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  1. #3676

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Texsahara View Post
    wowsers

  2. #3677
    time of my life ... ajra21's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Why limit non-profitability to health? How about extending the concept to all basic human needs? Housing? Sorry home-builders, all you can charge is your direct labor and materials. Home owners? Want to move? Sorry, but don't ask for or accept more than you paid for your house. Farmers? Better keep receipts for seed or livestock. Grocers? No profit for you.


    The problem with health care isn't that profits can be earned; it's that charges are based on what insurance will pay. Go to your doctor or local hospital, and ask to see the price list for certain procedures. No one knows. Because, the charge will vary from patient to patient, based on what their insurance policy will bear. "Oh, you have XYZ Insurance? They'll allow $450 for that procedure, so that's what we charge. Your neighbor has ABC Insurance. They allow $600 for it, so that's what we charged him."


    Much of what's wrong with American health care is the charging/billing process created by the insurance companies. And, our solution to this problem was to expand the coverage pool for those insurance companies. It's insanity.
    there are a bunch of things that should not be about profit.

    building the majority of houses wouldn't be one of those.
    Bring tea for the Tillerman; Steak for the son; Wine for the woman
    who made the rain come; Seagulls sing your hearts away;
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  3. #3678
    Not fooling anyone. Soriambi's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees View Post
    Single payer healthcare paid for by the government, or at least a public option.

    I understand why the individual mandate is necessary for the ACA to work, and I don't want the ACA to go away as the GOP would like to do right now. But I'm not a huge fan of requiring people to pay money to a corporate, for-profit entity just because they exist.
    Oh, sure, obviously, but assuming that's a non-starter, how do you handle it in a private system without that?
    -Kevin

    "My point is you can't compare things with statistics." Joe Morgan


    "I'd have won that trial. I've often said that." Stephen A. Smith on the OJ Simpson trial

    RIP, Pete.

  4. #3679
    time of my life ... ajra21's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Texsahara View Post
    breaking news: politician overheard saying something that many others have been saying for a year. experts believe others will think and say this same thing again in the coming days because it's true.
    Bring tea for the Tillerman; Steak for the son; Wine for the woman
    who made the rain come; Seagulls sing your hearts away;
    'Cause while the sinners sin, the children play ...

  5. #3680
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Why limit non-profitability to health? How about extending the concept to all basic human needs? Housing? Sorry home-builders, all you can charge is your direct labor and materials. Home owners? Want to move? Sorry, but don't ask for or accept more than you paid for your house. Farmers? Better keep receipts for seed or livestock. Grocers? No profit for you.


    The problem with health care isn't that profits can be earned; it's that charges are based on what insurance will pay. Go to your doctor or local hospital, and ask to see the price list for certain procedures. No one knows. Because, the charge will vary from patient to patient, based on what their insurance policy will bear. "Oh, you have XYZ Insurance? They'll allow $450 for that procedure, so that's what we charge. Your neighbor has ABC Insurance. They allow $600 for it, so that's what we charged him."


    Much of what's wrong with American health care is the charging/billing process created by the insurance companies. And, our solution to this problem was to expand the coverage pool for those insurance companies. It's insanity.
    The problem isn't that there's profit to be made in healthcare. It's that, for the insurance companies that control healthcare for most of us, profitability lies in denying coverage.

  6. #3681
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Soriambi View Post
    Oh, sure, obviously, but assuming that's a non-starter, how do you handle it in a private system without that?
    You don't, which is kind of where I end up twisting myself into a pretzel. I support keeping the ACA, which necessitates the mandate, but I'm never going to be one to defend the idea of an individual mandate to buy a private product.

  7. #3682
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees View Post
    You don't, which is kind of where I end up twisting myself into a pretzel. I support keeping the ACA, which necessitates the mandate, but I'm never going to be one to defend the idea of an individual mandate to buy a private product.
    Think of it as a collective mandate. Unless everyone buys in, the system doesn't work for the people who need it. It's a responsibility.

  8. #3683
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Think of it as a collective mandate. Unless everyone buys in, the system doesn't work for the people who need it. It's a responsibility.
    I just wish it was done through taxation paid to the government rather than personal income paid to Aetna.

  9. #3684
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    The problem isn't that there's profit to be made in healthcare. It's that, for the insurance companies that control healthcare for most of us, profitability lies in denying coverage.
    And this is the crux of why I don't like the ACA. Never before has our government told its citizens that they MUST purchase a commercial product.


    Under a government-controlled healthcare system, wouldn't the government have the same motivation to deny coverage? Perhaps it would be framed in cost-cutting, rather than profitability, but the motivation to deny coverage would be he same, no?

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
    - President Barack Obama

  10. #3685
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    And this is the crux of why I don't like the ACA. Never before has our government told its citizens that they MUST purchase a commercial product.


    Under a government-controlled healthcare system, wouldn't the government have the same motivation to deny coverage? Perhaps it would be framed in cost-cutting, rather than profitability, but the motivation to deny coverage would be he same, no?
    Not a fan either but the answer is not a worse system.
    What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

  11. #3686
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    And this is the crux of why I don't like the ACA. Never before has our government told its citizens that they MUST purchase a commercial product.


    Under a government-controlled healthcare system, wouldn't the government have the same motivation to deny coverage? Perhaps it would be framed in cost-cutting, rather than profitability, but the motivation to deny coverage would be he same, no?
    No, it wouldn't. There would be the motivation to negotiate lower payments, perhaps, but not the same motivation to deny coverage. That's because the responsibility of the government would be to deliver healthcare, not to make a profit.

  12. #3687
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    And this is the crux of why I don't like the ACA. Never before has our government told its citizens that they MUST purchase a commercial product.


    Under a government-controlled healthcare system, wouldn't the government have the same motivation to deny coverage? Perhaps it would be framed in cost-cutting, rather than profitability, but the motivation to deny coverage would be he same, no?
    Only if you assume the government is trying to turn a profit on healthcare which isn't a valid assumption in my opinion.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  13. #3688
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Only if you assume the government is trying to turn a profit on healthcare which isn't a valid assumption in my opinion.
    The government won't try to turn a profit (they're not very good at that), but they WILL have a constant incentive to reduce cost. Budgets get cut.


    A budget-sensitive government entity will be just as likely to deny/restrict coverage as a profit-motivated corporate entity. No?

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
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  14. #3689
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    The government won't try to turn a profit (they're not very good at that), but they WILL have a constant incentive to reduce cost. Budgets get cut.


    A budget-sensitive government entity will be just as likely to deny/restrict coverage as a profit-motivated corporate entity. No?
    That hasn't been my experience for anyone I know who has been on Medicare.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  15. #3690
    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    That hasn't been my experience for anyone I know who has been on Medicare.
    A healthy population is a productive population.

  16. #3691

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    The government won't try to turn a profit (they're not very good at that), but they WILL have a constant incentive to reduce cost. Budgets get cut.


    A budget-sensitive government entity will be just as likely to deny/restrict coverage as a profit-motivated corporate entity. No?
    You do realize other countries do this successfully, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    That hasn't been my experience for anyone I know who has been on Medicare.
    Mine, either.

  17. #3692
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    The government won't try to turn a profit (they're not very good at that), but they WILL have a constant incentive to reduce cost. Budgets get cut.


    A budget-sensitive government entity will be just as likely to deny/restrict coverage as a profit-motivated corporate entity. No?
    There's no evidence to think that would be so.

  18. #3693
    Chapeců, que tristeza theDurk's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    The government won't try to turn a profit (they're not very good at that), but they WILL have a constant incentive to reduce cost. Budgets get cut.


    A budget-sensitive government entity will be just as likely to deny/restrict coverage as a profit-motivated corporate entity. No?
    What really fries me about the current, private insurance based healthcare model is the multi-layered pricing/availability structure. You have reflexive negotiations where providers give sweetheart pricing to some insurers to cover the fixed costs and price abuse the remainder of their users. Meanwhile, insurers have their sweetheart deals to cover the bulk of what they provide, while they gleefully exclude anyone who slips outside their network. I got royally screwed when it turned out the anesthesiologists in my in-network hospital were out-of-network and NO ONE informed me. I never met the guy until 30 seconds before I went under.

    In a single-payer system, all these ridiculous non-value related distortions get eliminated. It's time, the private sector has eliminated market efficiency on their own and can't use that as a justification for keeping out government.

    You can't have market efficiency in a system where nobody knows what anything will cost.
    "Deep to left! Yastrzemski will not get it! It's a home run! A three-run homer by Bucky Dent! And the Yankees now lead by a score of 3-2!" - New York Yankees announcer Bill White (October 2, 1978)

  19. #3694
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by theDurk View Post
    What really fries me about the current, private insurance based healthcare model is the multi-layered pricing/availability structure. You have reflexive negotiations where providers give sweetheart pricing to some insurers to cover the fixed costs and price abuse the remainder of their users. Meanwhile, insurers have their sweetheart deals to cover the bulk of what they provide, while they gleefully exclude anyone who slips outside their network. I got royally screwed when it turned out the anesthesiologists in my in-network hospital were out-of-network and NO ONE informed me. I never met the guy until 30 seconds before I went under.

    In a single-payer system, all these ridiculous non-value related distortions get eliminated. It's time, the private sector has eliminated market efficiency on their own and can't use that as a justification for keeping out government.

    You can't have market efficiency in a system where nobody knows what anything will cost.
    You mean when you're going in for emergency heart bypass surgery you can't ask them to compare rates of local hospitals and take you to the cheapest one?
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  20. #3695

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Long read for anyone that likes long reads. It's good. Thoughtful. Bonus if you like Michael Lewis's writing style.

    http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/...-michael-lewis

    Donald Trumpís secretary of energy, Rick Perry, once campaigned to abolish the $30 billion agency that he now runs, which oversees everything from our nuclear arsenal to the electrical grid. The departmentís budget is now on the chopping block. But does anyone in the White House really understand what the Department of Energy actually does? And what a horrible risk it would be to ignore its extraordinary, life-or-death responsibilities?

  21. #3696
    time of my life ... ajra21's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jlw1980 View Post
    You do realize other countries do this successfully, right?
    but remember, american is the greatest o doing anything someone else does would make it worse.
    Bring tea for the Tillerman; Steak for the son; Wine for the woman
    who made the rain come; Seagulls sing your hearts away;
    'Cause while the sinners sin, the children play ...

  22. #3697

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    why did bernie vote against the magnitsky act? kek

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