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  1. #376
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    Re: 2017 Tanaka Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by -tz View Post
    Wonderful.


    Hey, we saw history being made...
    "Deep to left! Yastrzemski will not get it! It's a home run! A three-run homer by Bucky Dent! And the Yankees now lead by a score of 3-2!" - New York Yankees announcer Bill White (October 2, 1978)

  2. #377

    Re: 2017 Tanaka Thread

    Maybe it's not Tanaka.

    Home Runs are at an historic high - higher than in any single season in the steroid era (2000). And it started last year. Consider the following Home Run rates:

    1999 - 1.14 (2nd highest in history before 2016)
    2000 - 1.17
    2016 - 1.16
    2017 - 1.26

    Something's happening here. Juiced ball?

    It may be that certain pitchers are having more trouble than others adapting to current conditions. Fly balls that were previously outs are now going over the fences. Jordan Zimmerman, a formerly good pitcher, is getting crushed. John Lackey has turned into a home run machine overnight. His age is probably a factor, but he never previously had high HR rates. Johnny Cueto has doubled his career HR rate this season.

    I don't know what to make of this other than the fact that it's not just Tanaka.

  3. #378
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    Re: 2017 Tanaka Thread

    IMO the Yanks won't make it to the post season with this year's version of Tanaka. I suppose they're in a position where they can still afford to say things like "he's made adjustments before" and "he's certainly healthy enough to strike out 10", but when is the line drawn? When does Plan B come into effect? Is there a Plan B?

    The man has a hittable fastball & slider. He doesn't really have a changeup to speak of. He can't survive with just Mr.Splitty.

    Does Andy Pettitte have to fix this guy too?
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  4. #379
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    Re: 2017 Tanaka Thread

    Is he tipping his pitches?

    (As we clutch at straws)
    Equally as calm as ClownPickle ~(+/- 1)

  5. #380

    Re: 2017 Tanaka Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    Is he tipping his pitches?

    (As we clutch at straws)
    Has there been any suggestion of this anywhere? I'm curious how coaches tell the difference between poor performance and something like tipping pitches provided a medical issue has been ruled out.

  6. #381
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    Re: 2017 Tanaka Thread

    We're passing the tipping point with Tanaka. How is it even possible this is the same guy who outpitched Chris Sale in Fenway last month?
    Mr Coffee: "I definitely think people are overreacting to the Arpaio pardon."

  7. #382

    Re: 2017 Tanaka Thread

    It's mental folks.... mental

  8. #383
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    Re: 2017 Tanaka Thread

    I don't think it's mental. 92 MPH fastballs over the middle of the plate usually don't get caught.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  9. #384
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    Re: 2017 Tanaka Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nyy42 View Post
    It's mental folks.... mental
    Or maybe it's dental? Has he had his teeth checked lately?

  10. #385

    Re: 2017 Tanaka Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    IMO the Yanks won't make it to the post season with this year's version of Tanaka. I suppose they're in a position where they can still afford to say things like "he's made adjustments before" and "he's certainly healthy enough to strike out 10", but when is the line drawn? When does Plan B come into effect? Is there a Plan B?
    David Cone had an ERA of 6.91 (70 ERA+) in 2000 and stayed in the rotation all year.

  11. #386
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    Re: 2017 Tanaka Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    David Cone had an ERA of 6.91 (70 ERA+) in 2000 and stayed in the rotation all year.
    I'm not even suggesting removing Tanaka from the rotation. For $20M+, the guy needs to keep pitching. I suppose I'm questioning what the plan is if Tanaka is becoming as unpredictable as 2016's Pineda. In other words, I think the Yanks need someone even more dependable than Tanaka if he can't fix himself.
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  12. #387
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    Re: 2017 Tanaka Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    I'm not even suggesting removing Tanaka from the rotation. For $20M+, the guy needs to keep pitching. I suppose I'm questioning what the plan is if Tanaka is becoming as unpredictable as 2016's Pineda. In other words, I think the Yanks need someone even more dependable than Tanaka if he can't fix himself.
    I am. Unlike other seasons we have plenty of other guys who can start in his place. Stop looking at his salary. Anibal Sanchez was sent to the pen in spite of his huge salary.
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  13. #388
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    Re: 2017 Tanaka Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    David Cone had an ERA of 6.91 (70 ERA+) in 2000 and stayed in the rotation all year.
    To play devil's advocate here - does a bad decision from 17 years ago mean they should make a bad decision now?

  14. #389
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    Re: 2017 Tanaka Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by matt2351 View Post
    To play devil's advocate here - does a bad decision from 17 years ago mean they should make a bad decision now?
    Who exactly were they going to bench Cone for circa 2000? Jake Westbrook? I would think the 2017 farm is a bit more stacked.
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  15. #390
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    Re: 2017 Tanaka Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnybaseball72 View Post
    Who exactly were they going to bench Cone for circa 2000? Jake Westbrook? I would think the 2017 farm is a bit more stacked.
    Ted Lilly started 21 games for the Yankees the following season and was 24 in 2000. I always felt Ramiro Mendoza could have made a solid #5 starter. But I agree that there are many more in house options now.

  16. #391
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    Re: 2017 Tanaka Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by matt2351 View Post
    Ted Lilly started 21 games for the Yankees the following season and was 24 in 2000. I always felt Ramiro Mendoza could have made a solid #5 starter. But I agree that there are many more in house options now.
    When the Yankees acquired Lilly as part of the Irabu trade he was working his way back from Surgery so I don't think he was ready to take over for Cone in 2000. He was a Sept. callup but as a reliever.

    Westbrook, Ben Ford, Randy Keisler, Ed Yarnell all came up from AAA to make starts and all struggled. Mendoza and Gooden were the best spots starters. In hindsight it is surprising how much rope Torre gave Cone and we are seeing it now with Tanaka, though a much younger Tanaka.
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  17. #392
    Super Moderator matt2351's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Tanaka Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnybaseball72 View Post
    When the Yankees acquired Lilly as part of the Irabu trade he was working his way back from Surgery so I don't think he was ready to take over for Cone in 2000. He was a Sept. callup but as a reliever.

    Westbrook, Ben Ford, Randy Keisler, Ed Yarnell all came up from AAA to make starts and all struggled. Mendoza and Gooden were the best spots starters. In hindsight it is surprising how much rope Torre gave Cone and we are seeing it now with Tanaka, though a much younger Tanaka.
    Hmmmm. I am not able to find anything on Ted Lilly's surgery from that time period. Do you remember what the surgery was? He was with the Expos in May of 99 and then again in Sept of 99 for a total of 23.2 innings. He also threw 89 innings in the minors in 99. Then in 2000, with the Yankees, he threw 144 innings in the minors and 8 innings with the big club.

    It is surprising how much rope Coney was given, especially considering where he was in his career, at that point.

  18. #393
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    Re: 2017 Tanaka Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by matt2351 View Post
    Hmmmm. I am not able to find anything on Ted Lilly's surgery from that time period. Do you remember what the surgery was? He was with the Expos in May of 99 and then again in Sept of 99 for a total of 23.2 innings. He also threw 89 innings in the minors in 99. Then in 2000, with the Yankees, he threw 144 innings in the minors and 8 innings with the big club.

    It is surprising how much rope Coney was given, especially considering where he was in his career, at that point.
    Maybe it was a shoulder injury from his time with the Expos.
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  19. #394

    Re: 2017 Tanaka Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by matt2351 View Post
    Hmmmm. I am not able to find anything on Ted Lilly's surgery from that time period. Do you remember what the surgery was? He was with the Expos in May of 99 and then again in Sept of 99 for a total of 23.2 innings. He also threw 89 innings in the minors in 99. Then in 2000, with the Yankees, he threw 144 innings in the minors and 8 innings with the big club.
    Lilly had surgery after the 1999 season for a small labrum tear. He went on the 15-day DL toward the end of spring training, carrying over into the first week of the season. Although he. Pitched 153 innings in 2000, he didn't pitch all that effectively.

  20. #395

    Re: 2017 Tanaka Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Maybe it's not Tanaka.

    Home Runs are at an historic high - higher than in any single season in the steroid era (2000). And it started last year. Consider the following Home Run rates:

    1999 - 1.14 (2nd highest in history before 2016)
    2000 - 1.17
    2016 - 1.16
    2017 - 1.26

    Something's happening here. Juiced ball?

    It may be that certain pitchers are having more trouble than others adapting to current conditions. Fly balls that were previously outs are now going over the fences. Jordan Zimmerman, a formerly good pitcher, is getting crushed. John Lackey has turned into a home run machine overnight. His age is probably a factor, but he never previously had high HR rates. Johnny Cueto has doubled his career HR rate this season.

    I don't know what to make of this other than the fact that it's not just Tanaka.
    Didnt they adjust the zone to take away the low strike? Maybe thats a factor.

  21. #396

    Re: 2017 Tanaka Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ober0n98 View Post
    Didnt they adjust the zone to take away the low strike? Maybe thats a factor.
    Unless I missed something, I don't believe that ever happened. The Players' Association was unwilling to agree to it for this season.

  22. #397
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    Re: 2017 Tanaka Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Lilly had surgery after the 1999 season for a small labrum tear. He went on the 15-day DL toward the end of spring training, carrying over into the first week of the season. Although he. Pitched 153 innings in 2000, he didn't pitch all that effectively.
    Thank you for the clarification. He was not much of an internal option to replace Coney. I did a bit of research and Mendoza had a season ending injury right around the time that Coney began to struggle and all the AAA callups struggled as did Gooden. They were stuck with Cone in the rotation which is not the case with the Yankees and Tanaka. Let German take his spot in the rotation. Though CC being out does complicate things.
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  23. #398

    Re: 2017 Tanaka Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnybaseball72 View Post
    Thank you for the clarification. He was not much of an internal option to replace Coney. I did a bit of research and Mendoza had a season ending injury right around the time that Coney began to struggle and all the AAA callups struggled as did Gooden. They were stuck with Cone in the rotation which is not the case with the Yankees and Tanaka. Let German take his spot in the rotation. Though CC being out does complicate things.
    I hope you're right about them using internal options. There's a lot of talk about midseason acquisitions. I agree with you that they've developed a lot of young talent within the organization. I'd like to see them use it.

  24. #399

    Re: 2017 Tanaka Thread

    I don't think we are quite to the point we were last season, but we are surely on the brink, having gone .459 over our last 37 games. 37 games isn't a fluke. Management dragged their feet in bringing up some young guys last season. Think we need to shut Tanaka down for a bit and bring up Chance Adams. If he can pitch, he can pitch. If he can't send him back down. If his psyche is so fragile that he would be forever ruined by getting knocked around in one major league outing, then he's not a long-term solution anyway.

    How much more does management need to see from Tanaka? They explain away his woes by saying he's not injured and nothing has changed, but that's even more troubling. At least if he were injured you could say "yeah, he sucks b/c he hurt his shoulder." But they're basically saying he sucks for no reason at all, as if that's an ok explanation.

  25. #400
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    Re: 2017 Tanaka Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnybaseball72 View Post
    Thank you for the clarification. He was not much of an internal option to replace Coney. I did a bit of research and Mendoza had a season ending injury right around the time that Coney began to struggle and all the AAA callups struggled as did Gooden. They were stuck with Cone in the rotation which is not the case with the Yankees and Tanaka. Let German take his spot in the rotation. Though CC being out does complicate things.
    Good stuff, boys. Thanks!

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