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  1. #51
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    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DaBliz View Post
    Do your own research then. I went through it and did it by hand, but you are more than welcome to use my data and expand it out to every starting lefty to throw 70+ innings. Seriously, please do it. I'd love to have an even more accurate figure.
    Someone already did it:
    Left-handed starters: 90.6 mph average fastball, 20.3% K, 7.1% BB (2014 study)
    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/how-m...lefty-starter/

    Also, I wouldn't automatically subtract 1 mph from Montgomery. There's a lot of sloppy readings out there and it's still pretty early.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaBliz View Post
    I'll be waiting, but I have a feeling that research isn't your forte. Unbridled pessimism and criticism is.
    You can take all the shots you want, but you consistently put out misinformation on this site. It's tiresome needing to correct you.
    Calmer than you are

    7/30/2017: The day the Minnesota Twins bought a prospect from the New York Yankees.

  2. #52

    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    DB and M - I thought you guys would know this. How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

  3. #53
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    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    It's not using misinformation and you're using old numbers that I'm not even sure are correct. And, by the way, posting a study that doesn't include methodology or a link to the results is not "correcting" me. It's cherry picking an old study to support your own narrative. I did the actual legwork and I also have put all of the info out there so you can double check. Either show me where my numbers are incorrect or shut your mouth. I mean crap, the odds of me making a mistake have to be pretty decent. Go ahead and find a few mistakes and prove me wrong

    But, just to see if it would influence my results because I know you're too lazy to actually research things yourself, I went through and expanded my field. Here is every lefty starting pitcher to throw 70+ innings last season:

    Average Lefty Velocity (for 2016)
    *all LHP who pitched over 70 innings last year
    James Paxton 96.7
    Danny Duffy 94.9
    Blake Snell 94
    Carlos Rodon 93.6
    Steven Matz 93.6 (does not throw 4-seam, this is a sinker)
    Eduardo Rodriguez 93.4
    Chris Sale 93 (does not throw 4-seam, this is a 2-seam)
    Clayton Kershaw 93
    David Price 92.9
    Martin Perez 92.9
    Sean Manaea 92.9
    Matt Moore 92.8
    Francisco Liriano 92.4
    Jon Lester 92
    Jose Quintana 92
    Tyler Anderson 92
    Brandon Finnegan 91.8
    J.A. Happ 91.8
    Derek Holland 91.7 (does not throw 4-seamer, this is a sinker)
    Patrick Corbin 91.5
    Cole Hamels 91.5
    Jeff Locke 91.5
    Scott Kazmir 91.4 (does not throw 4-seamer, this is a sinker)
    Hector Santiago 91.3
    Drew Pomeranz 91.2
    Matt Boyd 91.2
    Adam Conley 91.1
    Gio Gonzalez 91
    Adam Morgan 90.7
    Madison Bumgarner 90.7
    Jaime Garcia 90.6
    Wei-Yin Chen 90.5
    Rich Hill 90.3
    Wade Miley 90.3
    Jorge De La Rosa 90.2
    Drew Smyly 90.2
    CC Sabathia 89.4
    Christian Friedrich 89.3
    Jon Niese 89.3
    Dallas Kuechel 88.3


    RESULTS
    Average Velocity 91.7225
    Median Velocity 91.5
    % over 92 mph 38%
    Middle 33% range 91.2-92.4
    Top 20% (what I would call plus velocity): 93+

    This actually RAISED the mean velocity, while lowering the median velocity slightly.

    EDIT: Actually, after thinking about it, that study probably used every fastball and just averaged them together. I focused on 4-seam fastballs because we're talking solely about Montgomery's hardest pitch. If we included his cutter and 2-seam fastball, it would probably fall right into that range.

  4. #54
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    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    I appreciate the table. Not sure what I'm supposed to infer from it however.

    Does the table make Monty look good or bad?

    In the end I really only care if he gets guys out or not and time will tell as it look like he's in the rotation for a while.

    My only real question is do I make a waiver claim on him in my 20 team fantasy baseball league or see if he clears first.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  5. #55
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    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Less filling or tastes great?
    SJW - bad attempt at insulting people that care about other's rights and not just their own.

  6. #56
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    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    I appreciate the table. Not sure what I'm supposed to infer from it however.

    Does the table make Monty look good or bad?

    In the end I really only care if he gets guys out or not and time will tell as it look like he's in the rotation for a while.

    My only real question is do I make a waiver claim on him in my 20 team fantasy baseball league or see if he clears first.
    I went through the painstaking steps of average fastball velocity because Melancynic posted that Montgomery had plus fastball velocity, which seemed to contradict every thing I've ever read about him. To really figure things out, I needed to actually find the average fastball velocity myself because I did not find satisfactory information online. I posted the results because I thought I would be called a liar. I was then called a liar for my first table ANYWAY, so I expanded the results. I think the developing perception is that I'm just looking to argue with these guys, but I was honestly just trying to uncover the truth, and I've actually learned a lot along the way. Been posting here for 10 years and I really try to focus on the facts, but I admittedly don't respond well to being attacked. I've seen them bully other posters and I'm not going to let them try to push me around.

    I would love to be completely wrong about Montgomery, but I've been continually attacked for insinuating that MAYBE Chad Green, a guy who is the exact same age and has some positives to his game, is as good as a pitcher as Montgomery. I really do hope that Montgomery comes out throwing 95 in his next start and becomes this team's Andy Pettitte. I just do not see it.

    In a 20 team league? How many pitching slots do you get? I could see it being a reasonable move, depending on how much you need to lean on him.

  7. #57
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    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DaBliz View Post
    I went through the painstaking steps of average fastball velocity because Melancynic posted that Montgomery had plus fastball velocity, which seemed to contradict every thing I've ever read about him. To really figure things out, I needed to actually find the average fastball velocity myself because I did not find satisfactory information online. I posted the results because I thought I would be called a liar. I was then called a liar for my first table ANYWAY, so I expanded the results. I think the developing perception is that I'm just looking to argue with these guys, but I was honestly just trying to uncover the truth, and I've actually learned a lot along the way. Been posting here for 10 years and I really try to focus on the facts, but I admittedly don't respond well to being attacked.

    I would love to be completely wrong about Montgomery, but I've been continually attacked for insinuating that MAYBE Chad Green, a guy who is the exact same age and has some positives to his game, is as good as a pitcher as Montgomery. I really do hope that Montgomery comes out throwing 95 in his next start and becomes this team's Andy Pettitte. I just do not see it.

    In a 20 team league? How many pitching slots do you get? I could see it being a reasonable move, depending on how much you need to lean on him.
    Thanks.

    Honestly I don't follow prospects as closely as some. I'm rooting for Montgomery because he wears the pinstripes.

    Even if he's "low 90s" it would seem he's at least in effective velocity range.

    As for the league we bat 9 and have 19 total spots (short 3 man bench each day). Reliable pitching is hard to come by in a 20 team league so taking a flier of rookies in April who may pan out is sometimes fantasy gold and if they stink it usually only kills you for a start or two before you cut bait.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  8. #58
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    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Thanks.

    Honestly I don't follow prospects as closely as some. I'm rooting for Montgomery because he wears the pinstripes.

    Even if he's "low 90s" it would seem he's at least in effective velocity range.

    As for the league we bat 9 and have 19 total spots (short 3 man bench each day). Reliable pitching is hard to come by in a 20 team league so taking a flier of rookies in April who may pan out is sometimes fantasy gold and if they stink it usually only kills you for a start or two before you cut bait.
    Oh, yeah, for sure. I made a point to say that velocity is clearly not the only important factor when it comes to the fastball, but that saying Montgomery had plus fastball velocity seemed like an exaggeration. This was somehow interpreted as saying that Chad Green is MUCH MUCH better than Jordan Montgomery, when this whole ordeal started in a post where I put them in the same boat lol. I like that Montgomery has a good mix of different pitches, all of which he can throw effectively, but generally I've read that lacking a true out pitch leads to disaster. Yesterday, it actually looked like the slider could be that pitch, even though his changeup is supposed to be his best offering. Only time will tell, I guess.

    I have to admit that I haven't played fantasy in quite some time so I'm not sure what kind of alternatives would be available, but you might find a table like this to be helpful:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...ter=&players=0

    Contains all pitchers under 25 to make a start this season. I'm sure most of the guys at the top have already been picked up, but there's probably a couple sleepers in the pack that aren't on rosters right now.

  9. #59
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    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    I have heard that Montgomery "may lack an out pitch" just by skimming some scouting reports. But judging by his MiLB results last year, his spring stats and his admittedly small sample 7K performance yesterday, I'm hopeful that those reports are in error.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  10. #60
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    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DaBliz View Post
    It's not using misinformation and you're using old numbers that I'm not even sure are correct. And, by the way, posting a study that doesn't include methodology or a link to the results is not "correcting" me. It's cherry picking an old study to support your own narrative. I did the actual legwork and I also have put all of the info out there so you can double check. Either show me where my numbers are incorrect or shut your mouth. I mean crap, the odds of me making a mistake have to be pretty decent. Go ahead and find a few mistakes and prove me wrong
    Again, stop being all Florida about things. It did, you just don't read:
    Limiting the pool to only those that had started in more than half their appearances
    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/how-m...lefty-starter/

    A few things:
    1) You should do this across 3 years.
    2) You are comparing a year worth of data vs one start.
    3) You are comparing a year worth of data vs a SP who made his first start. Starting pitchers tend to throw harder as the year goes on and the weather warms up.

    If you really want to compare apples to apples (even though really dumb due to the SSS).

    2017 rankings:
    James Paxton 95.8
    Chris Sale 94.6
    Martin Perez 94.2
    Blake Snell 94.0
    Clayton Kershaw 93.1
    Eduardo Rodriguez 93.0
    Robbie Ray 92.9
    Sean Manaea 92.9
    Danny Duffy 92.8
    Francisco Liriano 92.7
    Jordan Montgomery 92.4
    J.A. Happ 92.4
    Drew Pomeranz 92.2
    Jose Quintana 92.2
    Madison Bumgarner 92.2

    Basically on the fringe of being top 10. In addition, obviously not all fastballs are created equal. You are just making a scouting judgement purely based on velocity, movement and swing/miss tendencies plays a role. He had a 16.9 % swinging strike percentage (all pitches) whereas average is 9.5% . Again, insanely SSS.
    Calmer than you are

    7/30/2017: The day the Minnesota Twins bought a prospect from the New York Yankees.

  11. #61

    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Can't you guys settle this with a sig bet or something?


  12. #62
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    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    It's tiresome needing to correct you.
    And yet it seems that's what you do best.

    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  13. #63
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    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Quote Originally Posted by beagle View Post
    db and m - i thought you guys would know this. How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

    lmao!
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  14. #64
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    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    And yet it seems that's what you do best.
    Cool copy job.
    Calmer than you are

    7/30/2017: The day the Minnesota Twins bought a prospect from the New York Yankees.

  15. #65
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    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Cool copy job.
    A picture is worth a thousand words
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  16. #66
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    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    A picture is worth a thousand words
    How about a gif?
    Calmer than you are

    7/30/2017: The day the Minnesota Twins bought a prospect from the New York Yankees.

  17. #67
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    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Again, stop being all Florida about things. It did, you just don't read:


    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/how-m...lefty-starter/

    A few things:
    1) You should do this across 3 years.
    2) You are comparing a year worth of data vs one start.
    3) You are comparing a year worth of data vs a SP who made his first start. Starting pitchers tend to throw harder as the year goes on and the weather warms up.

    If you really want to compare apples to apples (even though really dumb due to the SSS).

    2017 rankings:
    James Paxton 95.8
    Chris Sale 94.6
    Martin Perez 94.2
    Blake Snell 94.0
    Clayton Kershaw 93.1
    Eduardo Rodriguez 93.0
    Robbie Ray 92.9
    Sean Manaea 92.9
    Danny Duffy 92.8
    Francisco Liriano 92.7
    Jordan Montgomery 92.4
    J.A. Happ 92.4
    Drew Pomeranz 92.2
    Jose Quintana 92.2
    Madison Bumgarner 92.2

    Basically on the fringe of being top 10. In addition, obviously not all fastballs are created equal. You are just making a scouting judgement purely based on velocity, movement and swing/miss tendencies plays a role. He had a 16.9 % swinging strike percentage (all pitches) whereas average is 9.5% . Again, insanely SSS.
    Never thought i'd say this but i 100% agree with this assessment. Nice post, well thought out but the theme is definitely SSS. We need to see how he does over the course of a few months, based on what I saw he has swing and a miss stuff, time will tell if that holds true. It's one start.

  18. #68

    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Quote Originally Posted by smckdwn989 View Post
    Never thought i'd say this but i 100% agree with this assessment. Nice post, well thought out but the theme is definitely SSS. We need to see how he does over the course of a few months, based on what I saw he has swing and a miss stuff, time will tell if that holds true. It's one start.
    FB velo probably normalizes fairly quickly. In fact, too large a SS might be less informative. Take CC's average FB velo over his career ... doesn't say anything.

  19. #69
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    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    How about a gif?

    Here's one especially for you:
    Attached Images
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  20. #70

    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Again, stop being all Florida about things. It did, you just don't read:


    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/how-m...lefty-starter/

    A few things:
    1) You should do this across 3 years.
    2) You are comparing a year worth of data vs one start.
    3) You are comparing a year worth of data vs a SP who made his first start. Starting pitchers tend to throw harder as the year goes on and the weather warms up.

    If you really want to compare apples to apples (even though really dumb due to the SSS).

    2017 rankings:
    James Paxton 95.8
    Chris Sale 94.6
    Martin Perez 94.2
    Blake Snell 94.0
    Clayton Kershaw 93.1
    Eduardo Rodriguez 93.0
    Robbie Ray 92.9
    Sean Manaea 92.9
    Danny Duffy 92.8
    Francisco Liriano 92.7
    Jordan Montgomery 92.4
    J.A. Happ 92.4
    Drew Pomeranz 92.2
    Jose Quintana 92.2
    Madison Bumgarner 92.2

    Basically on the fringe of being top 10. In addition, obviously not all fastballs are created equal. You are just making a scouting judgement purely based on velocity, movement and swing/miss tendencies plays a role. He had a 16.9 % swinging strike percentage (all pitches) whereas average is 9.5% . Again, insanely SSS.
    Don't even bother. I posted the same FanGraphs article and the same damning quote. It's falling on deaf ears. Actually, that's not even fair to deaf people. It's falling on ears that are plugged by fingers and drowned out by loud, desperate humming.

    I've given up debating because the guy does not stick to the points, makes wild tangents and purposely ignores or distorts key points that fly in the face of his arguments.

    Also I love that your data suggests he is sitting 92+ which is precisely what I had guessed. But, to be clear, I wasn't the one making this all about one start. God Forbid I say he was sitting 93 for the one inning Gameday provided velo readings (or the two starts televised this spring).

    It's troubling that someone cannot understand there is a large gap between "geeking out" on a prospect and simply recognizing there is a lot value in a potential #3 or #4 LHSP in YS with four pitches, command and a upticking FB. Sorry he's not fringe, he's beaten out Chad Green for the 5th rotation slot and his FB velo is above average. But that's the crux of the argument(s) here. Sticking to them is not difficult.

  21. #71
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    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Oh shut your mouth. You complain about the small sample size of the results I posted (which it was a full season that considered literally thousands of thrown fastballs by starters, not a small sample size, by the way)... but then you two then jump right on the "ONE GAME PROVES US RIGHT" bullcrap. On top of that, the fangraphs article you posted was garbage because there is NO WAY that the average lefty 4-seam fastball is 90.6 MPH, and I PROVED that the claim was incorrect. I posted my results, the numbers are all on fangraphs, and you're clearly relying on an article that merged all fastballs (4-seamers, 2-seamers, sinkers, cutters, etc.).

    Now granted, the fangraphs tracking of Jordan Montgomery does seem to imply that he was averaging 92.6 -- but you had both already claimed that we cannot trust the results of Montgomery's first start. But, as soon as it validates your opinion, you both change your tune. What a surprise, right?

    I'm willing and have always been willing to state that Montgomery throws an acceptably fast fastball, but plus velocity is still pushing it, even with those results. He's not going to get major league hitters out by blowing them away with the fastball, which "plus velocity" (you know, the term I was disputing) implies. Instead you've changed the argument to all sorts of things I've never said yet again. And then you have the gall to say that I'm the one who isn't sticking to the point?

    And how many times do I have to repeat that I didn't really care that he got the nod over Green? You've warped it into your little pea brain that I have a preference for Green, even though I've stated nonstop that I consider them to be pretty equal. Stop being so angry that I called you a douche, because you've only validated the opinion with your douche posts over the last week. I wasn't even going to post here again, but you are incapable of keeping my name out of your mouth and I'm not going to let you take pot shots every g'damn night.

    EDIT: I haven't made one of these before, so I figured it would be good Excel practice. Here is a bell curve of average MLB LHP starting pitching velocity. I have added Jordan Montgomery's debut to the graph as a way to demonstrate where he stands in relation to his peers. Now, obviously, this had to smooth out the results, but I found the standard deviation (1.61) and worked from there to make the bell curve. The yellowish section contains all of the velocities within a single standard deviation. In statistical terms, this encompasses what you can call a typical average range. 68% of all results lie within a single standard deviation. For this analysis, this ended up being a range of 89.9-93.11.



    I am not implying that Montgomery isn't or cannot improve his results. But since ClownPickle used this number against me (intentionally giving misleading, not full, results), I wanted to demonstrate how insignificant it was in the first place.

    DOUBLE EDIT: It does seem like I made a mistake with having Montgomery as 92.4, instead of 92.6 on my graph. This was an honest mistake, and I am pointing that out. Doesn't change anything significantly, but I thought I'd put that out there.
    Last edited by DaBliz; 04-15-17 at 03:38 AM. Reason: Added bell curve

  22. #72

    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DaBliz View Post
    Oh shut your mouth. You complain about the small sample size of the results I posted (which it was a full season that considered literally thousands of thrown fastballs by starters, not a small sample size, by the way)... but then you two then jump right on the "ONE GAME PROVES US RIGHT" bullcrap. On top of that, the fangraphs article you posted was garbage because there is NO WAY that the average lefty 4-seam fastball is 90.6 MPH, and I PROVED that the claim was incorrect. I posted my results, the numbers are all on fangraphs, and you're clearly relying on an article that merged all fastballs (4-seamers, 2-seamers, sinkers, cutters, etc.).

    Now granted, the fangraphs tracking of Jordan Montgomery does seem to imply that he was averaging 92.6 -- but you had both already claimed that we cannot trust the results of Montgomery's first start. But, as soon as it validates your opinion, you both change your tune. What a surprise, right?

    I'm willing and have always been willing to state that Montgomery throws an acceptably fast fastball, but plus velocity is still pushing it, even with those results. He's not going to get major league hitters out by blowing them away with the fastball, which "plus velocity" (you know, the term I was disputing) implies. Instead you've changed the argument to all sorts of things I've never said yet again. And then you have the gall to say that I'm the one who isn't sticking to the point?

    And how many times do I have to repeat that I didn't really care that he got the nod over Green? You've warped it into your little pea brain that I have a preference for Green, even though I've stated nonstop that I consider them to be pretty equal. Stop being so angry that I called you a douche, because you've only validated the opinion with your douche posts over the last week. I wasn't even going to post here again, but you are incapable of keeping my name out of your mouth and I'm not going to let you take pot shots every g'damn night.

    EDIT: I haven't made one of these before, so I figured it would be good Excel practice. Here is a bell curve of average MLB LHP starting pitching velocity. I have added Jordan Montgomery's debut to the graph as a way to demonstrate where he stands in relation to his peers. Now, obviously, this had to smooth out the results, but I found the standard deviation (1.61) and worked from there to make the bell curve. The yellowish section contains all of the velocities within a single standard deviation. In statistical terms, this encompasses what you can call a typical average range. 68% of all results lie within a single standard deviation. For this analysis, this ended up being a range of 89.9-93.11.



    I am not implying that Montgomery isn't or cannot improve his results. But since ClownPickle used this number against me (intentionally giving misleading, not full, results), I wanted to demonstrate how insignificant it was in the first place.

    DOUBLE EDIT: It does seem like I made a mistake with having Montgomery as 92.4, instead of 92.6 on my graph. This was an honest mistake, and I am pointing that out. Doesn't change anything significantly, but I thought I'd put that out there.
    Shut your mouth???? Where are the forum moderators? Look, I don't care two hoots about this argument and I am tired of reading (skimming over) both of your comments back and forth. Who the heck cares about prospect status? It's all about what this kid can do in the bigs. It is all that matters. Mike Piazza was selected in the 4 millionth round of the draft and became a hall of famer. Everyone is a suspect, not a prospect (fringe or blue chip), until they can prove their ability in the majors. Now I respectfully ask if we can we move on?

  23. #73

    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread


  24. #74
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    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Steve View Post
    Shut your mouth???? Where are the forum moderators? Look, I don't care two hoots about this argument and I am tired of reading (skimming over) both of your comments back and forth. Who the heck cares about prospect status? It's all about what this kid can do in the bigs. It is all that matters. Mike Piazza was selected in the 4 millionth round of the draft and became a hall of famer. Everyone is a suspect, not a prospect (fringe or blue chip), until they can prove their ability in the majors. Now I respectfully ask if we can we move on?
    I've asked this dude to stop making comments about me repeatedly and yet he keeps chiming in with personal-based attacks that criticize my posting without actually making legitimate points about my posts. Clearly, I want Monty to do good, but I'm not going to just sit around while this dude goes on a smear campaign. If he is going to try to make it seem like I'm making things up, he can absolutely shut his mouth, because I've supported everything I've written. Heck, as you can see in the post you quoted, I've even contributed original content during all of this.

    This board really isn't moderated anymore, or else ClownPickle would be gone for ban evasion (I've been told that he was banned in the past). I suspect this isn't MelanCynic's first account, either, because it's not like we get too many new posters on here anymore.

    I'm willing to drop the issue, but I'm not going to let someone take repeated potshots at me.

  25. #75
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    Re: 2017 Jordan Montgomery thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Steve View Post
    Shut your mouth???? Where are the forum moderators?
    Don't bother. It has a hard time arguing points without name-calling (eg douches) and telling people to 'shut their mouths.' Some people are like that, whatever.
    Calmer than you are

    7/30/2017: The day the Minnesota Twins bought a prospect from the New York Yankees.

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