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  1. #7001
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fredgmuggs View Post
    I was just about to ask what has he decided to do. Thanks (assuming NBC News is correct. You know how they like post that fake news stuff)
    He is scheduled to speak in 7 minutes (evidently the 10:45 time was central)so we will know soon.
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  2. #7002
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Soriambi View Post
    Franken and Moore are worlds apart, but "not being as bad as Roy Moore" doesn't mean he didn't do wrong. I don't think anyone has accused him of being a rapist--I suppose predator or exploiter of women depend on how you're defining those things, and there are certainly degrees to those too. The fact that some ignorant people are lumping him in the same category as Roy Moore is not a defense, though. It's unfortunate that some can't see nuance, but I don't see the point. If someone commits a count of manslaughter and is being considered the same as Jeffrey Dahmer in the public eye, that's unfortunate and wrong, but it doesn't mean there shouldn't be consequences for the former.
    Very well said. No Frankenís wrong doing isnít comparable to Moore but that doesnít mean his actions doní warrant consequences. He needs to go.
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  3. #7003

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    Very well said. No Frankenís wrong doing isnít comparable to Moore but that doesnít mean his actions doní warrant consequences. He needs to go.
    I haven't read up on this in its entirety. Did Franken do this stuff while in office or before?
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  4. #7004
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    His announcement is a must listen. He said the irony is not lost on him that he is being asked to leave by members of his own party, while we have someone accused of sexual relations with a minor running for Senate and a President who admitted to sexual assault on tape not being called out by their party.
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  5. #7005
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NerfBall55 View Post
    I haven't read up on this in its entirety. Did Franken do this stuff while in office or before?
    There are 8 accusers now. Canít say for all but the ones I have heard about were before.
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  6. #7006

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    His announcement is a must listen. He said the irony is not lost on him that he is being asked to leave by members of his own party, while we have someone accused of sexual relations with a minor running for Senate and a President who admitted to sexual assault on tape not being called out by their party.
    He went on the Senate floor to make a political speech with his resignation and fell on his sword so the Democrats can after Trump and Moore with impunity while pointing their finger at the Republicans for putting politics first. No huge surprise about the content of his message. It's politics as usual on Capital Hill.
    Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. ~ Dale Carnegie

  7. #7007
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fredgmuggs View Post
    He went on the Senate floor to make a political speech with his resignation and fell on his sword so the Democrats can after Trump and Moore with impunity while pointing their finger at the Republicans for putting politics first. No huge surprise about the content of his message. It's politics as usual on Capital Hill.
    Oh definitely political. Which is what DC is. I see their platform for 2018 is and I pray that like 2016 they do not run on a one issue platform (Trump sucks).
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  8. #7008

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    Oh definitely political. Which is what DC is. I see their platform for 2018 is and I pray that like 2016 they do not run on a one issue platform (Trump sucks).
    Honestly, it felt like he was taking one for the team (did he even sound remorseful or apologetic about the harassment allegations?). It was kind of weird but expected.
    Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. ~ Dale Carnegie

  9. #7009

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fredgmuggs View Post
    Honestly, it felt like he was taking one for the team (did he even sound remorseful or apologetic about the harassment allegations?). It was kind of weird but expected.
    It felt sincere which I rarely think about a political speech. Yes, he took one for the team and Iím glad. This is bigger than any one senator and Iím pleased to see the Dems taking a stand even if it ends up hurting them in some ways. Itís the only way the culture is ever going to change.

  10. #7010

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    His announcement is a must listen. He said the irony is not lost on him that he is being asked to leave by members of his own party, while we have someone accused of sexual relations with a minor running for Senate and a President who admitted to sexual assault on tape not being called out by their party.
    His case has nothing to do with the other cases though.

    And both parties are guilty of all this crap.
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  11. #7011
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NerfBall55 View Post
    His case has nothing to do with the other cases though.

    And both parties are guilty of all this crap.
    Agreed. But what is related is each parties responses or non response. Politics is all about hypocrisy which is why I find the posts calling it out In here a waste of time. Want any more evidence just look at each parties concern about the debt. It all depends on who has control
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  12. #7012

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    Agreed. But what is related is each parties responses or non response. Politics is all about hypocrisy which is why I find the posts calling it out In here a waste of time. Want any more evidence just look at each parties concern about the debt. It all depends on who has control
    Agree 100%. Especially on the debt.
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  13. #7013

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    Agreed. But what is related is each parties responses or non response. Politics is all about hypocrisy which is why I find the posts calling it out In here a waste of time. Want any more evidence just look at each parties concern about the debt. It all depends on who has control
    Just because the politicians behave hypocritically doesn't mean we have to as well.

  14. #7014

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Soriambi View Post
    Franken and Moore are worlds apart, but "not being as bad as Roy Moore" doesn't mean he didn't do wrong. I don't think anyone has accused him of being a rapist--I suppose predator or exploiter of women depend on how you're defining those things, and there are certainly degrees to those too. The fact that some ignorant people are lumping him in the same category as Roy Moore is not a defense, though. It's unfortunate that some can't see nuance, but I don't see the point. If someone commits a count of manslaughter and is being considered the same as Jeffrey Dahmer in the public eye, that's unfortunate and wrong, but it doesn't mean there shouldn't be consequences for the former.
    The very fact that you're using manslaughter as your analogy for what he did shows how absurd this is. I get sloppy wet and unwanted kisses all the time from women for whom it's there way of expressing themselves. Sometimes it's when they've had too much to drink. I'm polite about it and extract myself from the situation. Should I be screaming "Assault!" And firing a complaint?

    I understand that these women don't mean anything hostile by what they do. In fact, they mean just. The opposite. But in their world, this behaviour is okay. I've had my butt playfully squeezed by women and my shoulders massaged unrequested. I'm polite and figure out a way to work around the situation. The world of human behaviour is not black and white. We all have to work with situations like these.

    I don't see anything that Franken did that's different than what women did to me? Every time something was called to his attention, he backed off. When he received national attention he apologized as he should have. But that wasn't enough as fellow Democrats refused to defend him. This is what their critics mean when they label them "politically correct". They ignore reality and judge behaviour by whether it adheres to a rigid set of rules without understanding, judgment, or flexibility, ignoring how real human beings function in the real world.

    In this case, the Democrats had the perfect opportunity to educate the public and refine their definition of what we're talking about. They should have said, "This is not what we're talking about. We're talking about grabbing pussy and stalking teenagers as well as rape, assault, and work place intimidation." Now Franken, a good guy and asset to the women's movement is gone from the Senate while the pussy grabber and stalker of teenagers are both still in place.

    This reminds me so much of the swift boaters attack on John Kerry in the 2004 presidential campaign. The Democrats sat on their hands instead of coming out to defend Kerry. The charges sat their for a month unchallenged. The result was that the Draft Dodger was reelected , and the true war hero went home.

    Nicely done, liberals. I his speech today, Franken was the only Democrat who showed any class, putting the interests of others above his own.

  15. #7015
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Minnesota isn't "blue Alabama" by the way -- a Republican has a fighting chance there (remember Norm Coleman?). Franken himself got in by such a narrow margin, it took months to sort out. The special elex will be in a midterm year which would tend to weigh against the GOP, but that race isn't necessarily the slam dunk for DFL that some might think it will be.

  16. #7016

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    The very fact that you're using manslaughter as your analogy for what he did shows how absurd this is. I get sloppy wet and unwanted kisses all the time from women for whom it's there way of expressing themselves. Sometimes it's when they've had too much to drink. I'm polite about it and extract myself from the situation. Should I be screaming "Assault!" And firing a complaint?

    I understand that these women don't mean anything hostile by what they do. In fact, they mean just. The opposite. But in their world, this behaviour is okay. I've had my butt playfully squeezed by women and my shoulders massaged unrequested. I'm polite and figure out a way to work around the situation. The world of human behaviour is not black and white. We all have to work with situations like these.

    I don't see anything that Franken did that's different than what women did to me? Every time something was called to his attention, he backed off. When he received national attention he apologized as he should have. But that wasn't enough as fellow Democrats refused to defend him. This is what their critics mean when they label them "politically correct". They ignore reality and judge behaviour by whether it adheres to a rigid set of rules without understanding, judgment, or flexibility, ignoring how real human beings function in the real world.

    In this case, the Democrats had the perfect opportunity to educate the public and refine their definition of what we're talking about. They should have said, "This is not what we're talking about. We're talking about grabbing pussy and stalking teenagers as well as rape, assault, and work place intimidation." Now Franken, a good guy and asset to the women's movement is gone from the Senate while the pussy grabber and stalker of teenagers are both still in place.

    This reminds me so much of the swift boaters attack on John Kerry in the 2004 presidential campaign. The Democrats sat on their hands instead of coming out to defend Kerry. The charges sat their for a month unchallenged. The result was that the Draft Dodger was reelected , and the true war hero went home.

    Nicely done, liberals. I his speech today, Franken was the only Democrat who showed any class, putting the interests of others above his own.
    I think this is a well put summary. It's why I asked earlier if Franken had done it beforehand or during his tenure in office.

    If it's all the behavior described above, and it happened beforehand, I don't know why that makes him unfit for office.

    But, the ultra-sensitive PC movement was created mostly by those on the left, so this is what happens.
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  17. #7017
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NerfBall55 View Post
    I think this is a well put summary. It's why I asked earlier if Franken had done it beforehand or during his tenure in office.

    If it's all the behavior described above, and it happened beforehand, I don't know why that makes him unfit for office.

    But, the ultra-sensitive PC movement was created mostly by those on the left, so this is what happens.
    And this is how we end up in a world where Al Franken is out and Roy Moore will most likely be in.

  18. #7018

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan View Post
    And this is how we end up in a world where Al Franken is out and Roy Moore will most likely be in.
    Yes.

    Having photo evidence really hurt Franken though, IMO.

    The Democrats are a mess. They're going to screw it up again.
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  19. #7019

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Oh, by the way, school shooting. New Mexico.

  20. #7020

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    The very fact that you're using manslaughter as your analogy for what he did shows how absurd this is. I get sloppy wet and unwanted kisses all the time from women for whom it's there way of expressing themselves. Sometimes it's when they've had too much to drink. I'm polite about it and extract myself from the situation. Should I be screaming "Assault!" And firing a complaint?

    I understand that these women don't mean anything hostile by what they do. In fact, they mean just. The opposite. But in their world, this behaviour is okay. I've had my butt playfully squeezed by women and my shoulders massaged unrequested. I'm polite and figure out a way to work around the situation. The world of human behaviour is not black and white. We all have to work with situations like these.

    I don't see anything that Franken did that's different than what women did to me? Every time something was called to his attention, he backed off. When he received national attention he apologized as he should have. But that wasn't enough as fellow Democrats refused to defend him. This is what their critics mean when they label them "politically correct". They ignore reality and judge behaviour by whether it adheres to a rigid set of rules without understanding, judgment, or flexibility, ignoring how real human beings function in the real world.

    In this case, the Democrats had the perfect opportunity to educate the public and refine their definition of what we're talking about. They should have said, "This is not what we're talking about. We're talking about grabbing pussy and stalking teenagers as well as rape, assault, and work place intimidation." Now Franken, a good guy and asset to the women's movement is gone from the Senate while the pussy grabber and stalker of teenagers are both still in place.

    This reminds me so much of the swift boaters attack on John Kerry in the 2004 presidential campaign. The Democrats sat on their hands instead of coming out to defend Kerry. The charges sat their for a month unchallenged. The result was that the Draft Dodger was reelected , and the true war hero went home.

    Nicely done, liberals. I his speech today, Franken was the only Democrat who showed any class, putting the interests of others above his own.
    You're not a woman. You can't compare your experiences. It doesn't translate.

    @Nerfball I don't think it's pc sensitivity that's causing people to re-evaluate how women are treated. It's social change in the same way gay people are allowed to be married. This is a positive for us as a country despite how painful it appears on the outside.

  21. #7021
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    He is scheduled to speak in 7 minutes (evidently the 10:45 time was central)so we will know soon.
    I agree that he needs to go, and made the right choice. But he's being held to a higher standard and can only imagine the (((reasons))) for that.

  22. #7022
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Bernard View Post
    You're not a woman. You can't compare your experiences. It doesn't translate.
    I think it translates word-for-word. If an unwanted kiss or shoulder-rub is sexual harassment, then it's beyond the line of acceptable behavior. Full stop.


    How is it reasonable to vilify a man for this behavior, but then find the same behavior acceptable if it's from a woman directed toward a man? "You can't compare them. It doesn't translate." Male/female....doesn't matter. The behavior is either acceptable, or it's not. No 'translation' required.

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  23. #7023

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Bernard View Post

    @Nerfball I don't think it's pc sensitivity that's causing people to re-evaluate how women are treated. It's social change in the same way gay people are allowed to be married. This is a positive for us as a country despite how painful it appears on the outside.
    My comment wasn't in the context of how women are treated, but by how everyone is. Bill Marsh's examples as well.

    But the point was, while it's good that this is getting out in the open, there will be cases where people will get the same punishment when the crimes don't match.
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  24. #7024
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NerfBall55 View Post
    My comment wasn't in the context of how women are treated, but by how everyone is. Bill Marsh's examples as well.

    But the point was, while it's good that this is getting out in the open, there will be cases where people will get the same punishment when the crimes don't match.
    I think the question is at what level of wrongness do you have to meet to warrant being asked to resign. While I donít see what Franken to be clos to what Moore did, I still feel 8 accusers (with complaints of him trying to force kisses) is serious enough for him to resign or failing that be expelled. Now I am not sure how to make Mooreís punishment in proportion to Frsnkenís more severe, you canít doubly resign. And I also donít think if Moore gets voted in that has any affect on Franken. If we start saying if oneís offense, while still wrong, canít be punished because someone else did something worse well not sure who will be held accountable as to me praying on minors is about as despicable as you can get.
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  25. #7025
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    .... I still feel 8 accusers (with complaints of him trying to force kisses) is serious enough for him to resign or failing that be expelled.
    What if it was four accusers? How about two? How about just one? What's the threshold for "serious enough?"

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