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  1. #201

    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    This is a Montgomery thread. I don't want it to devolve into a Severino topic. A different topic. I made that mistake in another thread.

    Montgomery got one out in the 7th. After that, Cain launched a HR and then Hosmer smoked a bullet to Castro. Lead was 2-1. I'm sure he'll be in similar situations going forward and get chances to complete that last out.

    At this point though, he's a rookie pitcher with all of 7 starts, who struggled in his previous 2 outings. You got a good bullpen. Build his confidence. And to ridicule Girardi for that decision?!? I don't understand.

  2. #202
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    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo_T View Post
    This is a Montgomery thread. I don't want it to devolve into a Severino topic. A different topic. I made that mistake in another thread.

    Montgomery got one out in the 7th. After that, Cain launched a HR and then Hosmer smoked a bullet to Castro. Lead was 2-1. I'm sure he'll be in similar situations going forward and get chances to complete that last out.

    At this point though, he's a rookie pitcher with all of 7 starts, who struggled in his previous 2 outings. You got a good bullpen. Build his confidence. And to ridicule Girardi for that decision?!? I don't understand.
    First off there was a huge difference between Severino's and Montgomery's outing. Severino had ace stuff last night. While the results for Montgomery were good, he was not dominant and quite frankly a bit lucky. He gave up one homerun and 4 other balls were caught at the wall. The two that were caught at the fence in left center would have been homeruns in most, if not all other parks. Anyone who watched both games would agree that Severino was the better bet to get outs late in the game.

    Unfortunately there's a mind set by some fans that every loss is the managers fault. The Yankees had an owner with that same mentality and he turned the team into a circus and train wreck until he was kicked out of baseball. Some lose sight that there are 25 major league players in the opposing dugout trying to win the game. Sometimes a reliever that has been mostly reliable doesn't get the job done which is what happened in the Montgomery game. It happens, you accept it and turn the page.

  3. #203

    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vanderlay View Post
    First off there was a huge difference between Severino's and Montgomery's outing. Severino had ace stuff last night. While the results for Montgomery were good, he was not dominant and quite frankly a bit lucky. He gave up one homerun and 4 other balls were caught at the wall. The two that were caught at the fence in left center would have been homeruns in most, if not all other parks. Anyone who watched both games would agree that Severino was the better bet to get outs late in the game.

    Unfortunately there's a mind set by some fans that every loss is the managers fault. The Yankees had an owner with that same mentality and he turned the team into a circus and train wreck until he was kicked out of baseball. Some lose sight that there are 25 major league players in the opposing dugout trying to win the game. Sometimes a reliever that has been mostly reliable doesn't get the job done which is what happened in the Montgomery game. It happens, you accept it and turn the page.
    Quite an excellent post!

  4. #204
    Hemi-Goodness DrNick's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Dont really have any issues with Joe puling Montgomery. He had just given up two hard hit balls, was at 98 pitches and Perez, who was up next, had made really good contact on him in his last AB, hitting the ball to the wall. A normally reliable pitcher in Warren didnt do his job, it happens. Montgomery was blessed with a bit of luck this start with several balls being caught up against the wall, Warren suffered a bit of bad luck, inducing a soft liner, on Perez, that was just out of the reach of Castro.

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  5. #205

    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vanderlay View Post
    Unfortunately there's a mind set by some fans that every loss is the managers fault. The Yankees had an owner with that same mentality and he turned the team into a circus and train wreck until he was kicked out of baseball. Some lose sight that there are 25 major league players in the opposing dugout trying to win the game. Sometimes a reliever that has been mostly reliable doesn't get the job done which is what happened in the Montgomery game. It happens, you accept it and turn the page.
    Unfortunately, some posters make generalized comments like these that have nothing to do with the topic discussed. You know, because I'm not one of those posters who constantly criticizes the manager and very clearly stated (which you conveniently ignored) that I would not have gotten on Joe had Monty stayed in and given up the lead. But yeah, suddenly I'm a drunken GMS. I didn't like the move before Warren/Holder/Shreve fell apart, not after. That flies in the face of that theory.

    Too bad some posters cannot grasp the simple fact that a manager can be critiqued, even passionately, and it be to the benefit of the club. But then again some posters wouldn't be reasonable in evaluating the club under any circumstances.

  6. #206
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    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Melancynic View Post
    Unfortunately, some posters make generalized comments like these that have nothing to do with the topic discussed. You know, because I'm not one of those posters who constantly criticizes the manager and very clearly stated (which you conveniently ignored) that I would not have gotten on Joe had Monty stayed in and given up the lead. But yeah, suddenly I'm a drunken GMS. I didn't like the move before Warren/Holder/Shreve fell apart, not after. That flies in the face of that theory.

    Too bad some posters cannot grasp the simple fact that a manager can be critiqued, even passionately, and it be to the benefit of the club. But then again some posters wouldn't be reasonable in evaluating the club under any circumstances.


    Mel, my comments were not directed at you. But you have to acknowledge there is a mindset among a certain segment of fans, not just here but also on sports talk, etc, that every loss must be pinned on the manager. It seems lost on some that there's a major league team sitting in the opposing dugout that is trying just as hard as the Yankees to win the game. Regarding the Montgomery game, a strong argument could have been made either way. Joe decided to pull him and replace him with a reliever that has been very reliable for him. It didn't work, doesn't mean it was the wrong or irrational decision, that's just the nature of the game.

  7. #207

    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vanderlay View Post
    Mel, my comments were not directed at you. But you have to acknowledge there is a mindset among a certain segment of fans, not just here but also on sports talk, etc, that every loss must be pinned on the manager. It seems lost on some that there's a major league team sitting in the opposing dugout that is trying just as hard as the Yankees to win the game. Regarding the Montgomery game, a strong argument could have been made either way. Joe decided to pull him and replace him with a reliever that has been very reliable for him. It didn't work, doesn't mean it was the wrong or irrational decision, that's just the nature of the game.
    Have no problem with any of your post except the bolded, which I never suggested. Again, I've said repeatedly that I had this reaction before "it didn't work" not after. My view was not about the results at all so we can throw that discussion out now b/c it wasn't just in response to Tuesday night.

    To repeat, my post was frustration at Joe's inability to allow young and sometimes veteran starters to work through trouble or adversity.

    I don't think you or others are crazy for advocating taking Monty out there. In a vacuum it's an idea that is totally reasonable. However, Joe has done this for years and it becomes maddening (end result aside) when he does not allow a starter to push himself and face adversity (good result or bad).

    That Severino was allowed to approach 120 pitches is great if it's a preview of what's to come. Montgomery deserved a chance to face another batter IMO considering there were 2 out and no one on.

  8. #208
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    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vanderlay View Post
    First off there was a huge difference between Severino's and Montgomery's outing. Severino had ace stuff last night. While the results for Montgomery were good, he was not dominant and quite frankly a bit lucky. He gave up one homerun and 4 other balls were caught at the wall. The two that were caught at the fence in left center would have been homeruns in most, if not all other parks. Anyone who watched both games would agree that Severino was the better bet to get outs late in the game.

    Unfortunately there's a mind set by some fans that every loss is the managers fault. The Yankees had an owner with that same mentality and he turned the team into a circus and train wreck until he was kicked out of baseball. Some lose sight that there are 25 major league players in the opposing dugout trying to win the game. Sometimes a reliever that has been mostly reliable doesn't get the job done which is what happened in the Montgomery game. It happens, you accept it and turn the page.

    Very solid post. Well done.

  9. #209
    Brien "The Incident" just-blaze's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vanderlay View Post
    First off there was a huge difference between Severino's and Montgomery's outing. Severino had ace stuff last night. While the results for Montgomery were good, he was not dominant and quite frankly a bit lucky. He gave up one homerun and 4 other balls were caught at the wall. The two that were caught at the fence in left center would have been homeruns in most, if not all other parks. Anyone who watched both games would agree that Severino was the better bet to get outs late in the game.
    I don't disagree with any of this. I just didn't see the harm in allowing him to get that last out. His track record should have nothing to do with it, this is a development year for him and at some point you have to let him go deeper into the game or let him finish innings late in the game where he is struggling and this was a prime opportunity.

    And, I also said I had no problem with Joe pulling him, but I preferred to see him try and finish the 7th.

    Unfortunately there's a mind set by some fans that every loss is the managers fault. The Yankees had an owner with that same mentality and he turned the team into a circus and train wreck until he was kicked out of baseball. Some lose sight that there are 25 major league players in the opposing dugout trying to win the game. Sometimes a reliever that has been mostly reliable doesn't get the job done which is what happened in the Montgomery game. It happens, you accept it and turn the page.
    I don't have a high opinion on Joe, but Ive also said many a time that he is better than the majority of managers out there and unless an obvious upgrade is out there that he should stay.

  10. #210

    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Warren just didn't get it done. I think it was the right move with all factors considered. Warren nearly always ends that inning. Montgomery gets the win. Montgomery throws just about 100 pitches, and only allows 1 run. 6 is and no walks. Montgomery has the best start of his career. All positives for him going forward.

    If he gives up the lead, then suddenly he walks out a loser. Warren getting out of that inning is almost a slam dunk.

    I think Joe often has too quick of a hook and babies his starters, but I can't fault this one.

  11. #211

    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Command and location pretty much sums up Montgomery's existence in the major leagues. Just not a very good pitcher right now.

  12. #212
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    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    it wasnt that bad. Groundballs found holes.

    he could benefit from better command definitely
    always reasonable

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