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  1. #1826
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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    I want to agree with Bill here, but if you look at Green's game log, you'll see there is no pattern for when he pitches. Sometimes there are 2 days between outings, sometimes there are 5 days. He didn't have to bring in Green yesterday under any circumstances.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statsd.aspx...552&position=P

  2. #1827

    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    I want to agree with Bill here, but if you look at Green's game log, you'll see there is no pattern for when he pitches. Sometimes there are 2 days between outings, sometimes there are 5 days. He didn't have to bring in Green yesterday under any circumstances.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statsd.aspx...552&position=P
    You're right. There's only a general pattern, not a rigidly consistent one. I'm only spitballing here, speculating in an attempt to make some sense of what on the surface doesn't make sense.

    Girardi has been called every name in the book on this forum. He seems to be regarded as the village idiot who has neither the brains nor the temperament for the job. But neither is true. He's an experienced baseball man who had the brains to earn an engineering degree from an Ivy League caliber university and who generally shows a steady, even temperament. So why not try to consider an explanation that a reasonable person might have for the decisions he's made?

    There are different and legitimate ways to approach the same situation. We all have our preferences. Disagreements with the manager based on different preferences with a different rationale are interesting. Disagreements based on him being the village idiot seem to me to be the lazy way to evaluate what he does. Not pointing a finger at you for that, but all too often that seems to be the case with various posters here.

    Regardless what the exact pattern of use has been for Green, I've never once heard anyone mention his injury status. We hear that all the time ad nauseum abou Tanaka with posters literally having said that his arm is going to explode at any time and that the Yankees were crazy for not having sent him for surgery. Yet never a peep about Green whose situation last year was dire enough for surgery to have been considered. This has to be a factor that Girardi is dealing with.

    In addition, posters seem to just assume that Green has overnight become an Ace reliever without regard for his career record or even his recent record to start this season or in the second half last year. Other than the first few months of 2016 at AAA, when has Green ever showen that he could have the kind of major league success that he's experienced this season? How many times before have we seen some flash in the pan have a burst of success in the minors at age 25 and then fail at the major league level after he's been around the league a few times? The complaints we've heard treat Green as though he's the 2nd coming of Mariano Rivera and Girardi is just a dolt for not recognizing that. Maybe Green will eventually become a star, but until he gets there he's just a major league newcomer struggling to establish himself. And Girardi is the manager who's successfully nursed him along to get him this far.

  3. #1828
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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    I have no problems with not using Green in consecutive games. But he pitched Thursday. Would have rather seen him get a third day off and possibly pitching him in a meaningful situation tonight than using him yesterday with a large lead again.

  4. #1829
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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    I want to agree with Bill here, but if you look at Green's game log, you'll see there is no pattern for when he pitches. Sometimes there are 2 days between outings, sometimes there are 5 days. He didn't have to bring in Green yesterday under any circumstances.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statsd.aspx...552&position=P
    Well that straight murdered that argument. Like 4-5 gunshots to the face.
    Calmer than you are

    7/30/2017: The day the Minnesota Twins bought a prospect from the New York Yankees.

  5. #1830

    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Well that straight murdered that argument. Like 4-5 gunshots to the face.
    Did you even read Bill's response to that?
    /sarcasm
    KayNOTForPresident

  6. #1831
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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KayForPresident View Post
    Did you even read Bill's response to that?
    Yes. A whole lotta fluff IMO.

    Girardi is either on a rigid schedule with Green or he isn't. From the game logs (facts) he isn't. Therefore, he should be more flexible in not pitching Green in blowouts. I kind of see it as simple as that. Not sure why it's getting so convoluted.
    Calmer than you are

    7/30/2017: The day the Minnesota Twins bought a prospect from the New York Yankees.

  7. #1832
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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Green seems to be thriving on predictability.
    Barf.

  8. #1833

    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by teknetic View Post
    Barf.
    Please use the bags provided.

  9. #1834

    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Bill,

    I'm all for Joe bringing in a guy in a "fire-man" role regardless of inning, like he did with Green yesterday. Totally on board. But once the fire is out and the lead is still more than comfortable, why use that arm for mop up duty? Two innings beyond the high leverage situation he was needed for was beyond unnecessary. There are plenty of inning eating capable guys like Caleb Smith out there that can be used (and was, later) for that role.
    Bad manager.

  10. #1835

    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    I agree that we should try to understand why an intelligent guy like Girardi would do what he does, rather than just call him an idiot. And I agree that there may be a good reason for Green to be used in multiple innings in fewer outings.

    But I do not agree that this means Green has to be told in advance when he is going to pitch those innings, rather than might pitch those innings, regardless of the game situation. I think the pattern of his use, as displayed above, is more consistent with Girardi being committed to a fixed plan before a game than it is simply with protecting and nurturing Green. Girardi indeed says he has a game plan worked out for his pitchers and justifies his use of the pitchers by referencing the plan. I think Girardi thinks this is the best way to handle a pitching staff, and I do not think most managers follow the same path. I agree with most managers on this.

    And, apart from injury concerns, Green's performance history is pretty much irrelevant to how he is used now. What should matter is his current performance.

  11. #1836
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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    A very wise use of DRob in the 5th.

    Followed by ruining it by using DRob in the 6th.



    Baby steps.
    Equally as calm as ClownPickle ~(+/- 1)

  12. #1837
    Calls a tool a tool
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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    A very wise use of DRob in the 5th.

    Followed by ruining it by using DRob in the 6th.



    Baby steps.
    What did you think about the 7th? Ducks

  13. #1838

    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Personally, I think D-Rob's usage tonight was great.

  14. #1839

    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    A very wise use of DRob in the 5th.

    Followed by ruining it by using DRob in the 6th.



    Baby steps.

    What? how can you possibly complain about his usage tonight? he went 2 1/3rd and only threw 34 pitches.


    Girardi used the bullpen nearly perfectly tonight.

  15. #1840
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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    A very wise use of DRob in the 5th.

    Followed by ruining it by using DRob in the 6th.



    Baby steps.
    With Green unavailable Joe really had no choice than to use Robertson as long as possible.

  16. #1841
    NYYF Cy Young


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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Joe really surprised me last night. Big for me was taking CC out in the 5th. I know he did NOT want to and saw him go over to talk to CC afterwards. CC did NOT get the W. BIG. Then having DRob throw 2 2/3 innings with only 36 pitches. WOW. He did NOT take DRob out with 1 inning that Joe wanted to and put another worst pitcher for 1 inning... BIG

    Nice Job, Joe.

  17. #1842

    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rajah View Post
    I agree that we should try to understand why an intelligent guy like Girardi would do what he does, rather than just call him an idiot. And I agree that there may be a good reason for Green to be used in multiple innings in fewer outings.

    But I do not agree that this means Green has to be told in advance when he is going to pitch those innings, rather than might pitch those innings, regardless of the game situation. I think the pattern of his use, as displayed above, is more consistent with Girardi being committed to a fixed plan before a game than it is simply with protecting and nurturing Green. Girardi indeed says he has a game plan worked out for his pitchers and justifies his use of the pitchers by referencing the plan. I think Girardi thinks this is the best way to handle a pitching staff, and I do not think most managers follow the same path. I agree with most managers on this.

    And, apart from injury concerns, Green's performance history is pretty much irrelevant to how he is used now. What should matter is his current performance.
    Great post. Except for the last sentence, kinda. We have to be mindful of the fact that these are still younger guys on this team and some are still developing. I don't think they require coddling but at the same time Joe should not lose sight of that. It's a balancing act for sure.

    Lastly, I think we're seeing Joe be more flexible in his approach as September wears on as evidenced by last night.
    /sarcasm
    KayNOTForPresident

  18. #1843

    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Is this for real? How is Romine allowed to hit there? Horrific. Fireable offense on its own.

  19. #1844
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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    You have Judge, Holliday, and possibly Bird to PH for Clint and Romine, and you do neither.

    So very bad at this. Needs to go.
    Calmer than you are

    7/30/2017: The day the Minnesota Twins bought a prospect from the New York Yankees.

  20. #1845

    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    You have Judge, Holliday, and possibly Bird to PH for Clint and Romine, and you do neither.

    So very bad at this. Needs to go.
    terrible but joe has a habit with a lead of leaving his scrub players hit...

  21. #1846
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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    All I can add to this is LOL.

  22. #1847
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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    You have Judge, Holliday, and possibly Bird to PH for Clint and Romine, and you do neither.

    So very bad at this. Needs to go.
    Guys, this "ClownPicknose" not realizing that Girardis has access to "iNsiders information" that the rest of us don't have, guys. Guys, Roy Holliday and Aaron Judge are likely "under the weathers" or needing "rest", guysm.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  23. #1848

    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    I dare somebody to defend this. It's laughable the way this guy is managing in a pennant race. This team is pretty easily in first place with a better manager.

  24. #1849

    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    This has been Girardi's worst season. He's constantly somehow either over-managing or under-managing. It's a difficult thing to accomplish. He should go regardless of the outcome of the rest of the season.

  25. #1850
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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pleasepassthesoup View Post
    This has been Girardi's worst season. He's constantly somehow either over-managing or under-managing. It's a difficult thing to accomplish. He should go regardless of the outcome of the rest of the season.
    Last season was way worse. The September Boston Series seals it.
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