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  1. #5351

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan View Post
    Krugman goes through in fine detail the outlines of the Trump tax plan and systematically shows how full of lies and misinformation it is. Well worth the read.

    https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ies-lies/?_r=0
    Trump vs Krugman? That isn't even fair.

  2. #5352

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    It's only a mere 20 billion. No big deal........

    The Air Force Just Bought 100 Stealth Fighters That Cant Fight

    Source: Daily Beast

    The U.S. military has signaled that it might cancel essential upgrades for more than 100 early-model F-35 stealth fighters flown by the Air Force, rendering the radar-evading jets incompatible with many of the latest weapons.

    In that case, some six percent of the flying branch's planned 1,700-strong F-35 fleet would be unfit for combat, sticking U.S. taxpayers with a $20 billion tab for fighters... that can't fight.

    Experts say the military never should have bought the planes the first place, as they rolled out of Lockheed Martin's Fort Worth factory before the F-35's design was complete and thoroughly tested—a deliberate strategy called "concurrency" that the military hoped would speed up the program's progress.

    "The risk that the services would be stuck with less-than-capable aircraft is one that the Pentagon knowingly took when leaders decided to overlap the development and testing of the program with the production," wrote Dan Grazier, an analyst with the Project on Government Oversight in Washington, D.C.



    https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-ai...st+Articles%29
    The presidency doesn't change who you are. It reveals who you are. First Lady Michelle Obama (2015)

  3. #5353
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BRenninger View Post
    In that case, some six percent of the flying branch's planned 1,700-strong F-35 fleet would be unfit for combat, sticking U.S. taxpayers with a $20 billion tab for fighters... that can't fight.
    What's your point? From the article you quoted, they actually are combat capable, but far less effectively than the newer revision. And also from the article, they could easily be relegated to a training function, meaning the taxpayers aren't "stuck" for anything. It's not as if the USAF is procuring aircraft and immediately mothballing them.


    I'm not a fan of concurrent production, which is what led to the software non-compatibility. But if you develop the tooling to build prototypes, then suspend production while you conduct weapons system testing, and then re-establish the production line later, the unit cost rises drastically.


    Who are you saying is at fault here? The USAF? The Obama Administration? Bob Gates? Lockheed?


    Are you still using the first cell phone you bought? Or did you switch to newer models as technology advanced? Are you driving the same car as you were in April 2010?

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
    - President Barack Obama

  4. #5354

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Best explanation I've found.


    The F-35 was billed as a fighter jet that could do almost everything the U.S. military desired, serving the Air Force, Marine Corps and Navy – and even Britain’s Royal Air Force and Royal Navy – all in one aircraft design. It’s supposed to replace and improve upon several current – and aging – aircraft types with widely different missions. It’s marketed as a cost-effective, powerful multi-role fighter airplane significantly better than anything potential adversaries could build in the next two decades. But it’s turned out to be none of those things.


    Officially begun in 2001, with roots extending back to the late 1980s, the F-35 program is nearly a decade behind schedule, and has failed to meet many of its original design requirements. It’s also become the most expensive defense program in world history, at around US$1.5 trillion before the fighter is phased out in 2070.
    The unit cost per airplane, above $100 million, is roughly twice what was promised early on. Even after President Trump lambasted the cost of the program in February, the price per plane dropped just $7 million – less than 7 percent.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...trike-fighter/

    The primary problem seems to be approving mass production before the design is finalized.
    The presidency doesn't change who you are. It reveals who you are. First Lady Michelle Obama (2015)

  5. #5355
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BRenninger View Post
    The primary problem seems to be approving mass production before the design is finalized.
    I agree. As I said above, I'm not a fan of concurrent production. Keep in mind, though, that prototype development, construction, and flight testing is very expensive, and will add to the unit cost of the entire production run of what is already a frighteningly expensive aircraft.


    Of course, the value of the acquisition can't be determined until we see what the life span of the product is (much like you can't assess a baseball trade the day after the trade is finalized). The F-4 first flew in 1958, entered the combat inventory in 1960, and wasn't retired (in the US) until 36 years later (and is still in use internationally). The F-15 was first flown in 1972, entered the inventory in 1976, and is not only still in use, it's still in production, 41 years later. The F-16 was first flown in 1974, entered the inventory in 1978, and is still in service (and production) 39 years later. If the F-35 ultimately serves as our tactical mainstay for three or four decades, it's going to be worth its price tag.

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
    - President Barack Obama

  6. #5356

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Are you driving the same car as you were in April 2010?
    I am. . . The same 2 cars.

  7. #5357
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    I won't comment on any one particular weapon system but to me it seems the Defense Department budget has been bloated and out of whack for decades. This isn't a knock on Trump in specific but rather an indictment of our whole political system covering the House and Senate as well as the Executive branch including the President(s) and their various department heads.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  8. #5358

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    I won't comment on any one particular weapon system but to me it seems the Defense Department budget has been bloated and out of whack for decades. This isn't a knock on Trump in specific but rather an indictment of our whole political system covering the House and Senate as well as the Executive branch including the President(s) and their various department heads.
    We need a lot of wars to justify all that spending.

  9. #5359

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan View Post
    Krugman goes through in fine detail the outlines of the Trump tax plan and systematically shows how full of lies and misinformation it is. Well worth the read.

    https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ies-lies/?_r=0
    Thanks, that was excellent.
    Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. ~ Dale Carnegie

  10. #5360
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    What's your point? From the article you quoted, they actually are combat capable, but far less effectively than the newer revision. And also from the article, they could easily be relegated to a training function, meaning the taxpayers aren't "stuck" for anything. It's not as if the USAF is procuring aircraft and immediately mothballing them.


    I'm not a fan of concurrent production, which is what led to the software non-compatibility. But if you develop the tooling to build prototypes, then suspend production while you conduct weapons system testing, and then re-establish the production line later, the unit cost rises drastically.


    Who are you saying is at fault here? The USAF? The Obama Administration? Bob Gates? Lockheed?


    Are you still using the first cell phone you bought? Or did you switch to newer models as technology advanced? Are you driving the same car as you were in April 2010?
    Same car since October of 2007. Been driving for 32 years and a a total of 6 cars.
    SJW - bad attempt at insulting people that care about other's rights and not just their own.

  11. #5361
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Who are you saying is at fault here? The USAF? The Obama Administration? Bob Gates? Lockheed?
    I'm sure there is plenty of blame to share.
    Are you still using the first cell phone you bought? Or did you switch to newer models as technology advanced?
    I'm on my 2nd cell phone. Probably going to my 3rd this month or next as my operating system is no longer being updated.

    Are you driving the same car as you were in April 2010?
    Actually I've been driving the same car since July of 2003. But starting to think this one might need to be replaced soon.

    My wife has been driving the same car since October 2008.

    The car we just gave to our son is a hand me down from my mother in law from 2006.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  12. #5362
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Same car since May of 1999. It's a Toyota 4Runner and it has a lot of life left yet. Barely 200k. But it's more like a C-130 than a F-35.
    "Deep to left! Yastrzemski will not get it! It's a home run! A three-run homer by Bucky Dent! And the Yankees now lead by a score of 3-2!" - New York Yankees announcer Bill White (October 2, 1978)

  13. #5363
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    I won't comment on any one particular weapon system but to me it seems the Defense Department budget has been bloated and out of whack for decades.
    Believe it or not, I agree. I believe the biggest factor, however, to be our overseas presence. The purpose of the DoD is to defend the United States, to fight its enemies, to be the final instrument of national power when all others have failed. We have entirely too many troops in Europe and in Asia. That overseas presence costs a lot of money.


    I'll generally defend weapon system acquisition when we have thousands of our troops strapping on hardware that was developed and built in the early 1960s. The B-52 was extremely old when I first flew it in 1980. I completed a 20+year career, and have been retired for close to 18 years, and those same B-52s are still flying, and there's no plan to retire them for another few decades. Developing and purchasing new systems is complex and expensive, but the practice of deploying combat troops into harm's way with 60 or 70 year old technology MUST end.


    Those acquisitions could be on a smaller scope if we were defending the United States, rather than the US, all of Europe, Japan, Korea, and the entirety of Southwest Asia.

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
    - President Barack Obama

  14. #5364
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Believe it or not, I agree.
    I'm not surprised. You've made similar comments before.

    And yes it is expensive to be the world's police force.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  15. #5365
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Anyone hear McCain’s comments last night receiving the Liberty Award? “Half baled nationalism” lol I love it!


    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/mccai...d=social_fb_tw
    SJW - bad attempt at insulting people that care about other's rights and not just their own.

  16. #5366

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Believe it or not, I agree. I believe the biggest factor, however, to be our overseas presence. The purpose of the DoD is to defend the United States, to fight its enemies, to be the final instrument of national power when all others have failed. We have entirely too many troops in Europe and in Asia. That overseas presence costs a lot of money.


    I'll generally defend weapon system acquisition when we have thousands of our troops strapping on hardware that was developed and built in the early 1960s. The B-52 was extremely old when I first flew it in 1980. I completed a 20+year career, and have been retired for close to 18 years, and those same B-52s are still flying, and there's no plan to retire them for another few decades. Developing and purchasing new systems is complex and expensive, but the practice of deploying combat troops into harm's way with 60 or 70 year old technology MUST end.


    Those acquisitions could be on a smaller scope if we were defending the United States, rather than the US, all of Europe, Japan, Korea, and the entirety of Southwest Asia.
    Completely agree. I don't think the founding fathers had 750 overseas military bases in mind when they talked about the common defense.

    I also think that our adventurism overseas has typically done more harm than good for our national interests. We have overthrown foreign governments, invaded countries without cause, and have inflicted devastation on any number of populations around the world with great loss of life to our own people and at great cost. There is always blow back from this kind of stuff. At some point, the rest of the world is going to stop tolerating it.

  17. #5367

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread


  18. #5368
    Let's go Rangers! RhodyYanksFan's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Texsahara View Post
    This sums up the problem.
    This allergy to statistics and quantitative social science — or at least to their legal application — seems to present a perverse incentive to would-be gerrymanderers: The more complicated your process is, and therefore the more complicated the math would need to be to identify the process as unconstitutional, the less likely the court will be to find it unconstitutional.

  19. #5369
    Not fooling anyone. Soriambi's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Texsahara View Post
    To some degree I sympathize with the "allergic to math" group, which I think is an unfair characterization. Having read the oral argument, I think the main concerns are not necessarily understanding the math, but :

    1. Whether there's a feasible way to decide which measure or measures are the right ones to use and how to do that. (For instance, why the efficiency gap rather than another measure, and why set the limit at 7 rather than 6, etc.)

    2. Whether 1. is something the Court can do without being totally arbitrary about it, and whether that's the job the courts are equipped and meant to do.

    3. John Roberts specifically seems concerned about how people will view it and that it will make the courts look overly partisan as they decide whether each state or district is gerrymandered acceptably.

    4. Roberts also expressed concern because the Court has original jurisdiction on a lot of these cases (meaning they have no choice about whether to grant cert or not), so he's worried about a ton of cases coming in.

    I think 3 and 4 are arguments that can be dismissed, as they're certainly not reasons to decide a case like this one way or the other, even if they may be concerns. I think arguments 1 and 2 make more sense. I hope they find a way to strike down partisan gerrymandering, because I think it's a plague, but I think it's tough to pin down exactly what that looks like and how to achieve it.
    -Kevin

    "My point is you can't compare things with statistics." Joe Morgan


    "I'd have won that trial. I've often said that." Stephen A. Smith on the OJ Simpson trial

    RIP, Pete.

  20. #5370
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soriambi View Post
    To some degree I sympathize with the "allergic to math" group, which I think is an unfair characterization. Having read the oral argument, I think the main concerns are not necessarily understanding the math, but :

    1. Whether there's a feasible way to decide which measure or measures are the right ones to use and how to do that. (For instance, why the efficiency gap rather than another measure, and why set the limit at 7 rather than 6, etc.)

    2. Whether 1. is something the Court can do without being totally arbitrary about it, and whether that's the job the courts are equipped and meant to do.

    3. John Roberts specifically seems concerned about how people will view it and that it will make the courts look overly partisan as they decide whether each state or district is gerrymandered acceptably.

    4. Roberts also expressed concern because the Court has original jurisdiction on a lot of these cases (meaning they have no choice about whether to grant cert or not), so he's worried about a ton of cases coming in.

    I think 3 and 4 are arguments that can be dismissed, as they're certainly not reasons to decide a case like this one way or the other, even if they may be concerns. I think arguments 1 and 2 make more sense. I hope they find a way to strike down partisan gerrymandering, because I think it's a plague, but I think it's tough to pin down exactly what that looks like and how to achieve it.
    Roberts isn’t worried that it might make them look too partisan. He’s worried it might make them look too partisan the wrong way.

    I do think the problem of setting a reasonable standard and test is a real one.

  21. #5371
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Texsahara View Post
    They're a bunch of liberal Arts majors for went into law because Math is hard. What do you expect?
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

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