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  1. #2826

    Re: The Official 2017 Aaron Judge Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    Joe Poz and Bill James recently raised some very interesting discussion about WAR. I highly recommend people to search for it.

    One of the discussion is that WAR may currently be the best available stats to measure players ability and performance but it may not be the best measure for MVP voting.
    Where did you read it?

  2. #2827
    NYYF Legend

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Where did you read it?

  3. #2828

    Re: The Official 2017 Aaron Judge Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNewman View Post
    In 1996 Mariano Rivera finished 3rd in Cy Young voting and should have won it. Neither of the two guys in front of him, Pat Hentgen or Andy Pettitte, had a truly "Cy Young" season though Hentgen came closer. Because David Cone made it back for postseason, people tend to forget that during the "long march" of that season he was unavailable, when Pettitte wasn't pitching, the Yankee rotation was: a diminished Jimmy Key coming off surgery, scared-of-New-York Kenny Rogers, superannuated Dwight Gooden and whatever sh!t they could find to throw against the wall on the 5th day (remember Wally Whitehurst lol?). They won by asking the starter (and whatever mix-n-match 6th inning combo Torre came up with) not to give up more than 4 runs, while they tried to score 5 runs over the full 9. The backbone of that strategy was Rivera and his insurmountable 7th-8th innings. "Only" 107 innings be damned, he wasn't just the best pitcher in the AL that year, he was transformative in how the game is played. It should have been him, but "middle relievers" couldn't win because .... uh, because. Who TF is Pat Hentgen?

    (apologies for Judge thread hijack)
    Sorry, but I simply can't wrap my head around the idea that a part time pitcher is better than a full time pitcher - even given how phenomenal Mo was that season and how important he was to the Yankees. Hentgen still pitched more than 2 and a half times as many innings - 265 to 107. To answer the question of best pitcher, all you have to do is ask whether Mo could have done what Hentgen did.

    And I don't see what was not "truly CY Young" about Hentgen's season that year. At the height of the high offense steroid era, his 3.22 ERA was very good. Compare his 156 ERA+ to the AL CY winners of recent years and it compares very favorably - as good or better than just about everyone except Kluber this season. And none of them were doing it over 265 innings. Hentgen led the league in a handful of different categories that year, including WAR for pitchers. He was a very deserving winner of the award.

  4. #2829

    Re: The Official 2017 Aaron Judge Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    Thanks. Greatly appreciate you for going to the trouble of posting the link. Fascinating read.

  5. #2830

    Re: The Official 2017 Aaron Judge Performance Thread

    here's Dave Cameron's response on fangraphs:

    the 1890's socialist Player's League, founded by workers:

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