+ Reply to Thread
Page 468 of 522 FirstFirst ... 368 418 458 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 478 518 ... LastLast
Results 11,676 to 11,700 of 13039
  1. #11676
    Let's go Rangers! RhodyYanksFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    lil'rhody

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Each California voter is providing input for which way a block of 55 EC votes is going. Each Wyoming voter is providing input for which way THREE EC votes are going.

    No way the Wyoming voter has more clout than the California voter. California has the power to tip an election. Wyoming does not, and never will.
    It might not be a big difference in POTUS elections, but it does make a difference in the Senate. By 2020 (I think) 70 Senators will represent only 30% of the population.

  2. #11677
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Colorado Springs

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    I honestly don't know if a recount would have been for Bush or Gore but we will never know for sure because of a 5-4 SCOUTS ruling. There is no fiction in that.
    Are you equally concerned about the irregularities in Palm Beach Canvassing Board vs Katherine Harris? Had the Florida Supreme Court not arbitrarily rewritten Florida election law, the SCOTUS wouldn't have needed to weigh in.

    The process went forward as scheduled, and the results were certified, as required by law, by the Florida Attorney General. The Florida Supreme Court said "wait a minute," and stayed the Attorney General's certification. They then mandated a recount in four counties that were heavily Democratic. When Bush contested doing a recount in just those four counties, the Florida Supreme Court said "wait a minute" and expanded the recount to everywhere. In Bush vs. Gore, the SCOTUS didn't "award" the election to Bush. It terminated the Florida Supreme Court's unconstitutional rewriting of Florida election law.

    If you have issues with SCOTUS regarding the 2000 election, are you giving a pass to the Florida Supreme Court, because their decision might have changed the outcome? At least SCOTUS didn't change the outcome.....all it did was say "enough is enough -- end it."

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
    - President Barack Obama

  3. #11678
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Colorado Springs

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan View Post
    It might not be a big difference in POTUS elections, but it does make a difference in the Senate. By 2020 (I think) 70 Senators will represent only 30% of the population.
    Good luck with organizing that Constitutional Convention. Have you given any thought to what the name of the nation ought to be? Because, with no Electoral College and no US Senate, United STATES of America would no longer be a valid description.

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
    - President Barack Obama

  4. #11679
    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Good luck with organizing that Constitutional Convention. Have you given any thought to what the name of the nation ought to be? Because, with no Electoral College and no US Senate, United STATES of America would no longer be a valid description.
    I donít see a problem.

  5. #11680
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by philleotardo View Post
    I donít see a problem.
    I agree. Maynerd, you have been a huge influence in helping me realize that the whole "state" thing is not a terrible idea, but trashing it entirely would be an improvement in many ways.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  6. #11681

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Good luck with organizing that Constitutional Convention. Have you given any thought to what the name of the nation ought to be? Because, with no Electoral College and no US Senate, United STATES of America would no longer be a valid description.
    Perhaps the emphasis should be on UNITED States of America?

    Maynerd, I can't believe you'd find it acceptable for 70% of the Senate to represent only 30% of the people, especially considering things such as confirmations and treaties. It's so obviously wrong that i find it indefensible. As it is, an archaic system rooted in upholding slavery elected Trump. Indefensible.
    "A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people."
    -- Declaration of Independence

  7. #11682

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by philleotardo View Post
    I donít see a problem.
    Neither do I.
    "A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people."
    -- Declaration of Independence

  8. #11683
    NYYF Legend

    Yankee Tripper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Left coast

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jlw1980 View Post
    Perhaps the emphasis should be on UNITED States of America?

    Maynerd, I can't believe you'd find it acceptable for 70% of the Senate to represent only 30% of the people, especially considering things such as confirmations and treaties. It's so obviously wrong that i find it indefensible. As it is, an archaic system rooted in upholding slavery elected Trump. Indefensible.
    I can. He might find a problem though if it was the other way around wrt to the inequality. I really don't know.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  9. #11684
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Colorado Springs

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by philleotardo View Post
    I donít see a problem.
    I don't see a problem, either. I'm only pointing out that this is exactly what it will take. Anything short of tearing up the Constitution and starting over is a non-player.

    But Article V requires the legislatures of two thirds of the several states to convene a Constitutional Convention. So, you're going to have to convince a significant portion of Wyoming and the Dakotas and Idaho and such to concede their power to New York and California. That's why I wished Rhody luck. You're all going to need it.

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
    - President Barack Obama

  10. #11685
    NYYF Legend

    Yankee Tripper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Left coast

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    I don't see a problem, either. I'm only pointing out that this is exactly what it will take. Anything short of tearing up the Constitution and starting over is a non-player.

    But Article V requires the legislatures of two thirds of the several states to convene a Constitutional Convention. So, you're going to have to convince a significant portion of Wyoming and the Dakotas and Idaho and such to concede their power to New York and California. That's why I wished Rhody luck. You're all going to need it.
    Wait a few posts ago you said they were unimportant, now they have power they won't cede? Which is it?
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  11. #11686
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Colorado Springs

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jlw1980 View Post
    Maynerd, I can't believe you'd find it acceptable for 70% of the Senate to represent only 30% of the people
    Isn't that why we have a bicameral legislature? One chamber to be proportionate to the size of the population, and the other to represent the interests of the individual states? Wasn't that all done so that the more populated states don't bully the smaller states?

    Eight states represent 50% of the population: California, Texas, New York, Florida, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Georgia. Why don't we just let those states tell the remaining 42 how we'll do business. Jeesh, the Dakotas combined have just a million and a half people. Why do we even let them vote?

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
    - President Barack Obama

  12. #11687
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Isn't that why we have a bicameral legislature? One chamber to be proportionate to the size of the population, and the other to represent the interests of the individual states? Wasn't that all done so that the more populated states don't bully the smaller states?

    Eight states represent 50% of the population: California, Texas, New York, Florida, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Georgia. Why don't we just let those states tell the remaining 42 how we'll do business. Jeesh, the Dakotas combined have just a million and a half people. Why do we even let them vote?
    No, Jenn's right, it was done mostly to increase the relative power of the slave states.

  13. #11688
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Isn't that why we have a bicameral legislature? One chamber to be proportionate to the size of the population, and the other to represent the interests of the individual states? Wasn't that all done so that the more populated states don't bully the smaller states?

    Eight states represent 50% of the population: California, Texas, New York, Florida, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Georgia. Why don't we just let those states tell the remaining 42 how we'll do business. Jeesh, the Dakotas combined have just a million and a half people. Why do we even let them vote?
    Thatís true if you look at the Dakotas as units that should have some parity with NY and CA. But why?

  14. #11689
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Colorado Springs

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Wait a few posts ago you said they were unimportant, now they have power they won't cede? Which is it?
    I never said they were unimportant. I may have said their overall Electoral impact is insignificant when compared with the larger states.

    We are not a democracy. Thank goodness. We are a Constitutional Republic, and the very fiber of that Republic is that we're a collection of individual states. The Senate exists to prevent the concentrated centers of population from gaining too much power.

    Believe it or not, there are a lot of Americans who don't want California, Texas, New York and Florida to make all the decisions.

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
    - President Barack Obama

  15. #11690

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Every idea of proportion and every rule of fair representation conspire to condemn a principle, which gives to Rhode Island an equal weight in the scale of power with Massachusetts, or Connecticut, or New York; and to Delaware an equal voice in the national deliberations with Pennsylvania, or Virginia, or North Carolina. Its operation contradicts the fundamental maxim of republican government, which requires that the sense of the majority should prevail. Sophistry may reply, that sovereigns are equal, and that a majority of the votes of the States will be a majority of confederated America. But this kind of logical legerdemain will never counteract the plain suggestions of justice and common-sense. It may happen that this majority of States is a small minority of the people of America; and two thirds of the people of America could not long be persuaded, upon the credit of artificial distinctions and syllogistic subtleties, to submit their interests to the management and disposal of one third.
    Alexander Hamilton gets it.
    The feminist agenda ... encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians. ~Pat Robertson 1992

  16. #11691
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    I never said they were unimportant. I may have said their overall Electoral impact is insignificant when compared with the larger states.

    We are not a democracy. Thank goodness. We are a Constitutional Republic, and the very fiber of that Republic is that we're a collection of individual states. The Senate exists to prevent the concentrated centers of population from gaining too much power.

    Believe it or not, there are a lot of Americans who don't want California, Texas, New York and Florida to make all the decisions.
    We would still be a republic rather than a democracy if the states were much weaker and the federal government stronger. It's the representative form of gpvernment that makes us a republic, not the states.

  17. #11692
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Believe it or not, there are a lot of Americans who don't want California, Texas, New York and Florida to make all the decisions.
    Eliminate states* and that problem is solved.

    *Or weaken them, or make the idea of them unimportant, like counties.

  18. #11693
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Colorado Springs

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Thatís true if you look at the Dakotas as units that should have some parity with NY and CA. But why?
    I wouldn't argue against a Constitutional Convention designed to realign state boundaries in a manner that provides some population parity. Split California into five pieces, and combine the Dakotas, Montana, Idaho and Wyoming into a single piece. The fact that we created two separate Dakotas in 1889, and made them both states, doesn't mean those lines can never be redrawn.

    What I would staunchly protest against is the elimination of regional power as defined by the Senate. Without state autonomy, we become hostage to the centers of population.

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
    - President Barack Obama

  19. #11694
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    I wouldn't argue against a Constitutional Convention designed to realign state boundaries in a manner that provides some population parity. Split California into five pieces, and combine the Dakotas, Montana, Idaho and Wyoming into a single piece. The fact that we created two separate Dakotas in 1889, and made them both states, doesn't mean those lines can never be redrawn.

    What I would staunchly protest against is the elimination of regional power as defined by the Senate. Without state autonomy, we become hostage to the centers of population.
    The most important thing, to me, is for the federal government to be the undisputed seat of power. You donít have to eliminate the Tenth Amendment, but you can expand Interstate Commerce, Necessary and Proper, and other ambiguities to defang the Tenth entirely.

  20. #11695
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Colorado Springs

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Eliminate states* and that problem is solved.

    *Or weaken them, or make the idea of them unimportant, like counties.
    Eliminate states, and that problem is exacerbated.

    With no states, no Electoral College and no Senate, do you think a presidential candidate would set foot in what we now call Iowa or Arkansas? That'd be a waste of money. The campaigns would be conducted, in their entirety, in NY, LA, Chicago, Houston and Dallas. Much more bang for the buck.

    With no states, we could get rid of the Department of Commerce, because there would be no more interstate commerce to regulate. We could get rid of the Department of Agriculture, because the majority of voters aren't farmers.

    We've already weakened the several States. We routinely ignore the Tenth Amendment, and allow power to concentrate in Washington. Were the states more powerful (relative to the Federal Government) in the late 18th Century than they are today? Absolutely. And you want to centralize that power even more? You have that much faith in the people inside the Beltway? I don't. Where do we draw the line?

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3
    It's the representative form of gpvernment that makes us a republic, not the states.
    But it's the states that make us the United States of America, not the Republic-ness.

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
    - President Barack Obama

  21. #11696
    Reject Fascism
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    CT

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Get rid Of states and one person really does equal one vote. Your vote doesnít mean more because you live in Wyoming than it does in California.
    2018: the year the USA put children in cages

  22. #11697
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Colorado Springs

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    Get rid Of states and one person really does equal one vote. Your vote doesn’t mean more because you live in Wyoming than it does in California.
    Get rid of states and no one will care about the one votes in smaller states, because you can reach many more of them (and buy more influence) by concentrating on the population centers. At that point, the vote will mean more in California than it does in Wyoming.

    I can get millions of votes by voting for a freeway expansion in LA, but I'll only get a couple dozen by voting for 800 miles of Interstate Highway in Wyoming. They have horses there anyway. What do they need highways for?

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
    - President Barack Obama

  23. #11698
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Eliminate states, and that problem is exacerbated.

    With no states, no Electoral College and no Senate, do you think a presidential candidate would set foot in what we now call Iowa or Arkansas? That'd be a waste of money. The campaigns would be conducted, in their entirety, in NY, LA, Chicago, Houston and Dallas. Much more bang for the buck.

    With no states, we could get rid of the Department of Commerce, because there would be no more interstate commerce to regulate. We could get rid of the Department of Agriculture, because the majority of voters aren't farmers.

    We've already weakened the several States. We routinely ignore the Tenth Amendment, and allow power to concentrate in Washington. Were the states more powerful (relative to the Federal Government) in the late 18th Century than they are today? Absolutely. And you want to centralize that power even more? You have that much faith in the people inside the Beltway? I don't. Where do we draw the line?

    But it's the states that make us the United States of America, not the Republic-ness.
    We donít ignore the Tenth Amendment nearly enough. And come on, the late 18th century is not a good comparison point. Of course they were more powerful then. Hence, Civil War.

    Heck yes, I want to centralize that power more. You may hate the federal government, but state governments are much worse.

  24. #11699
    Not fooling anyone. Soriambi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    New Jersey

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post

    But it's the states that make us the United States of America, not the Republic-ness.
    Just like it's the democracy that makes it the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

    I think the idea of eliminating states is such an overwhelming non-starter that it's hardly worth discussing, though. I think it would do more good than harm, but it's an especially academic discussion.
    -Kevin

    "My point is you can't compare things with statistics." Joe Morgan


    "I'd have won that trial. I've often said that." Stephen A. Smith on the OJ Simpson trial

    RIP, Pete.

  25. #11700
    Reject Fascism
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    CT

    Re: Non-Presidential News Stories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Soriambi View Post
    Just like it's the democracy that makes it the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

    I think the idea of eliminating states is such an overwhelming non-starter that it's hardly worth discussing, though. I think it would do more good than harm, but it's an especially academic discussion.
    I agree, will never happen but it is one reason why it is so hard to get anything done in the country
    2018: the year the USA put children in cages

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 5 users browsing this thread. (1 members and 4 guests)

  1. theDurk

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts