You put him on the Braves and we definitely lose that World Series.
    "Owning the Yankees is like owning the Mona Lisa." -- George M. Steinbrenner III

  8. #33

    Re: Who was the Yankees MVP during the 90's/2000's Dynasty run?

    We probably lose in 5 in 01 if the DBacks have Rivera. Having a guy who can do what he did for that long in those high pressure situations is so rare. 19 saves from 96-2000 in the post season. I wonder how many of those games would've been different if he wasn't on the team. But that doesn't necessarily mean if some of them would different the entire series would be. I do think 96 and 01(even though we lost that one anyway), would've looked very different if Mariano was on the other team, which I think is fair in showing his value. Having a guy that's as close to a sure thing in the 9th inning of a playoff game when the other team doesn't is a tremendous advantage.

    Even 2000 is an interesting case. I wonder how that one looks if Mariano is on the mets. Every single one of those games was down to the wire. Benitez was a bum
    Baseball games are not won with a formula

  9. #34

    Re: Who was the Yankees MVP during the 90's/2000's Dynasty run?

    I think it's clearly Bernie. Wrt to the HOF, he was 1-2 more good years short of being a HOF'er. Had they won the WS against the Marlins he clearly would've been the MVP, so that also could have put him over the top.

  10. #35

    Re: Who was the Yankees MVP during the 90's/2000's Dynasty run?

    I think Mariano was the post-season mvp of that run, but not the overall mvp, if that makes sense. If, once we were in the post-season, you took one player off the roster, I think removing Mo would have had the biggest negative impact. But removing Bernie or Jeter from the teams altogether would have cost us more playoff opportunities to begin with than removing Mo.

    I think I go with Bernie.

  11. #36

    Re: Who was the Yankees MVP during the 90's/2000's Dynasty run?

    Bernie, not close.

    After him, Mo and Pettitte.

    Then Jeter and Posada

  12. #37
    NYYF Legend

    ymike673's Avatar
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    Re: Who was the Yankees MVP during the 90's/2000's Dynasty run?

    To me the choice is between Bernie and Jeter. Mo might be the greatest closer of all time but that's only because Bernie, Jeter and company got him the lead. I went with Bernie over Jeter because for the time period of this poll Bernie was the best player on the team. And his post season stats were great.

  13. #38
    crescat scientia awy's Avatar
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    Re: Who was the Yankees MVP during the 90's/2000's Dynasty run?

    by WAR etc jeter's ahead of bernie by quite a bit.
    always reasonable

    Aaron Judge Career Homer #8
    http://m.mlb.com/video/v1294788283/s...-to-deep-right

  14. #39
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    Re: Who was the Yankees MVP during the 90's/2000's Dynasty run?

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    by WAR etc jeter's ahead of bernie by quite a bit.
    That's another beef I have with WAR.

    Look I'm not trying to dis Jeter, he was a great player, a great contributor and clear hall of famer but over the dynasty years he always seemed a distant 2nd to me to Bernie over that period except for his one year where he maybe should have won the MVP.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  15. #40
    crescat scientia awy's Avatar
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    Re: Who was the Yankees MVP during the 90's/2000's Dynasty run?

    i mean yea bernie had more power and had a lot of key hits, but in terms of value i guess jeter was higher
    always reasonable

    Aaron Judge Career Homer #8
    http://m.mlb.com/video/v1294788283/s...-to-deep-right

  16. #41

    Re: Who was the Yankees MVP during the 90's/2000's Dynasty run?

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    i mean yea bernie had more power and had a lot of key hits, but in terms of value i guess jeter was higher
    War over values defense
    Baseball games are not won with a formula

  17. #42
    crescat scientia awy's Avatar
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    Re: Who was the Yankees MVP during the 90's/2000's Dynasty run?

    uh that's not really true. the royals won with a lot of defense war. seems pretty legit.

    defense metrics are getting much better with player vector tracking etc. it's pretty legit right now
    always reasonable

    Aaron Judge Career Homer #8
    http://m.mlb.com/video/v1294788283/s...-to-deep-right

  18. #43

    Re: Who was the Yankees MVP during the 90's/2000's Dynasty run?

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    by WAR etc jeter's ahead of bernie by quite a bit.
    By quite a bit? For the dynasty years (1996-2000), the bWAR totals for the two are:

    Jeter -- 28.3
    Bernie - 26.3

    But the seasons are played one at a time and Bernie was the more consistent of the two. As a result, he had the higher WAR 3 of the 5 years. You can use WAR to support either argument, depending on which way you want to go.

  19. #44

    Re: Who was the Yankees MVP during the 90's/2000's Dynasty run?

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    uh that's not really true. the royals won with a lot of defense war. seems pretty legit.

    defense metrics are getting much better with player vector tracking etc. it's pretty legit right now
    The problem with defensive metrics is that they treat defense as if it's a collection of individual accomplishments. when the reality is that it's a really a collaborative effort.

  20. #45

    Re: Who was the Yankees MVP during the 90's/2000's Dynasty run?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    The problem with defensive metrics is that they treat defense as if it's a collection of individual accomplishments. when the reality is that it's a really a collaborative effort.
    Defense in baseball is pitching. My problem with war is it individualizes everything too much
    Baseball games are not won with a formula

  21. #46
    crescat scientia awy's Avatar
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    Re: Who was the Yankees MVP during the 90's/2000's Dynasty run?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    By quite a bit? For the dynasty years (1996-2000), the bWAR totals for the two are:

    Jeter -- 28.3
    Bernie - 26.3

    But the seasons are played one at a time and Bernie was the more consistent of the two. As a result, he had the higher WAR 3 of the 5 years. You can use WAR to support either argument, depending on which way you want to go.
    uh you gotta look at both their primes. i looked at fangraphs war
    always reasonable

    Aaron Judge Career Homer #8
    http://m.mlb.com/video/v1294788283/s...-to-deep-right

  22. #47

    Re: Who was the Yankees MVP during the 90's/2000's Dynasty run?

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    uh you gotta look at both their primes. I looked at fangraphs war
    but players decline after 26 remember
    Baseball games are not won with a formula

  23. #48
    Legend DJ27's Avatar
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    Re: Who was the Yankees MVP during the 90's/2000's Dynasty run?

    I LOVE Jeter but Mo was the MVP.
    Speak softly but carry a big stick.

  24. #49
    Do not vex me mortal Hitman23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ27 View Post
    I LOVE Jeter but Mo was the MVP.
    Statistically the dude was beyond dominant. He became the best there ever was.

    My issue with selecting Mariano is that he had an impact on one inning each game. I am not knocking the guy, I would never. But he had a specific job, did it better than anyone else and for more years than most players do it even just on a satisfactory level. And I could comfortably say that most likely this team does not have the success it did without him. Plus, he was an outstanding human being and team mate.

    But my problem is one inning. The team needed to score runs and keep the other team from scoring more in order for Mo to get into the game. His position relied on too many variables.

    Again, this is not a knock. I loved Mo. I never left early in hopes of seeing him. The greatest of all time. But I can't choose him as the dynasty MVP.

  25. #50
    NYYF Cy Young

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    Re: Who was the Yankees MVP during the 90's/2000's Dynasty run?

    I am going to go with Bernie. Jeter had better overall stats but when he was at his career peak Bernie was good so many things. And he was the heart of an order that could beat you in some many different ways.
    When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it."

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