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  1. #51
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    Thumbs up Re: Do the the new big bats change Cash's plan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Data doesn't really support that. Data does support getting into post season gives you a shot at winning it all if your team gets hot for the right 3 weeks.

    Here are the WS winners since 2010 and how they finished in their own league in runs scored and runs allowed for the regular season

    Year - Team - RS - RA
    2016 Cubs - 2 - 1
    2015 Royals - 6 - 3
    2014 Giants - 5 - 7
    2013 Red Sux - 1 - 6
    2012 Giants 6 - 5
    2011 Cards 1 - 8
    2010 Giants 9 - 1
    VERY good research. This is the kind of post "the folks back home" seek. This is the kind of post that makes this place famous. This is why guests read this forum. Well, and of course, to follow me. I'm good for an extra couple thousand viewers myself!

  2. #52
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: Do the the new big bats change Cash's plan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Retired_Doc View Post
    VERY good research. This is the kind of post "the folks back home" seek. This is the kind of post that makes this place famous. This is why guests read this forum. Well, and of course, to follow me. I'm good for an extra couple thousand viewers myself!
    Looks like delirium has set in.

  3. #53

    Re: Do the the new big bats change Cash's plan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    And 4 of them have finished 5th or lower in their league in runs allowed.

    Which is why the Dodgers have won so many world series with the best pitcher on the planet?

    I get that you need pitching, but you also need offense. Teams that have bashed their opponents have won the WS as often as teams that out pitch their opponents. When you have both you tend to steamroll the competition, a lot.
    I never said you don't need offense. In fact, I said you need enough offense. The issue is whether the team needs to sign Harper if it already has a very good offense. There comes a time of diminishing returns. The Yankees should know that better than anyone.

    Where they finished in runs allowed during the regular season is not a measure of how good their pitching is going into the postseason. With a shorter rotation and deeper bullpen, it's a different game in the postseason. I already explained that.

    As for the Dodgers with the best pitcher on the planet, pitching and defense are not a one-man effort.

  4. #54
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    Re: Do the the new big bats change Cash's plan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    I never said you don't need offense. In fact, I said you need enough offense. The issue is whether the team needs to sign Harper if it already has a very good offense. There comes a time of diminishing returns. The Yankees should know that better than anyone.

    Where they finished in runs allowed during the regular season is not a measure of how good their pitching is going into the postseason. With a shorter rotation and deeper bullpen, it's a different game in the postseason. I already explained that.

    As for the Dodgers with the best pitcher on the planet, pitching and defense are not a one-man effort.
    Billy, So, so on point IMO.

  5. #55

    Re: Do the the new big bats change Cash's plan?

    offense is actually synergistic. each great hitter in ur lineup adds on more runs than the last

  6. #56
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    Re: Do the the new big bats change Cash's plan?

    Calling the Dodgers a one-man effort pitching-wise is pretty off. Kershaw has always had quality arms around him (Greinke, Maeda, Ryu, Billingsley, etc.). What the Dodgers exemplify is the fact that the playoffs come down to the hottest team, not the best team necessarily. Yes, a team like the Giants seems to indicate that a pitching outweighs hitting in the playoffs--but, even with them, it's hard to imagine they'd have those postseason runs without Sandoval, Posey, Cody Ross in 2010, Hunter Pence in 2014. Timely hitting is every bit as important as pitching.

  7. #57

    Re: Do the the new big bats change Cash's plan?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaBliz View Post
    Calling the Dodgers a one-man effort pitching-wise is pretty off. Kershaw has always had quality arms around him (Greinke, Maeda, Ryu, Billingsley, etc.). What the Dodgers exemplify is the fact that the playoffs come down to the hottest team, not the best team necessarily. Yes, a team like the Giants seems to indicate that a pitching outweighs hitting in the playoffs--but, even with them, it's hard to imagine they'd have those postseason runs without Sandoval, Posey, Cody Ross in 2010, Hunter Pence in 2014. Timely hitting is every bit as important as pitching.
    The Dodgers are a perfect example of why statistics can be misleading. Like the Mets, their pitching numbers always look better than than their pitching actually is because they play in one of the most favorable environments in all of baseball for pitchers.

    As for timely hitting, I completely agree. I've said that a team needs enough hitting, it needs to be very good. But timely hitting doesn't particularly mean mashers who hit the ball over the fence. A team needs the pitching to stop those mashers or they will get killed. It's the team that has that kind of pitching and has enough hitting to get to the other team's pitchers that will win.

    To believe that it just comes down to who's hot, you have to believe that the Giants. Just got hot 3 out of 5 years, or that the Yankees just got hot 4 of 5 years and then went cold for most of a decade after that. I don't dispute that. Getting hot at the right time helps, but some teams are better constructed to do that in the postseason than others. Said another way, luck is the child of preparation.

  8. #58

    Re: Do the the new big bats change Cash's plan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    The Dodgers are a perfect example of why statistics can be misleading. Like the Mets, their pitching numbers always look better than than their pitching actually is because they play in one of the most favorable environments in all of baseball for pitchers.

    As for timely hitting, I completely agree. I've said that a team needs enough hitting, it needs to be very good. But timely hitting doesn't particularly mean mashers who hit the ball over the fence. A team needs the pitching to stop those mashers or they will get killed. It's the team that has that kind of pitching and has enough hitting to get to the other team's pitchers that will win.

    To believe that it just comes down to who's hot, you have to believe that the Giants. Just got hot 3 out of 5 years, or that the Yankees just got hot 4 of 5 years and then went cold for most of a decade after that. I don't dispute that. Getting hot at the right time helps, but some teams are better constructed to do that in the postseason than others. Said another way, luck is the child of preparation.
    And signing Harper increases that "luck" significantly.
    Hideki Matsui is capable of anything

  9. #59
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    Re: Do the the new big bats change Cash's plan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    I never said you don't need offense. In fact, I said you need enough offense. The issue is whether the team needs to sign Harper if it already has a very good offense. There comes a time of diminishing returns. The Yankees should know that better than anyone.

    Where they finished in runs allowed during the regular season is not a measure of how good their pitching is going into the postseason. With a shorter rotation and deeper bullpen, it's a different game in the postseason. I already explained that.

    As for the Dodgers with the best pitcher on the planet, pitching and defense are not a one-man effort.
    If it's a choice between adding an ACE level arm OR adding Harper I'll take the ACE level arm too.

    But honestly the team that gets a hot pitcher (or three IN OCTOBER) or a team that gets a few bats that carry them is generally the team that WINS the WS.

    And along the way you sometimes need Barry Zito to throw a G5 gem to save your season or beat a pitcher 1-0 who throws a 1 hitter against you in an elimination game to win a WS.

    What you want is the best collection of talent to get you into the October dance and preferably as one of the division winners now that the WC game is a coin flip.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  10. #60

    Re: Do the the new big bats change Cash's plan?

    hitting for power is one of the most influential things you could do in baseball.

    you can't go wrong with that for the postseason.

  11. #61
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    Re: Do the the new big bats change Cash's plan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Said another way, luck is the child of preparation.
    Fun fact about "luck". In 1996 Kenny Rogers appeared in 4 post season games for the Yankees that season.

    He worked a tidy 7 IP allowing 15 runs on 15 hits and 6 walks for a sterling 14.14 ERA and 3.0 WHIP!

    Guess what the Yanks were 4-0 in those games!

    Rogers was one of the worst post season pitchers ever until suddenly he wasn't throwing 23 consecutive scoreless innings for the 2006 Tigers. You just never know who is going to get hot in October.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  12. #62

    Re: Do the the new big bats change Cash's plan?

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    hitting for power is one of the most influential things you could do in baseball.

    you can't go wrong with that for the postseason.
    True. But HRs are usually hit off pitchers' mistakes. With better pitching in the postseason, it's harder to hit HRs and the guys who hit them are often a surprise, not necessarily the team's big power hitter(s).

  13. #63

    Re: Do the the new big bats change Cash's plan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    True. But HRs are usually hit off pitchers' mistakes. With better pitching in the postseason, it's harder to hit HRs and the guys who hit them are often a surprise, not necessarily the team's big power hitter(s).
    I think the year was 2012, the New York Yankees were the best team at hitting homeruns. But they couldn't score any other way. That reared its ugly head in the playoffs. I want homeruns but you have to be able to string together hits too. You need pitching and bullpen. It's still the same game in the playoffs just harder because the teams are better
    Baseball games are not won with a formula. If you can hit, they will find a place with you

  14. #64
    Brien "The Incident" just-blaze's Avatar
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    Re: Do the the new big bats change Cash's plan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Fun fact about "luck". In 1996 Kenny Rogers appeared in 4 post season games for the Yankees that season.

    He worked a tidy 7 IP allowing 15 runs on 15 hits and 6 walks for a sterling 14.14 ERA and 3.0 WHIP!

    Guess what the Yanks were 4-0 in those games!

    Rogers was one of the worst post season pitchers ever until suddenly he wasn't throwing 23 consecutive scoreless innings for the 2006 Tigers. You just never know who is going to get hot in October.
    Or when they take uppers before a game and put some tar on their hat.

    Either or.

  15. #65

    Re: Do the the new big bats change Cash's plan?

    Quote Originally Posted by fightingirish595 View Post
    I think the year was 2012, the New York Yankees were the best team at hitting homeruns. But they couldn't score any other way. That reared its ugly head in the playoffs. I want homeruns but you have to be able to string together hits too. You need pitching and bullpen. It's still the same game in the playoffs just harder because the teams are better
    Irish, it seems to me that pitching is managed completely differently in the postseason.

  16. #66

    Re: Do the the new big bats change Cash's plan?

    it's a myth that it's harder to score on homers than singles in the playoffs.

    there are certain bad hitters who get exploited in the playoffs, but good hitters still are dangerous, mainly because of the homerun.

    a homerun is just a well hit ball that's not banged into the ground. it's obvious that you want your well hit balls to be hit further and higher.

    no slaphitting team has ever won

  17. #67

    Re: Do the the new big bats change Cash's plan?

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    it's a myth that it's harder to score on homers than singles in the playoffs.

    there are certain bad hitters who get exploited in the playoffs, but good hitters still are dangerous, mainly because of the homerun.

    a homerun is just a well hit ball that's not banged into the ground. it's obvious that you want your well hit balls to be hit further and higher.

    no slaphitting team has ever won
    The '82 Cardinals say, "Hello."

  18. #68

    Re: Do the the new big bats change Cash's plan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    The '82 Cardinals say, "Hello."
    before i was born, so didn't exist.

  19. #69
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    Re: Do the the new big bats change Cash's plan?

    [QUOTE=awy;8283796

    no slaphitting team has ever won[/QUOTE]
    2015 Royals were close to a slap-hitting team. Always running around the bases, excellent defense, working the opposing Pitchers, etc.

  20. #70

    Re: Do the the new big bats change Cash's plan?

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    before i was born, so didn't exist.
    Good rebuttal.

    They were an example off the top of my head. Someone else mentioned the recent Royals as another example.

    Given that the steroid era occupied most of the baseball history that you've lived through, I can see why you'd see things the way you do.

  21. #71

    Re: Do the the new big bats change Cash's plan?

    royals scored high % of their runs on homers. bad example


    examples that support my point, vast majority of good offensive teams
    counterexamples that support my point, all ................ty offensive teams

  22. #72
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    Re: Do the the new big bats change Cash's plan?

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    royals scored high % of their runs on homers. bad example

    But, they played like a typical small-ball team. Scrappy, run the bases well, always look to take the extra base, solid defense and pitching. They didn't need to sit and wait for Earl Weaver's favorite hit - a 3-run HR. They would manufacture a run themselves.


    Similar to the 1990s Yankees. Not at all like the 2000s Yankees.

  23. #73

    Re: Do the the new big bats change Cash's plan?

    the smallball stuff is a distraction on offense. they really won on defense and bullpen. teams that have high power tend to see lower decrease in offense come postseason time

  24. #74
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    Re: Do the the new big bats change Cash's plan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    The '82 Cardinals say, "Hello."
    They also built a team to maximize that astroturf (speed, stellar IF defense, McGee in CF) as well as had stellar SP (Sutter throwing 100+ IP as the closer didn't hurt matters either)...
    If money is a science, then it is a dark science...it has gone on developing...by its own rules. Neal Stephenson, Quicksilver

  25. #75

    Re: Do the the new big bats change Cash's plan?

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    the smallball stuff is a distraction on offense. they really won on defense and bullpen. teams that have high power tend to see lower decrease in offense come postseason time
    Not trying to argue the point, but do you have anyone's analysis of postseason offense to back up that claim?

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