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Thread: Healthcare

  1. #26
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    RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees's Avatar
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    Re: Healthcare

    Single payer. I pay $185/month for my insurance through work (they pay most of the premium) and I'd gladly pay more to have single payer healthcare. As it is now, my $185/month won't do crap if I go to the hospital tomorrow, because I'll have to magically come up with $2000 before it kicks in.

    The last time I was in the hospital, I was taken in an ambulance and stayed overnight after I passed out at home due to low blood sugar. I was working 40+ hours a week, but my employer didn't offer insurance and my income was just low enough to qualify for Medicaid. The only thing I paid for was $15 to watch TV while I was there - if I had my current insurance, or was worse yet uninsured, I'd be in debt. No one should go broke because they had low blood sugar one day.

  2. #27
    Word of the Year is Complicit ojo's Avatar
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    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Man View Post
    Rights cannot impose an obligation on others. If I want to speak freely, no one is obligated to listen to me. If I want to pursue happiness, no one is obligated to make me happy. The administration of healthcare MUST impose an obligation on others ... either to provide the care or to pay for it or both, in other words, involuntary servitude, ergo healthcare is not a right.
    Spoken through the microphone of an intermediary driven pile of dogsh!t that is our healthcare system (where healthcare is but a commodity).

    I mean look: you can have yours (liberty?), but to me life and the pursuit of happiness are pretty well tied into the universal right to healthcare. But for an anomoly out of WW2 that somehow health insurance began being offered by employers to employees that we're in this mess. The whole model is messed up, right down to how you're treated and how doctors get paid.
    This is not America...No! https://youtu.be/neLXqbR_r0E

  3. #28
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Man View Post
    Rights cannot impose an obligation on others. If I want to speak freely, no one is obligated to listen to me. If I want to pursue happiness, no one is obligated to make me happy. The administration of healthcare MUST impose an obligation on others ... either to provide the care or to pay for it or both, in other words, involuntary servitude, ergo healthcare is not a right.
    Of course rights pose an obligation on others and particularly on society as a whole - on We The People. You don't have to make me hppy, but society can't obstruct it, either. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are enumerated as inaluenable, natural rights at a time when involuntary servitude was stil entirely legal.

    I hate this libertarian I-got-mine crap. We're not just a bunch of individuals watching out for number 1, we're a society with collective responsibility. I'm sorry if some child's cancer treatment takes a nickel out of your pocket. No, actually, I'm not.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
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  4. #29
    Released Outright awy's Avatar
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    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    It does if you cut the insurance companies out.
    yes, there will be some overhead with an insurance system. but some choice is meaningful here. you can regulate private insurances like utilities. insurances don't have leverage over providers and pharma etc. those supply side actors are really the problme in terms of cost.

    european countries are moving towards more private insurance but with high level of price and treatment regulation

  5. #30
    Let's go Rangers! RhodyYanksFan's Avatar
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    Re: Healthcare

    http://www.crfb.org/blogs/what-cbo-s...re-replacement

    What CBO Says About the House Obamacare Replacement

  6. #31

    Re: Healthcare

    First and foremost, cost of services has to be controlled. Single payer accomplishes this by setting prices and caps on medical services. I am not advocating for, or against, it. All I know is I am a healthy 45 yr old man who is paying $489 dollars a month for a plan with a 5k deductible and max $7,000 out of pocket.

    All I know is that before we could even think about SP in the US, governemnts, both state and federal, will have to get a whole lot more efficient in their billing and payment processing. I know many healthcare professionals who have nearly been put out of business due to paperwork snafus and severe lag times in getting paid.

    Also, I have discussed healthcare with some Canadiens and Aussies. Most generally carry supplemental policies at additional costs in order to go to "private" healthcare facilities.

  7. #32
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    Yankee Tripper's Avatar
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    Re: Healthcare

    Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump Mar 11




    We are making great progress with healthcare. ObamaCare is imploding and will only get worse. Republicans coming together to get job done!


    Well I'm reassured now, how about you?
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  8. #33

    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post

    Well I'm reassured now, how about you?
    I'm definitely reassured! Mostly because 45* is a stand up credible kinda guy.

    The CBO's other bombshell: the Affordable Care Act isn't imploding

    by Matthew Yglesias at Vox

    http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politi...implosion-ahca


    Beyond its eye-popping findings on higher premiums and large-scale coverage loss, the Congressional Budget Office’s official score of the American Health Care Act also quietly demolishes the central publicly stated rationale for repealing the Affordable Care Act. The key passage is a somewhat jargon-full sentence on the second page of the report that says, “In CBO and JCT’s assessment, however, the nongroup market would probably be stable in most areas under either current law or the legislation.”


    If that cycle were to simply continue unabated, the law really might implode. But CBO says that’s not what’s happening:

    Under current law, most subsidized enrollees purchasing health insurance coverage in the nongroup market are largely insulated from increases in premiums because their out-of-pocket payments for premiums are based on a percentage of their income; the government pays the difference. The subsidies to purchase coverage combined with the penalties paid by uninsured people stemming from the individual mandate are anticipated to cause sufficient demand for insurance by people with low health care expenditures for the market to be stable.

    Translating from wonk-ese, the subsidies offered to lower-income people under ACA are scaled both to income and to the local price of health insurance. Which means that for heavily subsidized customers, the higher premiums don’t drive people out of the marketplace. And there are enough young and healthy people who qualify for generous subsidies to ensure a stable long-term risk pool.
    The presidency doesn't change who you are. It reveals who you are. First Lady Michelle Obama (2015)

  9. #34

    Re: Healthcare

    Lil Eddie Munster waving the white flag to his House.

    Ryan: Health care plan must change to pass the House

    Source: The Washington Post



    By Mike DeBonis, Elise Viebeck and David Weigel March 15 at 7:21 PM

    House Speaker Paul D. Ryan said Wednesday that his health care proposal must change to pass the House, marking a significant retreat from his earlier position that the carefully crafted legislation would fail if altered.

    The shift came after a private meeting of House Republicans from which Ryan (R-Wis.) emerged to tell reporters that his proposal to revise the Affordable Care Act would “incorporate feedback” from the rank-and-file. Ryan attributed the change of strategy to the impact of an analysis issued Monday by the Congressional Budget Office. Among other details that prompted a fresh round of criticism of the proposal was a projection that 14 million fewer Americans would be insured after one year under the Republican plan.

    Ryan backed away on Wednesday from his previous rhetoric of calling the measure’s fate a “binary choice” for Republican lawmakers.

    “Now that we have our score ... we can make some necessary improvements and refinements to the bill,” he said, referring to the CBO’s estimate of the impact on the number of those covered by health insurance and what the GOP proposal would cost.


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/power...=.ce1f1fb9eae6
    The presidency doesn't change who you are. It reveals who you are. First Lady Michelle Obama (2015)

  10. #35
    Released Outright awy's Avatar
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    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by freebubba View Post
    First and foremost, cost of services has to be controlled. Single payer accomplishes this by setting prices and caps on medical services. I am not advocating for, or against, it. All I know is I am a healthy 45 yr old man who is paying $489 dollars a month for a plan with a 5k deductible and max $7,000 out of pocket.

    All I know is that before we could even think about SP in the US, governemnts, both state and federal, will have to get a whole lot more efficient in their billing and payment processing. I know many healthcare professionals who have nearly been put out of business due to paperwork snafus and severe lag times in getting paid.

    Also, I have discussed healthcare with some Canadiens and Aussies. Most generally carry supplemental policies at additional costs in order to go to "private" healthcare facilities.
    people read that into single payer, but it's not necessarily so. price control can be accomplished in a system with private insurance

  11. #36
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    montrealer's Avatar
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    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees View Post
    Single payer. I pay $185/month for my insurance through work (they pay most of the premium) and I'd gladly pay more to have single payer healthcare. As it is now, my $185/month won't do crap if I go to the hospital tomorrow, because I'll have to magically come up with $2000 before it kicks in.

    The last time I was in the hospital, I was taken in an ambulance and stayed overnight after I passed out at home due to low blood sugar. I was working 40+ hours a week, but my employer didn't offer insurance and my income was just low enough to qualify for Medicaid. The only thing I paid for was $15 to watch TV while I was there - if I had my current insurance, or was worse yet uninsured, I'd be in debt. No one should go broke because they had low blood sugar one day.
    One of my childhood friends(Charleston,SC) lost her job in 2009 along with her coverage and suffered a heart attack........long story short lost her home and within 6 months died due to not being able to follow up on her heath and more importantly life saving drugs........

    "Happy Wife.........Happy Life" - unknown

  12. #37

    Re: Healthcare

    http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-actio...H1NLI.facebook

    Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) said Tuesday that if Democrats don't like a House bill to repeal and replace ObamaCare, they should offer their own legislation.

    "if you don't like this proposal, then what's your suggestion? What's your suggestion?" he asked during a weekly Senate GOP leadership news conference.
    ....

  13. #38
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    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Texsahara View Post
    Talk about clueless.
    Posts in invisible key strokes

  14. #39

    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I hate this libertarian I-got-mine crap. We're not just a bunch of individuals watching out for number 1, we're a society with collective responsibility. I'm sorry if some child's cancer treatment takes a nickel out of your pocket. No, actually, I'm not.
    How about food? Is food a right? If anything is my right then I wouldn't have to pay for it. It would be owed to me. "It's my right!"

    A benevolent society would provide for those that can't provide for themselves but it is only through benevolence not due to any rights of the individuals.

    Take it to an extreme. Let's say that healthcare is a right. Therefore why does anyone need insurance? Just go to the emergency room when you get the sniffles and you'll be guaranteed treatment. After all, that's your right, right? If everyone chose that as their healthcare treatment method, then who would pay? Who would convey to all of us our rights? Who would force doctors and nurses to become doctors and nurses in order to administer my rights to me?

    Healthcare (and food) are not a right.
    I can't complain but sometimes I still do. - Joe Walsh

  15. #40

    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    people read that into single payer, but it's not necessarily so. price control can be accomplished in a system with private insurance
    Yes it can.

  16. #41
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Man View Post
    How about food? Is food a right? If anything is my right then I wouldn't have to pay for it. It would be owed to me. "It's my right!"

    A benevolent society would provide for those that can't provide for themselves but it is only through benevolence not due to any rights of the individuals.

    Take it to an extreme. Let's say that healthcare is a right. Therefore why does anyone need insurance? Just go to the emergency room when you get the sniffles and you'll be guaranteed treatment. After all, that's your right, right? If everyone chose that as their healthcare treatment method, then who would pay? Who would convey to all of us our rights? Who would force doctors and nurses to become doctors and nurses in order to administer my rights to me?

    Healthcare (and food) are not a right.

    I thought about it, and remembered what I've said in the past: Never mind whether it's a right or not. It's a societal responsibility. It's not something that's demanded by someone - "It's my right!" - it's something that's given.


    Also, taxation is not involuntary servitude.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  17. #42
    Let's go Rangers! RhodyYanksFan's Avatar
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    Re: Healthcare

    Here's a pretty good wonk-y chat about the policy of the proposed ACHA.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...lth-care-plan/

  18. #43
    Let's go Rangers! RhodyYanksFan's Avatar
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    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    people read that into single payer, but it's not necessarily so. price control can be accomplished in a system with private insurance
    Yes it can and does happen in just about every other first world nation.

  19. #44

    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I thought about it, and remembered what I've said in the past: Never mind whether it's a right or not. It's a societal responsibility. It's not something that's demanded by someone - "It's my right!" - it's something that's given.


    Also, taxation is not involuntary servitude.
    Nicely put. You want to live in a society that I would be proud to share.

  20. #45
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    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Texsahara View Post
    Nicely put. You want to live in a society that I would be proud to share.
    It is called being a human being.
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  21. #46
    Let's go Rangers! RhodyYanksFan's Avatar
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    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by yankeepride1967 View Post
    it is called being a human being.
    #maga

  22. #47
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
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    Re: Healthcare

    There's an interesting article in Forbes about WHY Rust Belt voters voted against their own best interests.


    https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisla.../#6625ccb186a6


    It defines employer-provided benefits and various tax breaks as "white socialism" and that they're considered more dignified because of the perception they're "earned" rather than "provided."

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
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  23. #48

    Re: Healthcare

    I had no idea that Truman introduced a plan for universal health coverage in 1945.

  24. #49

    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    There's an interesting article in Forbes about WHY Rust Belt voters voted against their own best interests.


    https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisla.../#6625ccb186a6


    It defines employer-provided benefits and various tax breaks as "white socialism" and that they're considered more dignified because of the perception they're "earned" rather than "provided."
    A Washington Post story described the experience of Clyde Graham, a long-unemployed coal worker who depends on the ACA for access to health care. He voted for Trump knowing it might cost him his health insurance out of his hope of capturing the great white unicorn – a new job in the mines. His stance is not unusual.
    Can't help 'em. Mines aren't coming back. So they're not only voting against their own interests, they're voting their fantasies.

  25. #50
    Released Outright awy's Avatar
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    Re: Healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Texsahara View Post
    I had no idea that Truman introduced a plan for universal health coverage in 1945.
    it died because private physicians opposed it, just like any efforts to seriously address medical inflation would be opposed by the same group of interests.

    the VA system was attacked a few years back for similar reasons, because a system of publicly run hospitals, as in, building a lot more of them, is really required to make 'single payer' (as people imagine it) work in the u.s.

    truman and for that matter, FDR's vision of national healthcare system built upon the expanded footprint of veteran healthcare after WW2.

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