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  1. #8801
    time of my life ... ajra21's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    I wasn't trying to belittle teaching degrees. If you took my comment as such, rest assure, it wasn't my intent. I just think that a certain mix of teaching degrees and folks with relevant experience would be best, particularly in Middle and High School, when kids have multiple classes. K-5, where one teacher is dealing with the same set of kids and multiple subjects? Teaching degrees are likely vital there.

    My comment was based on the observation that the sub-set of those willing to take teaching on as a career was constrained by the salary. It's ALSO constrained by barriers to entry.
    i didn't take it that way.

    educations has changed. it takes a degree or an intense one-year course like the UK PGCE to get you somewhat ready.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Still a barrier to entry. Perhaps not an insurmountable barrier, but a barrier nonetheless. Using your logic, salary isn't a barrier either; you can still take a second job.

    Not the union as a Collective Bargaining Unit, but the union as a lobbyist. The first things we teach people taking a degree in education is that new and fresh ideas aren't doable, and that only people with teaching degrees can teach. So we do things the same way, with the same unsatisfactory results.

    Not a fan.
    wherever formal teacher training has been proposed, the sole reason has so they can cut costs. it was tried in the UK. what happened? schools starting letting teaching assistants teach full classes. the results were terrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Certification requirements created a definition for 'qualified.' But there are thousands of 'qualified' teachers who are terrible. Isn't that also at the expense of the kids? If qualification standards still result in bad teachers, what are we achieving?
    sure, sometimes people leave a degree without a qualification that doesn't reflect their actual ability to the a particular job. it happens in all walks of life - chef, pilot, doctor, nurse.

    however, you need that formal training to get you close to being ready. my degree was a four year degree that i completed in three years (not overly uncommon). there were too parts: the academic and the pedagogy.

    the academic was mainly focused on what we teach. it was around 30% of the course. the pedagogy was how you teach. that was around 70%.

    it takes along time to get comfortable in a classroom. you need years of standing there making mistakes as a student teacher to figure it out.

    doctors need qualifications. you're not going to a doctor who doesn't have a qualifications. they've studied, they've learnt. they've crossed the base line. does that mean they're a good doctor? maybe, maybe not.

    the teaching degree/qualifiy doesn't make you a good teacher. it makes you a teacher. but without it, TBH, the chance of you being even close to ready are pretty slim.

    i pretty much guarantee that removing that qualification would send the quality of teaching into a nose dive.
    Bring tea for the Tillerman; Steak for the son; Wine for the woman
    who made the rain come; Seagulls sing your hearts away;
    'Cause while the sinners sin, the children play ...

  2. #8802

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Of course. "Failing schools" are mostly situated in under-educated, lower income neighborhoods. Go figure. Parents who don't read to their young children, households with no books in them, disinterested parents. To blame the teachers when this is the sort of home environment the kids have is crazy.

    I've gone back and forth with this with JL for a long time now. I question the model that says if a kid is 9 years old, he belongs in 4th Grade. When we move a kid through the system, based on nothing more than his age, we're handcuffing the teacher. You can't teach 5th Grade grammar and math and such to a kid who hasn't mastered the basic concepts of 4th grade (not to mention 3rd grade). But, even the suggestion of educational standards will be met with "you can't do it that way" by anyone who's been indoctrinated through a teaching degree.

    It just seems we teach our future teachers that the only way to proceed is to continue doing things the way they've been (unsuccessfully) done for years. Worse, we force the teachers into that failed model, and give them fewer resources to use to succeed. Then, we act shocked when Standardized Test scores indicate the kids aren't learning.

    And that's why we have kids in High School who can't read. Tell me the presence of these kids (the ones who aren't ready to learn or willing to learn) isn't to the detriment of the kids who want to actually learn.
    Actually modern educators donít continue to do things the same way. Teachers today are expected to provide instruction for students at different levels in their classrooms. For more extreme cases, special supports and/or individualized instruction are provided. New teaching methods are research driven, and you need to know the research to understand whatís being done.

    You canít really stand on the outside of a school, think that it looks the same as when I went there, and then assume that things are being done the same old way.

  3. #8803
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Of course. "Failing schools" are mostly situated in under-educated, lower income neighborhoods. Go figure. Parents who don't read to their young children, households with no books in them, disinterested parents. To blame the teachers when this is the sort of home environment the kids have is crazy.

    I've gone back and forth with this with JL for a long time now. I question the model that says if a kid is 9 years old, he belongs in 4th Grade. When we move a kid through the system, based on nothing more than his age, we're handcuffing the teacher. You can't teach 5th Grade grammar and math and such to a kid who hasn't mastered the basic concepts of 4th grade (not to mention 3rd grade). But, even the suggestion of educational standards will be met with "you can't do it that way" by anyone who's been indoctrinated through a teaching degree.

    It just seems we teach our future teachers that the only way to proceed is to continue doing things the way they've been (unsuccessfully) done for years. Worse, we force the teachers into that failed model, and give them fewer resources to use to succeed. Then, we act shocked when Standardized Test scores indicate the kids aren't learning.

    And that's why we have kids in High School who can't read. Tell me the presence of these kids (the ones who aren't ready to learn or willing to learn) isn't to the detriment of the kids who want to actually learn.
    And yet, the basis of the back-and-forth we've had is that you not only want the kids to be left back, you want the teachers to do the same thing that failed before until the damn kid gets it. I want to find out why the kid failed in the first place - because there are a lot of possible reasons - and tailor the solution to the reason the kid failed.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  4. #8804
    time of my life ... ajra21's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Of course. "Failing schools" are mostly situated in under-educated, lower income neighborhoods. Go figure. Parents who don't read to their young children, households with no books in them, disinterested parents. To blame the teachers when this is the sort of home environment the kids have is crazy.

    I've gone back and forth with this with JL for a long time now. I question the model that says if a kid is 9 years old, he belongs in 4th Grade. When we move a kid through the system, based on nothing more than his age, we're handcuffing the teacher. You can't teach 5th Grade grammar and math and such to a kid who hasn't mastered the basic concepts of 4th grade (not to mention 3rd grade). But, even the suggestion of educational standards will be met with "you can't do it that way" by anyone who's been indoctrinated through a teaching degree.

    It just seems we teach our future teachers that the only way to proceed is to continue doing things the way they've been (unsuccessfully) done for years. Worse, we force the teachers into that failed model, and give them fewer resources to use to succeed. Then, we act shocked when Standardized Test scores indicate the kids aren't learning.

    And that's why we have kids in High School who can't read. Tell me the presence of these kids (the ones who aren't ready to learn or willing to learn) isn't to the detriment of the kids who want to actually learn.
    most modern nations do not hold students back. the reason it’s still an accepted concept in the US is because of the how stuff is taught.

    i have little problem saying the US needs to update their teaching methods but i’m not sure you’ll be happy with the changes if you think holding kids back is a sensible option.

    all the evidence shows that holding kids back actually makes it worse. drop out rates go up. depression rates go up. violence and criminal actions go up. drug use and alcohol use goes up.
    Bring tea for the Tillerman; Steak for the son; Wine for the woman
    who made the rain come; Seagulls sing your hearts away;
    'Cause while the sinners sin, the children play ...

  5. #8805
    time of my life ... ajra21's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    And yet, the basis of the back-and-forth we've had is that you not only want the kids to be left back, you want the teachers to do the same thing that failed before until the damn kid gets it. I want to find out why the kid failed in the first place - because there are a lot of possible reasons - and tailor the solution to the reason the kid failed.
    this is key. without it, nothing else will be achieved. in most instances, holding kids back does not address the issue.

    for example, i know a student who has a significant reading issue. he is the prime example of a child who'd have once upon a time found himself repeating grades.

    but he's a good mathematician. holding him back would, relatively quickly see his math ability suffer. with the right support, his reading skills are being improved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Actually modern educators donít continue to do things the same way. Teachers today are expected to provide instruction for students at different levels in their classrooms. For more extreme cases, special supports and/or individualized instruction are provided. New teaching methods are research driven, and you need to know the research to understand whatís being done.

    You canít really stand on the outside of a school, think that it looks the same as when I went there, and then assume that things are being done the same old way.
    your last paragraph is very true. the differences are considerable and subtle. equally, i will say, in general, the education iím seeing in US schools is similar to the kind i saw in the 80s and early 90s as a student. since then, the UK has gone through around six educational updates.

    what was taught in school in the 70s has been expanded. math concepts and ELA concepts haven't been reduced. they expanded exponentially. the time we have to teach has not gone up. not to mention that we need to teach students computer skills. yet we must also spend time on social education cos we're being told that kids don't interact enough. we must spend time on drug education, alcohol education, sex education, and a bunch of other stuff.
    Bring tea for the Tillerman; Steak for the son; Wine for the woman
    who made the rain come; Seagulls sing your hearts away;
    'Cause while the sinners sin, the children play ...

  6. #8806

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ajra21 View Post
    most modern nations do not hold students back. the reason itís still an accepted concept in the US is because of the how stuff is taught.

    i have little problem saying the US needs to update their teaching methods but iím not sure youíll be happy with the changes if you think holding kids back is a sensible option.

    all the evidence shows that holding kids back actually makes it worse. drop out rates go up. depression rates go up. violence and criminal actions go up. drug use and alcohol use goes up.
    Yeah, but everyoneís an expert - which is how such whacky ideas gain traction on the internet. So, now school reform equates to kids who are shaving sitting as students in 3rd grade classrooms and teachers packing guns so they can get into shoot outs with potential mass murderers in the name of school safety.

    As I said, everyoneís an expert. On school policy, educators are consulted last if at all. On climate policy, scientists are consulted last if at all. On national security, the intelligence community is consulted last if at all. On relations with North Korea, Korean experts are consulted last if at all. On whatís real news, the press is consulted last if at all. The. List goes on, and on, and on.

  7. #8807

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    I think Lamb might eke out a win in PA. Gonna be tight.


  8. #8808

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    The family of Democratic National Committee staffer Seth Rich, who was killed in 2016, has filed a lawsuit against Fox News, an investigative reporter and one of the network's contributors over a story about Rich and allegations that he was involved in a conspiracy, according to the lawsuit.

    In the suit, which was obtained by ABC News, Rich's parents, Joel and Mary Rich, claim that Fox News investigative reporter Malia Zimmerman and contributor Ed Butowsky reached out to the family under false pretenses to support stories that Seth Rich leaked DNC emails to WikiLeaks.

    The lawsuit claims that Fox News, Zimmerman and Butowsky are liable for the harm caused by the report because they "aided and abetted the intentional infliction of emotional distress" caused by the story about Seth Rich and alleges that Fox News provided with a national platform to develop what the lawsuit dubs a "sham story."
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/famil...ry?id=53725795

  9. #8809
    time of my life ... ajra21's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Yeah, but everyoneís an expert - which is how such whacky ideas gain traction on the internet. So, now school reform equates to kids who are shaving sitting as students in 3rd grade classrooms and teachers packing guns so they can get into shoot outs with potential mass murderers in the name of school safety.

    As I said, everyoneís an expert. On school policy, educators are consulted last if at all. On climate policy, scientists are consulted last if at all. On national security, the intelligence community is consulted last if at all. On relations with North Korea, Korean experts are consulted last if at all. On whatís real news, the press is consulted last if at all. The. List goes on, and on, and on.
    I wish everyone was an expert.
    Bring tea for the Tillerman; Steak for the son; Wine for the woman
    who made the rain come; Seagulls sing your hearts away;
    'Cause while the sinners sin, the children play ...

  10. #8810
    time of my life ... ajra21's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by philleotardo View Post
    Go get those bastards.
    Bring tea for the Tillerman; Steak for the son; Wine for the woman
    who made the rain come; Seagulls sing your hearts away;
    'Cause while the sinners sin, the children play ...

  11. #8811

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Casey At The Bat is also a school psychologist.
    Snitch.

  12. #8812
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casey at the Bat View Post
    Snitch.
    Snitches get stitches, right?

  13. #8813

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Snitches get stitches, right?
    Damnit. That made me laugh, and now I have no witty comeback. 😂😂

  14. #8814
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casey at the Bat View Post
    Damnit. That made me laugh, and now I have no witty comeback. 😂😂
    Working with city kids has its advantages. Iím a white boy from the suburbs, I never learned stuff like that growing up.

  15. #8815

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Working with city kids has its advantages. Iím a white boy from the suburbs, I never learned stuff like that growing up.
    I grew up a poor city kid, with just about all the disadvantages that come with it. You have no idea how embarrassing it is to be outwitted by the white boy from the suburbs.

  16. #8816

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Lamb up 95 votes with 99% reporting. Gonna go to absentees.


  17. #8817

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Up 847 with the heavy blue precinct absentees counted. The rest of the absentees (red precincts) counted tomorrow morning, but good news overall for Lamb.


  18. #8818

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    And it looks likely that a district that went for Trump by 20 points just flipped.

    Oh how the turntables...


  19. #8819

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    This is the response to ďmy vote doesnít countĒ.

  20. #8820

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    20 point swing for the Dems
    The presidency doesn't change who you are. It reveals who you are. First Lady Michelle Obama (2015)

  21. #8821

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jcarey View Post
    Up 847 with the heavy blue precinct absentees counted. The rest of the absentees (red precincts) counted tomorrow morning, but good news overall for Lamb.
    Lead of fewer than 600 now, according to CNN. I hope Lamb can pull it off.

  22. #8822

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    The GOP is just full of admirable characters these days.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-...nzalez-n856311

    'Skinhead lesbian': GOP candidate attacks Parkland teen Emma Gonzalez

    A Republican candidate for the Maine House of Representatives has used Twitter to attack two students who survived a mass shooting at a Florida high school, calling one of them, who is openly bisexual, a "skinhead lesbian" and the other a "bald-faced liar."

  23. #8823
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jcarey View Post
    And it looks likely that a district that went for Trump by 20 points just flipped.

    Oh how the turntables...
    Quote Originally Posted by philleotardo View Post
    This is the response to “my vote doesn’t count”.
    Quote Originally Posted by BRenninger View Post
    20 point swing for the Dems
    Heavily GOP district, razor thin margin, ballots yet to be opened. I think the football-spiking here is premature. #LBJballotBox13

  24. #8824
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNewman View Post
    Heavily GOP district, razor thin margin, ballots yet to be opened. I think the football-spiking here is premature. #LBJballotBox13
    OK, crucial district is in on absentees, Lamb's lead actually grew a bit. GOP going to need an LBJ Box #13 to win now, not enough provisionals left to tilt it

  25. #8825
    Reject Fascism
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    NBC declares Lamb the winner. This is a district that went for Trump by over 20 points.
    2018: the year the USA put children in cages

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