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  1. #26

    Re: Don't fall in love with Matt Holliday

    This is a pretty awesome thread.

  2. #27
    Brien "The Incident" just-blaze's Avatar
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    Re: Don't fall in love with Matt Holliday

    Didn't he just hit a 3 run walkoff HR recently?

    Is that not "clutch"?

  3. #28
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    Re: Don't fall in love with Matt Holliday

    No offense, but this thread is weak.

  4. #29

    Re: Don't fall in love with Matt Holliday

    Quote Originally Posted by just-blaze View Post
    Didn't he just hit a 3 run walkoff HR recently?

    Is that not "clutch"?
    Of course he did. And didn't he get a big walk off hit a couple of weeks ago? That's why I'm giving you guys a heads up! He may not get another big hit 'till June, and the fans in the Bronx are gonna give him hell.






    Trust me.

  5. #30
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Don't fall in love with Matt Holliday

    Quote Originally Posted by str8carter View Post
    I admit when I looked at his career stats I was surprised...better than I expected. But since 2010 the eye test says otherwise. When you watch a guy fail in the clutch on a nightly basis it dawns on you that Holliday feasts in games that the team scores 12 runs. He destroys bad pitching.

    I said that he never lead the team in any positive stat. I will amend that: 2 years ago Matt Adams was leading the team in RBI with 84 I believe in August. He went down for the season and it took Matt a month to catch up! Other than that single stat he never lead in anything.

    Since the departure of Pujols all the team leading stats go to Berkman, Beltran, Molina and Matt Carpenter.

    To the poster that cried SOUR GRAPES; trust me...I have been down on MH and La Russa and Pujols and Matheny for YEARS on various forums. (Please don't let me get started on Pujols!)

    He had a monster season in 2010 - HOF caliber - and a fine one in 2011. He had Pujols on the same team, so what if he didn't lead the team (except in doubles)?


    In 2012, he led the team in hits, runs, doubles, RBIs, walks, OPS, OPS+, WAR. But nothing positive, and never when it counted, of course.


    2013, 2014: OPS, OPS+


    You want to run Matt Holliday down, fine. But, honestly, criticizing his hitting isn't the way to do it.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  6. #31
    First Name: Keninovich hardrain's Avatar
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    Re: Don't fall in love with Matt Holliday

    "It is better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all."
    - Alfred Lord Tennyson
    Standings: Big Inning 32-16; Blue Cut 27-21; Shoo Fly 26-22; Husk 22-26; Frank Pierce 21-27; Iowa City 16-32.

  7. #32
    Pinpoint False1's Avatar
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    Re: Don't fall in love with Matt Holliday

    Quote Originally Posted by str8carter View Post
    trust me...I have been down on MH
    Did he leave without saying goodbye or something?

  8. #33

    Re: Don't fall in love with Matt Holliday

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    He had a monster season in 2010 - HOF caliber - and a fine one in 2011. He had Pujols on the same team, so what if he didn't lead the team (except in doubles)?


    In 2012, he led the team in hits, runs, doubles, RBIs, walks, OPS, OPS+, WAR. But nothing positive, and never when it counted, of course.


    2013, 2014: OPS, OPS+


    You want to run Matt Holliday down, fine. But, honestly, criticizing his hitting isn't the way to do it.
    You have sited 4 of the nine years he played in St. Louis. Name me another "HOF type player" that was BENCHED in perfect health in the 6th game of the WS (2011) by a manager that hated to eat crow. Check his post season stats. Light hitting Kosma and Dirty Dan Descalso out hit him for Chrissakes.

    Best kept secret in baseball: Holliday is a pumped, up post HGH bum. And god knows he ain't the only one doing that stuff around the leagues (You listening Albert?)

  9. #34
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Don't fall in love with Matt Holliday

    Quote Originally Posted by str8carter View Post
    You have sited 4 of the nine years he played in St. Louis. Name me another "HOF type player" that was BENCHED in perfect health in the 6th game of the WS (2011) by a manager that hated to eat crow. Check his post season stats. Light hitting Kosma and Dirty Dan Descalso out hit him for Chrissakes.

    Best kept secret in baseball: Holliday is a pumped, up post HGH bum. And god knows he ain't the only one doing that stuff around the leagues (You listening Albert?)

    It's so easy to check a lot of the things that you say. You should try.


    Matt Holliday played 8 seasons in St. Louis, not 9. I cited 5 of them, not 4. Of the three I did not cite, one was 2009, when he traded to the Cardinals mid-season. No, in a half-season he didn't lead the team in any offensive categories; all he did was tear the cover off the ball day in and day out. I assume it's not your intention to say anything disparaging about his hitting in 2009.


    I also didn't cite 2015-2016. Those weren't good years. 2015 he was injured. 2016 he was 36. If your warning is that he's now 37 and we shouldn't expect the Matt Holliday of 2006-2013 (combined 143 OPS+), I would have figured that before your post.


    I didn't say he was a "HOF type player." Like others, I wouldn't give him my vote, though he'd hardly be the worst player in there. I said he had a HOF-caliber season in 2010, and while that might have been a minor stretch, it's not a big one (.312/.390/.532, 149 OPS+, 5.9 WAR).


    So 5-1/2 of 7-1/2 seasons were pretty darn good to great. As for the 2011 World Series, Holliday was not "BENCHED in perfect health" in game 6. He was certainly having a disastrous Series and a disastrous game 6, culminating in his being picked off third base. He hurt his hand on the play. That's why he was taken out of game 6 and didn't play in game 7.


    This all took me five minutes on Google and B-R.com. Try them.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  10. #35
    NYYF Legend

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    Re: Don't fall in love with Matt Holliday

    Quote Originally Posted by str8carter View Post
    I admit when I looked at his career stats I was surprised...better than I expected. But since 2010 the eye test says otherwise. When you watch a guy fail in the clutch on a nightly basis it dawns on you that Holliday feasts in games that the team scores 12 runs. He destroys bad pitching.

    I said that he never lead the team in any positive stat. I will amend that: 2 years ago Matt Adams was leading the team in RBI with 84 I believe in August. He went down for the season and it took Matt a month to catch up! Other than that single stat he never lead in anything.

    Since the departure of Pujols all the team leading stats go to Berkman, Beltran, Molina and Matt Carpenter.

    To the poster that cried SOUR GRAPES; trust me...I have been down on MH and La Russa and Pujols and Matheny for YEARS on various forums. (Please don't let me get started on Pujols!)



    Try "positive thinking" for a change. It might do you some good. It's a hell of a lot better than being down on so many players. Look for the good in people


    Andy
    Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.

  11. #36
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    Re: Don't fall in love with Matt Holliday

    it's too late... i've fallen madly in love with him... i'm talking about hanging up pictures of holliday in my room above my bed type of love
    help feed the hungry:

    www.thehungersite.com

  12. #37

    Re: Don't fall in love with Matt Holliday

    Quote Originally Posted by Nome View Post
    Try "positive thinking" for a change. It might do you some good. It's a hell of a lot better than being down on so many players. Look for the good in people


    Andy
    It's way too late for that. Mark McGwire and his little buddy Sosa saw to that.

    And to answer to
    JL25and3: 2009 was a revelation. He was absolutely savaging the ball. That was the beginning of the end of the Pujols greatness. He stopped meeting the ball where pitched and became a dead pull hitter like Matt. Pitchers adjusted. Both of them started rolling over to SS. BA's plummeted. DPs increased.

    Sorry to have to set you straight, JL, but LaRussa used "injury" to juggle the lineup to his whims. Magically, if the sick, injured or half-dead player was needed to pinch hit he healed up fast. Holliday was not hurt in game 6 or 7. Every real fan knew this, yet the Post Dispatch never mentioned it. Considering the pickle newspapers are in these days it's understandable they wouldn't want to piss off their biggest customer.

  13. #38
    NYYF Legend

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    Re: Don't fall in love with Matt Holliday

    2009 63G 169 OPS+ (acquired in trade for dreck)
    2010 158 G 149 OPS+
    2011 124 G 151 OPS+
    2012 157 G 138 OPS+
    2013 141 G 141 OPS+
    2014 156 G 127 OPS+
    2015 73 G 121 OPS+
    2016 110 G 107 OPS+

    For his Cardinal career 8 years 982 Gs .293/.380/.494 138 OPS+

    Sure you can say the back side of his deal wasn't great but wtf those were his age 34-36 seasons. His first 4.5 years in a Cardinal uniform he was an absolute stud. And while his performance fell off he was still a very good player.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  14. #39
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: Don't fall in love with Matt Holliday

    Quote Originally Posted by matt2351 View Post
    No offense, but this thread is weak.
    The word you were looking for is retarded.

  15. #40
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    Re: Don't fall in love with Matt Holliday

    To bad that the retired doc is not a Holliday fan.

  16. #41
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by str8carter View Post
    It's way too late for that. Mark McGwire and his little buddy Sosa saw to that.

    And to answer to
    JL25and3: 2009 was a revelation. He was absolutely savaging the ball. That was the beginning of the end of the Pujols greatness. He stopped meeting the ball where pitched and became a dead pull hitter like Matt. Pitchers adjusted. Both of them started rolling over to SS. BA's plummeted. DPs increased.

    Sorry to have to set you straight, JL, but LaRussa used "injury" to juggle the lineup to his whims. Magically, if the sick, injured or half-dead player was needed to pinch hit he healed up fast. Holliday was not hurt in game 6 or 7. Every real fan knew this, yet the Post Dispatch never mentioned it. Considering the pickle newspapers are in these days it's understandable they wouldn't want to piss off their biggest customer.
    Ah. So you know that they just said he was injured, he wasn't injured. Everyone knew it. Strong argument.

  17. #42

    Re: Don't fall in love with Matt Holliday

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    2009 63G 169 OPS+ (acquired in trade for dreck)
    2010 158 G 149 OPS+
    2011 124 G 151 OPS+
    2012 157 G 138 OPS+
    2013 141 G 141 OPS+
    2014 156 G 127 OPS+
    2015 73 G 121 OPS+
    2016 110 G 107 OPS+

    For his Cardinal career 8 years 982 Gs .293/.380/.494 138 OPS+

    Sure you can say the back side of his deal wasn't great but wtf those were his age 34-36 seasons. His first 4.5 years in a Cardinal uniform he was an absolute stud. And while his performance fell off he was still a very good player.
    Those OPS+ numbers don't impress me. I don't understand those numbers. I understand batting average, OBP, slugging pct. and RBI. He failed progressively there from 2010 on.

  18. #43
    NYYF Legend

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    Re: Don't fall in love with Matt Holliday

    Quote Originally Posted by str8carter View Post
    I don't understand those numbers.
    Tells me all I need to know. Thanks.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  19. #44

    Re: Don't fall in love with Matt Holliday

    Quote Originally Posted by pleasepassthesoup View Post

    The guy has been a monster his entire career, outside of last season when he was hurt. . .
    And the year before that . . .

  20. #45
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    Re: Don't fall in love with Matt Holliday

    Quote Originally Posted by str8carter View Post
    Those OPS+ numbers don't impress me. I don't understand those numbers. I understand batting average, OBP, slugging pct. and RBI. He failed progressively there from 2010 on.
    Oh my.
    That's our second Arby's in town. Some say it's better, the fries are curlier, though I wouldn't know. I'm loyal to the original.

  21. #46
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    Re: Don't fall in love with Matt Holliday

    Lions and tigers and bears.

  22. #47

    Re: Don't fall in love with Matt Holliday

    Quote Originally Posted by str8carter View Post
    Those OPS+ numbers don't impress me. I don't understand those numbers. I understand batting average, OBP, slugging pct. and RBI. He failed progressively there from 2010 on.
    This is some of your best work.

  23. #48

    Re: Don't fall in love with Matt Holliday

    Quote Originally Posted by 2JAY View Post
    To bad that the retired doc is not a Holliday fan.
    outstanding
    Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. ~ Dale Carnegie

  24. #49
    Devoted Member

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    Re: Don't fall in love with Matt Holliday

    Quote Originally Posted by str8carter View Post
    Those OPS+ numbers don't impress me. I don't understand those numbers. I understand batting average, OBP, slugging pct. and RBI. He failed progressively there from 2010 on.
    Best fans in baseball!!!
    #BFIB

  25. #50
    Do not vex me mortal Hitman23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2JAY View Post
    To bad that the retired doc is not a Holliday fan.
    Maybe we can try to coerce him.

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