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Thread: Healthcare

  1. #1576
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by philleotardo View Post
    As a direct result of wasting time on ACA repeal, CHIP expired last night.


    http://www.latimes.com/business/hilt...929-story.html
    What terrible people. They can't even pretend anymore that this was about actual healthcare.
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  2. #1577

    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    What terrible people. They can't even pretend anymore that this was about actual healthcare.
    You're terrible people.

  3. #1578
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlw1980 View Post
    You're terrible people.
    Now that I dispute, especially in the context of these genuinely terrible people. Besides, that’s a weak effort. That post was best left alone, but if you had to say something, “You can’t even pretend anymore that you’re about actual healthcare" would have shown more imagination.

  4. #1579

    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Now that I dispute, especially in the context of these genuinely terrible people. Besides, that’s a weak effort. That post was best left alone, but if you had to say something, “You can’t even pretend anymore that you’re about actual healthcare" would have shown more imagination.
    You're a weak effort.

  5. #1580
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    Re: Healthcare

    Just remember, The GOP insists that the Vegas shooter's gun arsenal is "a right," but medical treatment for his 500+ survivors is merely "a privilege."

  6. #1581

    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan View Post
    Just remember, The GOP insists that the Vegas shooter's gun arsenal is "a right," but medical treatment for his 500+ survivors is merely "a privilege."
    Was this ever posted here?

    https://thinkprogress.org/ron-johnso...-1d9fe371b55a/

    When asked by a high school student in Wisconsin whether he considered health care a right or a privilege, Sen. Ron Johnson (R-WI) compared access to health care to access to food and shelter, arguing that all three should be considered “privileges” for those who can afford them.

    “I think it’s probably more of a privilege,” Johnson said in response to the question. “Do you consider food a right? Do you consider clothing a right? Do you consider shelter a right? What we have as rights are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We have the right to freedom. Past that point, everything else is a limited resource that we have to use our opportunities given to us so that we can afford those things.”


  7. #1582

    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan View Post
    Just remember, The GOP insists that the Vegas shooter's gun arsenal is "a right," but medical treatment for his 500+ survivors is merely "a privilege."
    I read this tweet also.

  8. #1583
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    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan View Post
    Just remember, The GOP insists that the Vegas shooter's gun arsenal is "a right," but medical treatment for his 500+ survivors is merely "a privilege."
    You have a right to buy the gun but need to be privileged to afford one. I don't think he favors the government giving everyone a gun.

    Of course buying guns are a relatively cheap privilege considering the number of other people you can depriving to their right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness with one or a dozen guns.
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  9. #1584
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Healthcare

    I'll say again: healthcare isn't a right so much as a societal responsibility.

  10. #1585
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    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I'll say again: healthcare isn't a right so much as a societal responsibility.
    Once society assumes that responsibility, does it not then become an individual right? So when people say it should be a right, are they not saying that society should assume that responsibility? It is also true that the right is conditional, as most people will have to contribute something of their own, as in the case of Medicare.

    I'd say it is two sides of the same coin.

    Personally, I don't think it is a right. I do think the private sector solution has fallen on its face and proven completely inadequate. This leaves society no choice to replace it with a better system to provide affordable access to healthcare for all.
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  11. #1586
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    Quote Originally Posted by theDurk View Post
    Once society assumes that responsibility, does it not then become an individual right? So when people say it should be a right, are they not saying that society should assume that responsibility? It is also true that the right is conditional, as most people will have to contribute something of their own, as in the case of Medicare.

    I'd say it is two sides of the same coin.

    Personally, I don't think it is a right. I do think the private sector solution has fallen on its face and proven completely inadequate. This leaves society no choice to replace it with a better system to provide affordable access to healthcare for all.
    In other words, you don't think it's a right, but you think society should be responsible for making sure it's provided.

    They may be two sides of the same coin, but that doesn't mean heads and tails are the same thing. A right is something that inheres to the individual, who can then demand it. A responsibility is something freely given, like putting food on your children's table.

  12. #1587
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    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    In other words, you don't think it's a right, but you think society should be responsible for making sure it's provided.

    They may be two sides of the same coin, but that doesn't mean heads and tails are the same thing. A right is something that inheres to the individual, who can then demand it. A responsibility is something freely given, like putting food on your children's table.
    I think he's saying it's a distinction without a difference once society takes on that role.

    But sure they are technically different.

    And like you I think we should be taking it on as societal responsibility.
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  13. #1588
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    Re: Healthcare

    Sounds like Trump trying to override ACA by executive order. That should go over well in the courts.
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  14. #1589
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    Re: Healthcare

    Trump about to sign executive order allowing groups to cross state boundaries to buy health insurance. First,it is not illegal now to do that. Second how can an executive order override a law?
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  15. #1590
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    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    how can an executive order override a law?
    Isn't that exactly what Obama did with DACA? And with the employer mandate on the ACA? And on extending ACA subsidies?


    I'm with you. Congress is supposed to pass laws, and the Executive Branch is supposed to carry them out. Obama didn't like that model, and he by-passed Congress via Executive Order. The time to gripe about EOs vs. laws was eight years ago, when the President usurped power that was supposed to reside with the Congress.

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  16. #1591
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    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Isn't that exactly what Obama did with DACA? And with the employer mandate on the ACA? And on extending ACA subsidies?


    I'm with you. Congress is supposed to pass laws, and the Executive Branch is supposed to carry them out. Obama didn't like that model, and he by-passed Congress via Executive Order. The time to gripe about EOs vs. laws was eight years ago, when the President usurped power that was supposed to reside with the Congress.
    What is puzzling is the EO is authorizing something which was never disallowed to begin with
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  17. #1592
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    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Isn't that exactly what Obama did with DACA? And with the employer mandate on the ACA? And on extending ACA subsidies?


    I'm with you. Congress is supposed to pass laws, and the Executive Branch is supposed to carry them out. Obama didn't like that model, and he by-passed Congress via Executive Order. The time to gripe about EOs vs. laws was eight years ago, when the President usurped power that was supposed to reside with the Congress.
    Well, this isn't exactly anything. Nothing currently prohibits this at the Federal level. It's just that no States currently allow it. If his order will cancel state authority to restrict insurance sold within their borders, that is new ground. As currently insurance regulation is the province of the States, it would seem that even a hard-core originalist Constitution type would oppose extending regulatory power over what is now exclusively under the States to the Feds via executive order. None of the mentioned Obama acts did that.

    This may need to be rethought when we actually see the order.
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  18. #1593
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    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Isn't that exactly what Obama did with DACA? And with the employer mandate on the ACA? And on extending ACA subsidies?


    I'm with you. Congress is supposed to pass laws, and the Executive Branch is supposed to carry them out. Obama didn't like that model, and he by-passed Congress via Executive Order. The time to gripe about EOs vs. laws was eight years ago, when the President usurped power that was supposed to reside with the Congress.
    People have been griping about executive orders for more than 8 year. And the gripes seem to coincide with whether or not your guy is in power or not.

    DACA is a perfect example, which is one of the reasons I didn't have much of a problem with Trump over riding it with his own. Even though I'm not thrilled with the result on that one.
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  19. #1594

    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    What is puzzling is the EO is authorizing something which was never disallowed to begin with
    He's making a habit of fighting phantom issues. A few days ago he put out a tweet refuting "Fake News" reports that he was about to fire Gen. Kelly. The problem is that prior to that tweet, there were no news stories reporting that Trump was about to fire Kelly.

  20. #1595

    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Isn't that exactly what Obama did with DACA? And with the employer mandate on the ACA? And on extending ACA subsidies?


    I'm with you. Congress is supposed to pass laws, and the Executive Branch is supposed to carry them out. Obama didn't like that model, and he by-passed Congress via Executive Order. The time to gripe about EOs vs. laws was eight years ago, when the President usurped power that was supposed to reside with the Congress.
    The problem is that Obama preferred that Congress pass a law to deal with immigration reform. He only issued the DACA EO as a last resort to deal with a pressing issue that Congress failed to move on.

    The difference between Obama and Trump is that Trump's own party is in control of both houses of Congress. He's in a perfect position to work with Congress to actually enact legislation to deal with this issue.

    It's time to stop making excuses for a president who can't get the most basic functions of his job done.
    Last edited by Bill Marsh; 10-13-17 at 07:07 AM.

  21. #1596
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    Re: Healthcare

    45 to end subsidies to lower income Americans on the ACA, essentially killing the ACA. Don’t get his way? Sabotage!
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  22. #1597

    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    45 to end subsidies to lower income Americans on the ACA, essentially killing the ACA. Don’t get his way? Sabotage!
    He is so damn despicable.

  23. #1598
    Let's go Rangers! RhodyYanksFan's Avatar
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    Re: Healthcare

    Arguably the worst part of this will be that there will absolutely be people out there who believe him (and Fox) when they go on to say "Look how badly Obamacare failed!" and still give him their support.

  24. #1599
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    Re: Healthcare

    The ACA this day forward is no longer ObamaCare. Trump has done so much to sabotage it and change it it will now be labeled Trumpcare. If it fails it is on him.
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  25. #1600
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    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    The ACA this day forward is no longer ObamaCare. Trump has done so much to sabotage it and change it it will now be labeled Trumpcare. If it fails it is on him.
    I know that. You know that. Anybody who has spent time listening and reading about health policy knows that. Hell, Sean Hannity knows that, but he'll still sell his millions of viewers a bill of goods that this is the Democrats fault - and some of them will buy it.

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