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  1. #1051

    Re: 2017 Spring Training Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob035 View Post
    Adam F'ing Eaton got traded for a package with better headliners than Frazier + Judge. And we are now talking about Mike Trout who is one of the best players ever through his age 25 season (3rd all time in fWAR behind Mantle and Cobb).
    This.

    Red Sox gave up a top-5 prospect in Moncada (which would be Torres) and Kopech (which would be Kaprelian) for 3 years of Sale who is a #1 starter but 2.5 years older than Trout and a starting pitcher with a violent delivery. But yeah, Frazier/Judge will be enough to headline a trade b/c quantity + WAR totals + NTC = delusions

  2. #1052
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    Re: 2017 Spring Training Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NerfBall55 View Post
    So yeah, this is what I was getting at and I wish I didn't log off while the discussion happened.

    I'm the biggest Trout fan and agree with your assessment of him, and have followed all you guys and SABR conversations for the last decade.

    Trout's a 10 WAR player. But you know it doesn't just work by adding up WAR. Parting with a potential elite catcher on both sides of the dish, a productive above average first baseman, an everyday above average shortstop, and potential #1-2 starter etc for this 10 WAR player doesn't make the Yankees a a better team overall, let alone increases the risk profile of relying so much on one player. In other words, there IS a limit. Put it this way - emptying the farm for Trout makes them us and us them at moment, which none of us want. We have more future purchasing power, yes, but we can't buy everone.

    I think about this all the time because I recognize Trout's place in history vs what we have brewing, and think it would be perfect if he was a Yankee. But I'm not going to dismiss awy's thoughts on this one just yet, because I think we can offer tremendous value without giving up everyone.

    That's what makes the discussion interesting to me.
    Trout's due $102 million between 2018 and 2020. If they trade for him they're going to extend him multiple years at $34m AAV. In other words, this would likely remove the Yankees from the '18-'19 FA market.

    And considering what he'd cost to pry him from the Angels? Yikes.

    Now, were Trout to step on a drainage cover and tear up his knee...
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  3. #1053

    Re: 2017 Spring Training Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    Trout's due $102 million between 2018 and 2020. If they trade for him they're going to extend him multiple years at $34m AAV. In other words, this would likely remove the Yankees from the '18-'19 FA market.

    And considering what he'd cost to pry him from the Angels? Yikes.

    Now, were Trout to step on a drainage cover and tear up his knee...
    All good points too. The risk profile goes up tremendously.

    I never considered Trout, but what is cool is that we actually are in a spot that we have the pieces to land him.
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  4. #1054
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    Re: 2017 Spring Training Thread

    adam eaton is adam eaton, we are also not dealing volatile pitchers.

  5. #1055
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    Re: 2017 Spring Training Thread

    This Trout talk is so foolish.

    Why would we want to give up our depth anyway? Good FA's are coming, develop our young kids, grab one of them and we are set.

    For the LAA to even THINK about it Sanchez, Bird, Torres, and co. would need to be involved...We trade all those kids for Trout and we are the 2016 Angels a one man band and a 70 win team. Stupid.

    We finallllly have a deep farm with up and coming kids that will be able to build a core to help us...just be happy, we don't need to be talking about trading for Mike Trout. I'd rather keep the kids and sign a Harper/Machado instead of having just Trout minus the kids.
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  6. #1056

    Re: 2017 Spring Training Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JOBA RULES View Post
    we don't need to be talking about trading for Mike Trout.
    On behalf of those involved, our sincerest apologies for this transgression.
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  7. #1057
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    Re: 2017 Spring Training Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NerfBall55 View Post
    On behalf of those involved, our sincerest apologies for this transgression.
    It's pretty absurd to argue over something that has no chance of happening lol.
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  8. #1058
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    Re: 2017 Spring Training Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JOBA RULES View Post
    This Trout talk is so foolish.

    Why would we want to give up our depth anyway? Good FA's are coming, develop our young kids, grab one of them and we are set.

    For the LAA to even THINK about it Sanchez, Bird, Torres, and co. would need to be involved...We trade all those kids for Trout and we are the 2016 Angels a one man band and a 70 win team. Stupid.

    We finallllly have a deep farm with up and coming kids that will be able to build a core to help us...just be happy, we don't need to be talking about trading for Mike Trout. I'd rather keep the kids and sign a Harper/Machado instead of having just Trout minus the kids.
    Partly, the problem is that you can't keep all this young talent forever. Some will need to be traded or lost.
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  9. #1059
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    Re: 2017 Spring Training Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    Partly, the problem is that you can't keep all this young talent forever. Some will need to be traded or lost.
    Bird, Torres, and Sanchez aren't just "pieces".

    Bird and Sanchez are already going to be starting for this team and Torres is not far behind. They aren't a surplus they are needs. Sure other guys could be expendable, but if you're trading for Trout you are depleting the teams depth. Trouts been the best player in baseball for years...guys been to what? One playoff series and lost? Not his fault but you need guys around you. Yankees have depth and young talent + money to keep building on that. If you want Trout you're trading Bird, Sanchez, Torres, and probably Kap or a Sheff.

    You have a kid who looks like an all star catcher at age 24, your starting first baseman is 24, and you have a 20 yr old middle infielder who right now is the #3 prospect in all of baseball (Once Dansby gets one more AB he'll be 2) and could be a future stud. Trouts already there, already a superstar, but it takes more than one player to win. Give me the youth, depth, + money to build a team that can win for a long time.

    As far as your young talent comment goes where you can't keep them forever I completely agree. I think we have pieces to make some moves for pitchers and such. I just don't think we need to or should gut the system for a big guy like Trout when some rich FA classes are coming and we'll have money to spend.
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  10. #1060

    Re: 2017 Spring Training Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JOBA RULES View Post
    It's pretty absurd to argue over something that has no chance of happening lol.
    I will confer in the future with you before starting topics in order to avoid future absurdity.

    But it's not absurd really, given the situations of the two teams. One team going nowhere with a generational talent, and a storied franchise rebuilding/re-branding with the chips to acquire this player.

    Plus, hypotheticals+message boards kind of jive together.
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  11. #1061
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    Re: 2017 Spring Training Thread

    we all love trout, but the Yankees would literally have to deal their ML ready and current depth to get him. No thank you, I'd rather see the kids grow up in pinstripes. Sanchez, Bird, Judge, Torres, Frazier are exciting players and cost controlled that we can supplement with FA's. Sure, Trout is Trout but his price would be exceedingly foolish. I'm not putting all my eggs in one basket.

  12. #1062
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    Re: 2017 Spring Training Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NerfBall55 View Post
    Thank you for letting us know what we can discuss. I will confer in the future with you before starting topics.

    But it's not absurd really, given the situations of the two teams. One team going nowhere with a generational talent, and a storied franchise rebuilding/re-branding with the chips to acquire this player.
    Gotcha bro, I appreciate that good stuff.

    Again, Yankees trade for Trout they are in a similar situation the Angels have been.

    Minimal pitching, not much help in the lineup, and the farm takes a hit too. What happens if Tanaka walks?..and we end up trading Kap and Sheff or someone?
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  13. #1063
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    Re: 2017 Spring Training Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by smckdwn989 View Post
    we all love trout, but the Yankees would literally have to deal their ML ready and current depth to get him. No thank you, I'd rather see the kids grow up in pinstripes. Sanchez, Bird, Judge, Torres, Frazier are exciting players and cost controlled that we can supplement with FA's. Sure, Trout is Trout but his price would be exceedingly foolish. I'm not putting all my eggs in one basket.
    Bingo. Some sense.
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  14. #1064
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    Re: 2017 Spring Training Thread

    Having a cost controlled producing core of Sanchez, Bird, and Torres + money to spend could make us extremely deep and dangerous very soon. Lets keep that going shall we?

    Jury is still out on Judge (no pun intended) and I'm hoping Frazier starts to tear it up in AAA and can get here soon. The youth + talent would be off the charts. We could move some farm guys for other pieces and sign some FA's...we could build a team that could win for a loooong time.
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  15. #1065
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    Re: 2017 Spring Training Thread

    Sanchez, Bird, Torres ++ for a combined $1.5M, or Trout for $30M

  16. #1066
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    Re: 2017 Spring Training Thread

    i don't think you guys understand the composition of the yankees farm system. there is a boatload of guys with solid regular projection and decent likelihood. you'd need to make a big trade for an elite piece to get value out of them.

    it so happens that the angels have a bunch of negative value players on their team and extremely thin system. it's a great match and worth exploring, particularly given the comfort level the FOs likely have for each other as well as trout being an area kid so he might lobby for the trade if it appears likely.

  17. #1067
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    Re: 2017 Spring Training Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    i don't think you guys understand the composition of the yankees farm system. there is a boatload of guys with solid regular projection and decent likelihood. you'd need to make a big trade for an elite piece to get value out of them.

    it so happens that the angels have a bunch of negative value players on their team and extremely thin system. it's a great match and worth exploring, particularly given the comfort level the FOs likely have for each other as well as trout being an area kid so he might lobby for the trade if it appears likely.
    Yankees make that trade and they turn into what LAA has been.

    Farm takes a big hit and the ML ready talent is not very good around Trout not to mention a barren rotation.

    We aren't talking about giving up one headliner in Torres and then some A and AA pieces. you're giving up your ML ready talent, your#1 prospect, probably your #1 pitching prospect and then some. We are talking about a 25 yr old Trout here...you are giving up everything to get a guy of that caliber.
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  18. #1068

    Re: 2017 Spring Training Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JOBA RULES View Post
    Gotcha bro, I appreciate that good stuff.

    Again, Yankees trade for Trout they are in a similar situation the Angels have been.

    Minimal pitching, not much help in the lineup, and the farm takes a hit too. What happens if Tanaka walks?..and we end up trading Kap and Sheff or someone?
    Well, I did make this same point, although I pointed out our future purchase power is much greater and we'd likely have some pieces left over.

    Either way, it's an interesting concept, and boils down the what the minimum really is to acquire, which awy thinks is different than others.

    If it was Torres/Sanchez/Bird+ then the math likely doesn't work. If it's not all of them, a legit case can be made.
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  19. #1069
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    Re: 2017 Spring Training Thread

    when i say guys with solid regular projection and decent likelihood, i'm not talking about your sanchez or torres. it's more the guys in the top 20 of our list, a majority of which would be the #1 prospect in the angels system.

    there is a lot of value in those guys and you only have so many roster spots and playing time.

  20. #1070
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    Re: 2017 Spring Training Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    when i say guys with solid regular projection and decent likelihood, i'm not talking about your sanchez or torres. it's more the guys in the top 20 of our list, a majority of which would be the #1 prospect in the angels system.

    there is a lot of value in those guys and you only have so many roster spots and playing time.
    If the Angels start valuing players because they'd be the #1 prospect in their system, then they will be settling for a sh*t package.

  21. #1071
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    Re: 2017 Spring Training Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    If the Angels start valuing players because they'd be the #1 prospect in their system, then they will be settling for a sh*t package.
    not asking them to overvalue those prospects, but properly value them. their proper value is significant for that roster. look at who they are playing.

    it's obviously not a sure thing and much depends on angels posture. but just in terms of the value changing hands there is a match.

  22. #1072
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    Re: 2017 Spring Training Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NerfBall55 View Post
    Well, I did make this same point, although I pointed out our future purchase power is much greater and we'd likely have some pieces left over.

    Either way, it's an interesting concept, and boils down the what the minimum really is to acquire, which awy thinks is different than others.

    If it was Torres/Sanchez/Bird+ then the math likely doesn't work. If it's not all of them, a legit case can be made.

    It would have to be that for them to even consider it.
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  23. #1073
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    Re: 2017 Spring Training Thread

    if judge is at 20 homers at the trade deadline, you'll see articles on fangraphs etc titled "the next stanton" and they would not be bull................ting either.

    it's pretty likely. that is your big headliner.

  24. #1074
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    Re: 2017 Spring Training Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    if judge is at 20 homers at the trade deadline, you'll see articles on fangraphs etc titled "the next stanton" and they would not be bull................ting either.

    it's pretty likely. that is your big headliner.
    I'm not sure if Judge is going to win the RF job....
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  25. #1075
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    Re: 2017 Spring Training Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JOBA RULES View Post
    I'm not sure if Judge is going to win the RF job....
    i'm just strictly talking in terms of assets. obviously if you give me the reins i'd play judge and play him so that he can hit a lot of homers.

    stanton's first month pretty closely mirrors judge's 90 plate appearances, it's not as unlikely as you think.

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