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  1. #8301
    Good to the last drop CoyoteYankee's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jcarey View Post
    I can get behind a variant of that food program. I think the dems should look into it and see if there might be some common ground.

    From what I read (I thought), there would be a stipend on top of the delivery that would be for discretionary spending, so it wouldn't eliminate choice entirely. I also thought I saw that some of the foodstuffs included things like beans, peanut butter, oatmeal, etc. Good bang for your buck in terms of calories while still being healthy.

    I think a program like this IF done right, could solve a few problems.

    First, we could get food directly to households. That helps those that live in food deserts and single parents that don't have the time (or transportation) to get to a grocery store as often as necessary.

    Second, assuming the food is brought in from local(ish) farms, we support those small businesses and I think that would also reduce the overall impact to the environment.

    Third, using the Blue Apron or whatever model, we can educate recipients and give them recipes to make quick and nutritious meals using the provided food. The health benefits would be substantial, assuming that we're giving healthy food (not corn syrupy bull................ the ag lobby wants included) and recipients are interested in a healthy diet.

    It may not be feasible, but I'd prefer to see liberals try to mold this into a favorable deal that both sides could be happy with. Rs get peace of mind with regard to abuse (overblown as it may be), support for local businesses, maybe some job creation, and hopefully more efficient use of taxpayer money while dems have an opportunity to address some deficiencies in the current program.
    I respectfully disagree. Some counterpoints:

    Getting food directly to household are great but the food they are talking about putting in these boxes is generally not the food that people living in food deserts are struggling to get. Food deserts are bereft of fresh fruit, vegetables, and meat. Canned and jarred food are generally available pretty close by.

    Iím not sure what farms you are referring to but from what I can gather, the food is going to be cheap, mass produced stuff. If Iím wrong, then I retract this.

    Iíd love to see the healthy recipes that chefs can come up with using beans and peanut butter!

    I kid with that last one but Iíd honestly rather they take the money they would spend on this and use it to invest in education programs on eating healthy inexpensively. I do like your idea of sending recipients some easy recipes and educational materials in eating right. Iíd get behind that.

    Iím willing to hear more about the program before I dismiss it out of hand but from the little Iíve heard so far, their boxes will not include fresh fruit and veggies but canned and jarred food, most of which they can buy at the corner bodega. It just seems like they are taking choice away.
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  2. #8302
    time of my life ... ajra21's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post
    There is no valid argument I can think of justifying spending any money on administrative/delivery services that would otherwise go directly toward purchasing food (lobster or not).

    And I never understood why anybody even cares if somebody buys lobster with SNAP. It's not like that person's monthly SNAP allotment increases because of it.

    Are people not allowed to cook a nice meal occasionally and forget that they're struggling for like 20 minutes of their life?
    because they're imbeciles?
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  3. #8303

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CoyoteYankee View Post
    I respectfully disagree. Some counterpoints:

    Getting food directly to household are great but the food they are talking about putting in these boxes is generally not the food that people living in food deserts are struggling to get. Food deserts are bereft of fresh fruit, vegetables, and meat. Canned and jarred food are generally available pretty close by.

    Iím not sure what farms you are referring to but from what I can gather, the food is going to be cheap, mass produced stuff. If Iím wrong, then I retract this.

    Iíd love to see the healthy recipes that chefs can come up with using beans and peanut butter!

    I kid with that last one but Iíd honestly rather they take the money they would spend on this and use it to invest in education programs on eating healthy inexpensively. I do like your idea of sending recipients some easy recipes and educational materials in eating right. Iíd get behind that.

    Iím willing to hear more about the program before I dismiss it out of hand but from the little Iíve heard so far, their boxes will not include fresh fruit and veggies but canned and jarred food, most of which they can buy at the corner bodega. It just seems like they are taking choice away.
    I think those are examples of NOT doing it right. I would want dried beans, rice, potatoes, pb, oatmeal, whole wheat bread (basic staples) delivered. Food deserts don't even have that stuff. And when they do, it's at a gas station and overpriced. Some canned food is fine, but that's not what I'm personally imagining.

    I'm talking about taking the concept and tweaking it to make it work for recipients. In present form, I agree it doesn't do that. And maybe it's unworkable, but I'm not convinced it isn't...yet.


  4. #8304

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ajra21 View Post
    because they're imbeciles?
    No, they're selfish and they hate poor people, which is worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by jcarey View Post
    I think those are examples of NOT doing it right. I would want dried beans, rice, potatoes, pb, oatmeal, whole wheat bread (basic staples) delivered. Food deserts don't even have that stuff. And when they do, it's at a gas station and overpriced. Some canned food is fine, but that's not what I'm personally imagining.

    I'm talking about taking the concept and tweaking it to make it work for recipients. In present form, I agree it doesn't do that. And maybe it's unworkable, but I'm not convinced it isn't...yet.
    I have a better idea. Trust people to know which foods they need.

  5. #8305
    Good to the last drop CoyoteYankee's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jcarey View Post
    I think those are examples of NOT doing it right. I would want dried beans, rice, potatoes, pb, oatmeal, whole wheat bread (basic staples) delivered. Food deserts don't even have that stuff. And when they do, it's at a gas station and overpriced. Some canned food is fine, but that's not what I'm personally imagining.

    I'm talking about taking the concept and tweaking it to make it work for recipients. In present form, I agree it doesn't do that. And maybe it's unworkable, but I'm not convinced it isn't...yet.
    With the exception of maybe potatoes and whole wheat bread all of those things you listed are typically readily available at local markets in food deserts. Rice and beans are the basis of those markets. Starches and carbs are often readily available there. Itís the fresh fruits, veggies, and meats that are lacking. Iím sure the government could get those staple items more cheaply than local market prices but then Iíd think the cost for individual packaging and shipping would offset that. So in my mind, you are limiting choices for families while providing a few healthier options (i.e. whole wheat vs white bread). There are some benefits but I guess I donít think itís worth it.
    2017 - Better than expected!

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  6. #8306

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ajra21 View Post
    because they're imbeciles?

    I'm guessing is the fear that you could resell those expensive luxury food goods and utilize the gains for more nefarious purposes.

    I mean, stealing and reselling meat has become a massive problem.

  7. #8307
    Do not vex me mortal Hitman23's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post
    There is no valid argument I can think of justifying spending any money on administrative/delivery services that would otherwise go directly toward purchasing food (lobster or not).

    And I never understood why anybody even cares if somebody buys lobster with SNAP. It's not like that person's monthly SNAP allotment increases because of it.

    Are people not allowed to cook a nice meal occasionally and forget that they're struggling for like 20 minutes of their life?
    not that I personally care, but I believe the idea is that if you’re being helped, you don’t want to get so comfortable with that help that there is no incentive to better yourself and eventually do for yourself. Benefits like that should be given to help you get by in times of need until you can get back on your feet. If you’re getting help and buying items that are more luxurious than essential, aside from your pride, if you have any, what motivates you to better your situation? Why change if you’re getting what you want now? Your brain gets wired to accept your dependence.

    Again, I don’t have any strong feelings one way or another but that’s how I understand it.
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  8. #8308

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jlw1980 View Post
    I have a better idea. Trust people to know which foods they need.
    I understand the sentiment, but overall, I'd say they don't, regardless of income level.

    Obesity levels in this country are what's driving my thinking.
    Hideki Matsui is capable of anything

  9. #8309

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jcarey View Post
    I can get behind a variant of that food program. I think the dems should look into it and see if there might be some common ground.

    From what I read (I thought), there would be a stipend on top of the delivery that would be for discretionary spending, so it wouldn't eliminate choice entirely. I also thought I saw that some of the foodstuffs included things like beans, peanut butter, oatmeal, etc. Good bang for your buck in terms of calories while still being healthy.

    I think a program like this IF done right, could solve a few problems.

    First, we could get food directly to households. That helps those that live in food deserts and single parents that don't have the time (or transportation) to get to a grocery store as often as necessary.

    Second, assuming the food is brought in from local(ish) farms, we support those small businesses and I think that would also reduce the overall impact to the environment.

    Third, using the Blue Apron or whatever model, we can educate recipients and give them recipes to make quick and nutritious meals using the provided food. The health benefits would be substantial, assuming that we're giving healthy food (not corn syrupy bull................ the ag lobby wants included) and recipients are interested in a healthy diet.

    It may not be feasible, but I'd prefer to see liberals try to mold this into a favorable deal that both sides could be happy with. Rs get peace of mind with regard to abuse (overblown as it may be), support for local businesses, maybe some job creation, and hopefully more efficient use of taxpayer money while dems have an opportunity to address some deficiencies in the current program.
    I don't agree with most of this but setting it aside, it is demeaning, dehumanizing and cruel and that's not how we should treat our disadvantaged citizens.

  10. #8310

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NerfBall55 View Post
    I understand the sentiment, but overall, I'd say they don't, regardless of income level.

    Obesity levels in this country are what's driving my thinking.
    There is a lot of debate over whether or not accessibility to better food choices improves health in impoverished areas. Studies contradict each other so while I agree that making healthy food more accessible is important, it's the poverty itself and the allostatic load that comes with it that is the cause of much of the illness.

  11. #8311
    Let's go Rangers! RhodyYanksFan's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NerfBall55 View Post
    I understand the sentiment, but overall, I'd say they don't, regardless of income level.

    Obesity levels in this country are what's driving my thinking.
    Yeah, it's a problem in this country when you can get a cheeseburger for less money than a salad.

  12. #8312

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan View Post
    Yeah, it's a problem in this country when you can get a cheeseburger for less money than a salad.
    It's a bigger problem that salads are not as delicious as cheeseburgers.

  13. #8313
    Not fooling anyone. Soriambi's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Texsahara View Post
    It's a bigger problem that salads are not as delicious as cheeseburgers.
    Yes. And that cheeseburgers are worse for you. Those are the issues that need to be addressed. Get on it, science.
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  14. #8314
    Let's go Rangers! RhodyYanksFan's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jlw1980 View Post
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...5e5_story.html

    Israeli police recommend indictment of Netanyahu on corruption charges



    Wow.
    This is a huge deal.

    https://www.vox.com/world/2018/2/13/...rruption-trump

    I always felt Netanyahu was a war monger, dangerous right wing nut. It's strange to see a Jew as being far-right, but he clearly is. I hope he gets his comeuppance.

    The first case, known as Case 1,000, revolves around tens of thousands of dollarsí worth of jewelry, cigars, and other gifts that Netanyahu and his wife, Sara, allegedly received from wealthy businessmen ó including an Australian, James Packer, who was once married to Mariah Carey ó in exchange for political favors. (Israeli police are also reportedly close to recommending criminal charges against Sara Netanyahu.)

    The second, known as Case 2,000, alleges that Netanyahu told Arnon Mozes, the publisher of Israelís largest newspaper, that heíd support legislation designed to hurt Mozesís main competitor in exchange for positive press coverage. According to transcripts obtained by Israelís Channel 2, the two went so as far as to discuss potential pro-Netanyahu columnists that Mozes would hire.

  15. #8315

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/02/13/m...ahu/index.html
    CNN) Israeli police said Tuesday there is "sufficient evidence" to indict Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on criminal charges in two corruption cases.

    According to a police statement published late Tuesday, authorities found evidence of "accepting bribes, fraud, and breach of trust."
    Al Capone being locked up for tax evasion times infinity.

    -edit- whoops already posted! But oh well, it’s just so good...

  16. #8316
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman23 View Post
    not that I personally care, but I believe the idea is that if youíre being helped, you donít want to get so comfortable with that help that there is no incentive to better yourself and eventually do for yourself. Benefits like that should be given to help you get by in times of need until you can get back on your feet. If youíre getting help and buying items that are more luxurious than essential, aside from your pride, if you have any, what motivates you to better your situation? Why change if youíre getting what you want now? Your brain gets wired to accept your dependence.

    Again, I donít have any strong feelings one way or another but thatís how I understand it.
    In other words, if people need food, we can help them get it. But while the food should provide adequate nutrition, it should not provide any pleasure, or even satisfaction. Ideally, it should be disgusting, or else people will just get complacent. Relief from hunger is OK, but relief from misery is morally corrupting.

  17. #8317
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan View Post
    It's strange to see a Jew as being far-right, but he clearly is.
    Sheldon Adelson says hi, as do the theocrats who wield disproportionate power in Israel.

  18. #8318
    Let's go Rangers! RhodyYanksFan's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Sheldon Adelson says hi, as do the theocrats who wield disproportionate power in Israel.
    Funny thing about Sheldon....
    In their conversations, which took place before the 2015 Israeli elections, Mozes reportedly offered to do ďeverything in his powerĒ to help Netanyahu stay in power ďfor as long as you want.Ē In exchange, Mozes requested legislation that would limit the ability of his main competitor, the pro-Netanyahu Israel HaYom newspaper, to distribute free papers.

    Israel HaYom is owned by Sheldon Adelson, a billionaire GOP donor who contributed huge amounts of money to Trumpís successful presidential campaign and is widely thought to have close ties to Netanyahu. The Israeli leader, in other words, was apparently willing to literally sell out a political ally to ensure that he got friendlier coverage in the Israeli press.

  19. #8319

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan View Post
    This is a huge deal.

    https://www.vox.com/world/2018/2/13/...rruption-trump

    I always felt Netanyahu was a war monger, dangerous right wing nut. It's strange to see a Jew as being far-right, but he clearly is. I hope he gets his comeuppance.
    Whatís so strange about it? He keeps winning because he is popular in Israel.

  20. #8320
    Do not vex me mortal Hitman23's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    In other words, if people need food, we can help them get it. But while the food should provide adequate nutrition, it should not provide any pleasure, or even satisfaction. Ideally, it should be disgusting, or else people will just get complacent. Relief from hunger is OK, but relief from misery is morally corrupting.
    Wow that is a lot of hyperbole there. I didn't say any of those things. I do not expect this sort of response from you.
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  21. #8321
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman23 View Post
    Wow that is a lot of hyperbole there. I didn't say any of those things. I do not expect this sort of response from you.
    You said that they shouldnít be allowed to get anything more luxurious than necessary, and they shouldnít become comfortable. You let them get something delicious, and where's their incentive?

  22. #8322
    Do not vex me mortal Hitman23's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    No I absolutely did not. Twice I said I donít have strong feelings either way. I reiterated what I understand to be the idea behind getting assistance. To help you get back on your feet.

    Are you moody today or something? Youíre twisting everything I say in both threads.
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  23. #8323
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman23 View Post
    No I absolutely did not. Twice I said I donít have strong feelings either way. I reiterated what I understand to be the idea behind getting assistance. To help you get back on your feet.

    Are you moody today or something? Youíre twisting everything I say in both threads.
    OK, then Iím not addressing your ideas, but your understanding of what the idea behind the program is. Then everything I said still holds.

    And Iím not moody. This is what I think. My disgust is coming out today. I like you, Steve, but I donít always like your ideas, and Iím saying so.

  24. #8324
    Do not vex me mortal Hitman23's Avatar
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    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    OK, then Iím not addressing your ideas, but your understanding of what the idea behind the program is. Then everything I said still holds.

    And Iím not moody. This is what I think. My disgust is coming out today. I like you, Steve, but I donít always like your ideas, and Iím saying so.
    That's fine, but the hyperbole isn't fair. Your point was not fair because it's not what I said.
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  25. #8325
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman23 View Post
    That's fine, but the hyperbole isn't fair. Your point was not fair because it's not what I said.
    I think itís the idea behind your stated idea, which you did say was not necessarily your preference.

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