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  1. #3176
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by just-blaze View Post
    Do you notice that you are just pulling up successful retreads?

    Why is it that we can't find a bench coach, minor league coach, or outside of the box who could do the same? Its such a fallacy to think that only either you have to have previous ML experience or some experience in "managing".

    Joe isn't known for developing a young team, albeit they definitely rallied around him admittedly this series.

    Im willing to admit that I definitely jumped the gun. This rally back isn't a fluke. That being said, this fallacy that Joe is the best available option needs to stop as well.
    Every great MLB manager started with no MLB managerial experience.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  2. #3177
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KayForPresident View Post
    How many Ks did he have at that point? He was cruising. Game 2 he pulled CC too early, right? Come on.
    He had a bunch of Ks. He had put a lot of effort into those Ks. He wasn't cruising anymore. Before Perez's single, I said that he should have been out already.

    I didn't make a big deal out of his yanking CC too early in game 2, but what if I did? Different games. Different situations. There's nothing wrong with different criticisms.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  3. #3178

    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rajah View Post
    The Yankees are not going to be able to bring him back on a one year contract. He can get multiyear contracts elsewhere for next year if he wishes. They are going to have to give him a raise to keep him. And after the ALDS win, they probably will do so if he does not insist on too much. Personally, I still think they could do better, but they also could do a lot worse and they are not going to want to take the chance, especially with the team and fans behind him now.
    I say "probably" above only because there is more ball to be played and thus still time for another reversal of fan sentiments.
    I don't know about that. CC is a family man. He and his wife have 4 children, ages 14, 12, 9, and 7. They moved to NJ and established their home there when he signed with the Yankees 8 years ago.

    He has to know the end is coming soon. So the question is whether he wants to uproot the family so he can chase one more year, or two, or three some place else or whether he wants to be separated from his family for months at a time.

    It may be that he'd be perfectly happy to play out the string one year at a time with the Yankees - especially if the Yankees commit to some type of long term relationship with him in retirement. He became very close with Andy Pettitte over the years and he watched Andy nurse his career through those final seasons, and he watched the Yankees repeatedly bring him back on those one year deals. He's seen that it can work.

  4. #3179

    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    He had a bunch of Ks. He had put a lot of effort into those Ks. He wasn't cruising anymore. Before Perez's single, I said that he should have been out already.

    I didn't make a big deal out of his yanking CC too early in game 2, but what if I did? Different games. Different situations. There's nothing wrong with different criticisms.
    I too thought it was time for him to come out before Perez. But in fairness Perez was a .207 hitter this year and Urshela batted .224.

  5. #3180
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    I too thought it was time for him to come out before Perez. But in fairness Perez was a .207 hitter this year and Urshela batted .224.
    Maybe it was arguable, but the previous poster was basically ridiculing the idea. It wasn't ridiculous at all.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  6. #3181
    Hello dum-dum... effdamets's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    I too thought it was time for him to come out before Perez. But in fairness Perez was a .207 hitter this year and Urshela batted .224.
    I was surprised that JG didn't go to Green after the first hit that made it 3-1.
    Just to get out of that inning.
    But maybe the matchup didn't favor that move.


    It all worked out.


    I certainly was nervous putting Chapman out there for 6 outs.
    "Leave it to Yankees fans to be upset at having too many great players.”—Hitman23

  7. #3182
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by effdamets View Post
    I certainly was nervous putting Chapman out there for 6 outs.
    Yes, I thought he should have put Green or Kahnle in there, going one batter at a time.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  8. #3183

    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    I don't know about that. CC is a family man. He and his wife have 4 children, ages 14, 12, 9, and 7. They moved to NJ and established their home there when he signed with the Yankees 8 years ago.

    He has to know the end is coming soon. So the question is whether he wants to uproot the family so he can chase one more year, or two, or three some place else or whether he wants to be separated from his family for months at a time.

    It may be that he'd be perfectly happy to play out the string one year at a time with the Yankees - especially if the Yankees commit to some type of long term relationship with him in retirement. He became very close with Andy Pettitte over the years and he watched Andy nurse his career through those final seasons, and he watched the Yankees repeatedly bring him back on those one year deals. He's seen that it can work.
    I was writing about Girardi, and so was the original poster I quoted. This is the Girardi thread; I am not sure why you would assume I meant CC. (FWIW, anyway, I agree with you about CC>)

  9. #3184
    NYYF Legend

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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Yes, I thought he should have put Green or Kahnle in there, going one batter at a time.
    Likewise. After the 30 minute T9, his command was very spotty on Ramírez in the bottom half and he walked. I was sure we were looking at two straight walks and a dinger if Joe left him in. But Chappy pulled it together, struck out the parrot walker, got Santana on a ground-out, struck out AJ and made Girardi a Genius.
    "Deep to left! Yastrzemski will not get it! It's a home run! A three-run homer by Bucky Dent! And the Yankees now lead by a score of 3-2!" - New York Yankees announcer Bill White (October 2, 1978)

  10. #3185
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by theDurk View Post
    Likewise. After the 30 minute T9, his command was very spotty on Ramírez in the bottom half and he walked. I was sure we were looking at two straight walks and a dinger if Joe left him in. But Chappy pulled it together, struck out the parrot walker, got Santana on a ground-out, struck out AJ and made Girardi a Genius.
    Actually, I was talking about the 8th inning. Bring in Green or Kahnle to start the inning, let them go one out at a time, and have Chapman ready to come in as soon as a guy gets on base. Try to save Chapman an out or two or three.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  11. #3186
    I.P. Standing Krall's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Thanks Joe for making the world right again!

  12. #3187

    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Actually, I was talking about the 8th inning. Bring in Green or Kahnle to start the inning, let them go one out at a time, and have Chapman ready to come in as soon as a guy gets on base. Try to save Chapman an out or two or three.
    It's the age-old question that we debate all the time -- if you use fewer pitchers to get more outs each, you run the risk that one of these guys runs out of gas or is ineffective after having to sit. But if you use more pitchers to get fewer outs each, you run the risk that any one of those guys doesn't have it tonight.

    There are obvious pros and cons to both approaches but I think Girardi's choice was defensive even before the outcome was known. What we didn't get to see, and will never know, is how Girardi would have handled things had the Yankees not scored twice in the top of the 9th. Would he have had Kahnle up? He should have.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  13. #3188
    Slow in, Fast out ThePinStripes's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Yankees are playing baseball and the Red Sox aren't. All is fine in the world.
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

  14. #3189
    Hello dum-dum... effdamets's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    Yankees are playing baseball and the Red Sox aren't. All is fine in the world.
    It's awesome to revel in this fact!
    "Leave it to Yankees fans to be upset at having too many great players.”—Hitman23

  15. #3190
    NYYF Legend

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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Actually, I was talking about the 8th inning. Bring in Green or Kahnle to start the inning, let them go one out at a time, and have Chapman ready to come in as soon as a guy gets on base. Try to save Chapman an out or two or three.
    I know. I was saying I thought the same thing, Then Joe did something else--pitched Chappie for six--and I was sure it was going to blow up on him and prove us both right. And then it didn't and proved he was right...or lucky.
    "Deep to left! Yastrzemski will not get it! It's a home run! A three-run homer by Bucky Dent! And the Yankees now lead by a score of 3-2!" - New York Yankees announcer Bill White (October 2, 1978)

  16. #3191

    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rajah View Post
    I was writing about Girardi, and so was the original poster I quoted. This is the Girardi thread; I am not sure why you would assume I meant CC. (FWIW, anyway, I agree with you about CC>)
    Sorry about that. Multi-tasking can lead to mistakes.

  17. #3192
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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    Yankees are playing baseball and the Red Sox aren't. All is fine in the world.
    There are suddenly a lot of Astros fans in Beantown, if you believe my Soxfan-rich Facebook feed. Let's hand them another disappointment, or two!
    "Deep to left! Yastrzemski will not get it! It's a home run! A three-run homer by Bucky Dent! And the Yankees now lead by a score of 3-2!" - New York Yankees announcer Bill White (October 2, 1978)

  18. #3193
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theDurk View Post
    There are suddenly a lot of Astros fans in Beantown, if you believe my Soxfan-rich Facebook feed. Let's hand them another disappointment, or two!
    To be fair, a lot of poster here were probably Astros fans a few days ago.

    On second thought, no need to be fair to BoSox fans.

  19. #3194
    Administrator Bub's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    Yankees are playing baseball and the Red Sox aren't. All is fine in the world.
    Since a lot of folks like to second guess Girardi's strategy, and were somewhat accusing him of not trying hard enough to win the division by resting players, it really didn't matter, as it turns out, that the Yanks didn't win the division. Maybe it helped them get to this point.
    Let the kids play.

  20. #3195

    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Yes, I thought he should have put Green or Kahnle in there, going one batter at a time.
    why be nervous usiang your best relief pitcher by far in chapman for 2 innings.. that is a head scratcher....

  21. #3196

    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nyyankeefan4life View Post
    why be nervous usiang your best relief pitcher by far in chapman for 2 innings.. that is a head scratcher....

    Makes no sense to me either. Isn't he the highest-paid reliever ever? If you give him that massive contract, but don't trust him to get a six-out save -- which every manager in every big-game situation has done when having a bonafide closer -- then there's no point in having him at all. I'm glad Joe did it. He has to be able to get six outs there, otherwise he's not the closer you think he is.

    I love what Joe is doing with the rotation in this series -- he clearly does not have the confidence in Gray that others do. I'd rather see Tanaka at home, but Gray isn't pitching nearly well enough to sort it out that way, so this is the next best option.

  22. #3197
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nyyankeefan4life View Post
    why be nervous usiang your best relief pitcher by far in chapman for 2 innings.. that is a head scratcher....
    The guy throws harder than anyone, ever. Sunday night it was pretty clear that he gets tired quickly.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  23. #3198
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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by just-blaze View Post
    Joe isn't known for developing a young team, albeit they definitely rallied around him admittedly this series.
    Eh? I realize I'm plucking one line out of a post that covered bigger ground, but Girardi has had exactly one season in his career before this one that involved "developing a young team": the 2006 Marlins who stayed in the WC race until the last week and won 78 games with a team the pundits were expecting to lose 110.

    Then this year. If you want to credit him for the team winning 91 when "experts" had them more or less in the 78-83 range, or criticize him because Pythagoras says they should have won 100, is up to you. But insinuating there's some convincing body of evidence that he isn't good with young players is kind of like saying first-term Churchill "wasn't known for sound economic policy." How do we know? That wasn't the job presented to him.

  24. #3199

    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNewman View Post
    Eh? I realize I'm plucking one line out of a post that covered bigger ground, but Girardi has had exactly one season in his career before this one that involved "developing a young team": the 2006 Marlins who stayed in the WC race until the last week and won 78 games with a team the pundits were expecting to lose 110.

    Then this year. If you want to credit him for the team winning 91 when "experts" had them more or less in the 78-83 range, or criticize him because Pythagoras says they should have won 100, is up to you. But insinuating there's some convincing body of evidence that he isn't good with young players is kind of like saying first-term Churchill "wasn't known for sound economic policy." How do we know? That wasn't the job presented to him.
    To add to your point, I'll propose that his work in developing this young team has actually been a project over the past 2-3 years. This staff has worked with Severino over the past 3 years to get him to where he is now. Green for the past 2 years and Shreve for the past 3. Then there's been Montgomery this year.

    On the offensive side, Didi has been a work in progress for the last 3 years. Bird came up the same year. Judge, Sanchez, Torreyes, and Hicks have all been works in progress for the past 2 years.

  25. #3200
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    Re: 2017 Joe Girardi Performance Thread

    This quote from last night's NLDS postgame is 1000% out of an alternate universe where Girardi challenged in Cleveland. It's borderline spooky.

    http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2...s-jose-lobaton

    And Maddon knew he had to challenge it.

    "You've just got to," Maddon said. "You've got to. I looked for Anthony all the time. You have to trust your guys on the field, but there's no reason to not. We have two challenges. It's that part of the game. There's no reason to not challenge right there."
    Jaret Wright's 2005 Cy Young Season: 20-3, 3.04 ERA

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