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  1. #10526
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    Re: 2017 Official Regular Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Betances had 70 IP pitched by this time last year and 76 IP the year before, might be an issue of lack of use.
    Can't win. Last year this time folks were complaining he was tired from overuse, this year he's rusty from not enough work?
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  2. #10527
    I.P. Standing Krall's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Official Regular Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Can't win. Last year this time folks were complaining he was tired from overuse, this year he's rusty from not enough work?
    Sample size says he's just wild and not our closer for a reason.

  3. #10528

    Re: 2017 Official Regular Season Thread

    Betances' struggles further highlight how delicate and fragile mechanics can be for bigger pitchers. Also serves to further highlight Rothschild's overall ineffectiveness this year.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  4. #10529
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    Re: 2017 Official Regular Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Can't win. Last year this time folks were complaining he was tired from overuse, this year he's rusty from not enough work?
    Just throwing it out there. You aren't seeing a degradation in stuff. It's seemingly mechanical, and whatever bullpen sessions they are doing aren't working.

  5. #10530
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    Re: 2017 Official Regular Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Krall View Post
    Sample size says he's just wild and not our closer for a reason.
    6.8 BB/9 and 10 hit batters say he shouldn't be closing this year.

    His minor league bug-a-boo, wildness has returned because other than the walks he's got basically the same peripherials he had in 2014 & 2015 when he was one of the best relievers in the game.

    Whatever is causing his wildness I hope he solves it soon.

    On the flip side Chapman seems to have corrected whatever issues he was having.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  6. #10531
    NYYF Cy Young


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    Re: 2017 Official Regular Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronxirish View Post
    How about throwing it over the outfield fence instead?

    https://youtu.be/ec14W8oh4sg
    Thanks. Yes, that even better than dropping it..... I think Billy may have been the manager.
    Funny.

    edit: It was Lou Pinella (Sweet Lou) Billy was the manager when Dave threw the No Hitter
    Thanks again
    Last edited by bucky; 09-19-17 at 04:47 PM. Reason: wrong manager

  7. #10532

    Re: 2017 Official Regular Season Thread

    Is the game to still scheduled to go on tonight?
    Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. ~ Dale Carnegie

  8. #10533
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    Re: 2017 Official Regular Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fredgmuggs View Post
    Is the game to still scheduled to go on tonight?
    So far, yes

  9. #10534
    I.P. Standing Krall's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Official Regular Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    6.8 BB/9 and 10 hit batters say he shouldn't be closing this year.

    His minor league bug-a-boo, wildness has returned because other than the walks he's got basically the same peripherials he had in 2014 & 2015 when he was one of the best relievers in the game.

    Whatever is causing his wildness I hope he solves it soon.

    On the flip side Chapman seems to have corrected whatever issues he was having.
    In '14 & '15 he was terrible for a month, right?

    This year he's just be wild more consistently.

    Me too, he's got insane stuff - just seems to have a chip on his shoulder. Don't know if that's his problem or not.

    Yeah good to see Chapman back on track. I hope whatever he was yell'in at Dell'in pays off.

  10. #10535

    Re: 2017 Official Regular Season Thread

    Been down this road before. Too many people blame coaches for poor execution. Betances could be getting poor coaching and that could be the problem. He also might be getting great instruction but he simply isn't excuting it. To judge coaching you have to look at the big picture. Overall our pitching has been solid.

  11. #10536

    Re: 2017 Official Regular Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post
    Betances' struggles further highlight how delicate and fragile mechanics can be for bigger pitchers. Also serves to further highlight Rothschild's overall ineffectiveness this year.
    Zim, what does Green's success almost out of nowhere say about Rothschild's effectiveness?

    BTW, agree with you about the big man mechanics.

  12. #10537

    Re: 2017 Official Regular Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronxirish View Post
    Been down this road before. Too many people blame coaches for poor execution. Betances could be getting poor coaching and that could be the problem. He also might be getting great instruction but he simply isn't excuting it. To judge coaching you have to look at the big picture. Overall our pitching has been solid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Zim, what does Green's success almost out of nowhere say about Rothschild's effectiveness?

    BTW, agree with you about the big man mechanics.
    Thanks. I have no idea where all the Rothschild hate comes from, or on what basis anybody on the internet is capable of isolating how much blame (or credit) he deserves. Seems like a lot of cherry-picking to me.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  13. #10538

    Re: 2017 Official Regular Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Zim, what does Green's success almost out of nowhere say about Rothschild's effectiveness?

    BTW, agree with you about the big man mechanics.
    Had this argument previously. Same old, same old. Rothschild is responsible for everyone underperforming and has nothing to do with anyone overperforming.

  14. #10539

    Re: 2017 Official Regular Season Thread

    Same lineup again tonight.

  15. #10540
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    Re: 2017 Official Regular Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Krall View Post
    In '14 & '15 he was terrible for a month, right?

    This year he's just be wild more consistently.

    Me too, he's got insane stuff - just seems to have a chip on his shoulder. Don't know if that's his problem or not.

    Yeah good to see Chapman back on track. I hope whatever he was yell'in at Dell'in pays off.
    It's more like he was lights out 2014, 2015 and 2016 and had a bad September in 2016.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  16. #10541

    Re: 2017 Official Regular Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Zim, what does Green's success almost out of nowhere say about Rothschild's effectiveness?

    BTW, agree with you about the big man mechanics.
    Not sure about Rothschild's impact on Green. Haven't heard or read anything attributing Green's success to Rothschild - only that he was able to rely on his fastball a lot more out of the pen.

    If there's an article or interview stating otherwise, I'm unaware of it.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  17. #10542

    Re: 2017 Official Regular Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronxirish View Post
    Had this argument previously. Same old, same old. Rothschild is responsible for everyone underperforming and has nothing to do with anyone overperforming.
    Sorry rookie, but what argument did we ever have? You've been here what, 2 months, tops?

    Unless, of course, you're a previous member hiding behind a new username (which I suspect to be the case based on your tone).

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    Thanks. I have no idea where all the Rothschild hate comes from, or on what basis anybody on the internet is capable of isolating how much blame (or credit) he deserves. Seems like a lot of cherry-picking to me.
    Hate? Too funny. Ignore if you wish but:

    How do established pitchers such as Tanaka, Betances, and Chapman crap the bed for unprecedented lengths of time if Rothschild is not at all accountable?

    How is it that Pedro Martinez was able to accomplish more with Severino in 4 weeks than Rothschild could throughout 2016?
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  18. #10543

    Re: 2017 Official Regular Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post
    Sorry rookie, but what argument did we ever have? You've been here what, 2 months, tops?

    Unless, of course, you're a previous member hiding behind a new username (which I suspect to be the case based on your tone).



    Hate? Too funny. Ignore if you wish but:

    How do established pitchers such as Tanaka, Betances, and Chapman crap the bed for unprecedented lengths of time if Rothschild is not at all accountable?

    How is it that Pedro Martinez was able to accomplish more with Severino in 4 weeks than Rothschild could throughout 2016?
    Maybe you weren't paying attention but the moderators put to bed the whole ridiculous fake persona theme. You think I'm smart enough to fake my identity electronically to dupe the people who run this site but dumb enough to give myself away by talking about previous discussions under a banned handle?

    This argument came up a few weeks ago. Someone ridiculously made the assertion that Betances and Chapman's struggles were proof that Rothschild should be fired. Of course this is without any knowledge of what instruction is being given out. When I challenged this assertion I made the point that if the pitching coach is to blame for poor performance than he should get credit for good performance. I used Severino as an example. This poster attributed all of that success to Pedro Martinez. Now the same argument is coming up. Rothschild is being blamed for Betances' struggles. Green was brought up as an example this time, by the way there are plenty to choose from. How about Warren who was a compete mess with the Cubs but excellent under Rothschild? You need an article to prove the correlation is attributable to the pitching coach. None is necessary though to hang failure on him. Like I said earlier same old, same old.

  19. #10544

    Re: 2017 Official Regular Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronxirish View Post
    Maybe you weren't paying attention but the moderators put to bed the whole ridiculous fake persona theme. You think I'm smart enough to fake my identity electronically but dumb enough to give myself away by talking about previous discussions under a banned handle?

    This argument came up a few weeks ago. Someone ridiculously made the assertion that Betances and Chapman's struggles were proof that Rothschild should be fired. Of course this is without any knowledge of what instruction is being given out. When I challenged this assertion I made the point that if the pitching coach is to blame for poor performance than he should get credit for good performance. I used Severino as an example. This poster attributed all of that success to Pedro Martinez. Now the same argument is coming up. Rothschild is being blamed for Betances' struggles. Green was brought up as an example this time, by the way there are plenty to choose from. How about Warren who was a compete mess with the Cubs but excellent under Rothschild. You need an article to prove the correlation is causation. None is necessary though to hang failure on him. Like I said earlier same old, same old.
    Whatever, man. Never implied you had a "fake persona". I implied that perhaps you've posted here before under a different username. Your posts typically display a certain level of arrogance and condescension that seems to imply that you've been here before. Unusual for a new member who isn't trolling (and I don't believe you are).

    Regardless, your argument is seriously flawed:

    • Regarding Pedro: Why is it coming up again? Maybe because it's a fact? It's been well-documented, via multiple reputable sources, that Pedro Martinez played a pivotal role in Severino's transformation. Severino himself fully credits Pedro for helping him re-establish his change-up and adjust his mechanics during the 4 weeks they worked together. As such, your "assertion" is incorrect. Furthermore, why couldn't his own pitching coach accomplish that?

    • Would you not agree that a primary responsibility of any pitching coach is to identify and correct mechanical flaws in his pitchers when they are slumping? How does a team have 3 star pitchers, all reasonably healthy, under the age of 30, and not experiencing diminishing skills, struggle for unprecedented and sustained periods of time if their pitching coach has identified and corrected their mechanical flaws? Has Rothschild fulfilled his primary responsibility?

    That leaves us with Warren. So in a nutshell, you want to retain Rothschild because he helped fix Warren - despite the fact he has largely failed when it comes to our #1 starter, and two most important relievers going into the season. Gotcha.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  20. #10545
    Released Outright awy's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Official Regular Season Thread

    hall of mirrors

  21. #10546

    Re: 2017 Official Regular Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post
    Whatever, man. Never implied you had a "fake persona". I implied that perhaps you've posted here before under a different username. Your posts typically display a certain level of arrogance and condescension that seems to imply that you've been here before. Unusual for a new member who isn't trolling (and I don't believe you are).

    Regardless, your argument is seriously flawed:

    Regarding Pedro: Why is it coming up again? Maybe because it's a fact? It's been well-documented, via multiple reputable sources, that Pedro Martinez played a pivotal role in Severino's transformation. Severino himself fully credits Pedro for helping him re-establish his change-up and adjust his mechanics during the 4 weeks they worked together. As such, your "assertion" is incorrect. Furthermore, why couldn't his own pitching coach accomplish that?

    Would you not agree that a primary responsibility of any pitching coach is to identify and correct mechanical flaws in his pitchers when they are slumping? How does a team have 3 star pitchers, all reasonably healthy, under the age of 30, and not experiencing diminishing skills, struggle for unprecedented and sustained periods of time if their pitching coach has identified and corrected their mechanical flaws? Has Rothschild fulfilled his primary responsibility?

    That leaves us with Warren. So in a nutshell, you want to retain Rothschild because he helped fix Warren - despite the fact he has largely failed when it comes to our #1 starter, and two most important relievers going into the season. Gotcha.
    What you are perceiving as arrogance is attributable to my disbelief at the lack of objectivity of many posters. People confidently calling for the manager and the coaches being fired in the middle of surprisingly successful season. One where the pitching has played a very big role. You did it again. Pedro gets some credit for Severino, I agree. It's a long season, one that included a few breakdowns by Severino. I suppose Pedro broke that down for Severino too because Rothschild can't possibly get any credit. Another poster references that there is a lot of cherry picking when it comes to the pitching coach. I completely agree. He gets the blame for Tanaka, Betances and Chapman. He gets no credit for Severino, Sabathia, Montgomery, Green, and Warren however.

    Yeah I'm sarcastic when I read people making statements with an amazing amount of confidence on matters they have no idea about. I don't know how good a pitching coach Rothschild is. I do know there has been more success stories this year than failures. That is a fact. Don't let that get in the way of labeling someone a problem or worse calling for their job though.

  22. #10547
    Brien "The Incident" just-blaze's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Official Regular Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Can't win. Last year this time folks were complaining he was tired from overuse, this year he's rusty from not enough work?
    You can. Just give relievers consistent work and don't overuse them. Its a tough balance to maintain, Ill admit, but I think Joe has had a bad year of managing the pen this year.

    Its why we've had such up and downs this year in the pen IMO.

  23. #10548

    Re: 2017 Official Regular Season Thread

    The Yankees lead the league in errors committed by the opposition. They just keep coming!

  24. #10549

    Re: 2017 Official Regular Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by just-blaze View Post
    You can. Just give relievers consistent work and don't overuse them. Its a tough balance to maintain, Ill admit, but I think Joe has had a bad year of managing the pen this year.

    Its why we've had such up and downs this year in the pen IMO.
    I would agree it's not been his best year managing the pen. It's generally a strength. This year it hasn't been as good. I am happy to see a quicker hook recently on Betances.

  25. #10550

    Re: 2017 Official Regular Season Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post
    Whatever, man. Never implied you had a "fake persona". I implied that perhaps you've posted here before under a different username. Your posts typically display a certain level of arrogance and condescension that seems to imply that you've been here before. Unusual for a new member who isn't trolling (and I don't believe you are).

    Regardless, your argument is seriously flawed:

    Regarding Pedro: Why is it coming up again? Maybe because it's a fact? It's been well-documented, via multiple reputable sources, that Pedro Martinez played a pivotal role in Severino's transformation. Severino himself fully credits Pedro for helping him re-establish his change-up and adjust his mechanics during the 4 weeks they worked together. As such, your "assertion" is incorrect. Furthermore, why couldn't his own pitching coach accomplish that?

    Would you not agree that a primary responsibility of any pitching coach is to identify and correct mechanical flaws in his pitchers when they are slumping? How does a team have 3 star pitchers, all reasonably healthy, under the age of 30, and not experiencing diminishing skills, struggle for unprecedented and sustained periods of time if their pitching coach has identified and corrected their mechanical flaws? Has Rothschild fulfilled his primary responsibility?

    That leaves us with Warren. So in a nutshell, you want to retain Rothschild because he helped fix Warren - despite the fact he has largely failed when it comes to our #1 starter, and two most important relievers going into the season. Gotcha.
    I appreciate the spirited argument by the way!

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