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  1. #35051

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Honestly, it's rather difficult to understand what it is you're saying:





    So you don't 'necessarily disagree' here? OK....



    Here you are saying 'it's a positive only when it happens without additional concessions.' So again, it sounds to me you saying an agreement can only be positive after the outcome has been determined?
    Now you're just yanking my chain.
    Forget the myths the media's created about the White House. The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

  2. #35052
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    1) Solid dodge.
    2) Misrepresentation of something said jokingly.

    2 for 2.
    Not a dodge at all. I answered you plainly and directly. Now I’ll pose the same question, since your initial assessment wasn’t serious: what did you expect, and what do you think you got?

  3. #35053

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I agree that of course tariffs aren't an inherently bad thing, depending on the tariff. These tariffs are pretty stupid and (surprise!) poorly thought through, but as economic warfare goes, they'll probably hurt us economically more than most of the other countries involved.

    When it comes to extreme economic sanctions and embargos, I think "economic genocide" is hyperbolic but not entirely wrong. They're often imposed with the knowledge that the suffering will fall primarily on the people of the country, not the government, with the hope that their suffering will cause them to reject their leadership. Even more than our North Korea policy, I think the Israeli blockade of Gaza and our complicity in it is a particularly stark example.
    I agree. It's also silly to make a fuss over Canadian dairy as that's an example of a country properly protecting its industry.

  4. #35054
    NYYF Legend

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    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Not a dodge at all. I answered you plainly and directly. Now I’ll pose the same question, since your initial assessment wasn’t serious: what did you expect, and what do you think you got?
    Well...you said you didn't expect anything and got nothing.

    I like you, didn't expect anything, however I don't consider the agreement to return Korean War remains as 'nothing.'
    Calmer than you are

    7/30/2017: The day the Minnesota Twins bought a prospect from the New York Yankees.

  5. #35055

    Re: President Donald Trump

    The only standard by which the North Korean meeting and agreement should be judged is the one that Trump himself has set. What would he have said about this if Obama had done exactly the same thing?

  6. #35056
    Let's go Rangers! RhodyYanksFan's Avatar
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    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    The only standard by which the North Korean meeting and agreement should be judged is the one that Trump himself has set. What would he have said about this if Obama had done exactly the same thing?
    He'd say pretty much the exact same thing Sean Hannity did back then.

    https://www.mediaite.com/tv/daily-sh...bashing-obama/

    Hannity was deeply critical of Barack Obama when the former president met with Cuban leader Raúl Castro. Back in 2013, Hannity complained about Obama “catering to the world’s dictators,” said he was “showing a lot of weakness,” and was acting like “the Neville Chamberlain of our time.”

    Fast forward to 2018, where Trump recently picked fights with America’s G7 allies, granted an audience to Kim Jong Un, and suggested that America would withdraw troops from South Korea, even though POTUS didn’t establish a detailed plan with North Korea for their eventual denuclearization.

    What does Hannity have to say about that? Well…let’s just say, it’s interesting how much of a turnaround there’s been now that Obama is gone and Trump is in.

  7. #35057
    Forget the myths the media's created about the White House. The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

  8. #35058
    Reject Fascism
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    Re: President Donald Trump

    Trying to find out how we should look at this as anything more than a slightly positive thing. There is no agreement. An agreement includes specifics, what is to be done, when it will be done by, how it will be verified. Right now we are at the same stage we were on multiple occasions when NK backed out or violated the terms. Get to the point of a signed deal (and a good deal, no unilateral concessions like Trump did with the joint military exercises) and that will be good news.

  9. #35059
    Not fooling anyone. Soriambi's Avatar
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    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    Trying to find out how we should look at this as anything more than a slightly positive thing. There is no agreement. An agreement includes specifics, what is to be done, when it will be done by, how it will be verified. Right now we are at the same stage we were on multiple occasions when NK backed out or violated the terms. Get to the point of a signed deal (and a good deal, no unilateral concessions like Trump did with the joint military exercises) and that will be good news.
    I don't think anyone here has gone further than calling it slightly positive, which is how I'd classify it as of now.
    -Kevin

    "My point is you can't compare things with statistics." Joe Morgan


    "I'd have won that trial. I've often said that." Stephen A. Smith on the OJ Simpson trial

    RIP, Pete.

  10. #35060

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Soriambi View Post
    I don't think anyone here has gone further than calling it slightly positive, which is how I'd classify it as of now.
    I would call it neutral as of now with the potential to become positive. :fingerscrossed:
    When both parties have such a long history of dishonesty, believing that either is going to live up to their end of the deal takes a leap of faith I'm not prepared to make.
    Forget the myths the media's created about the White House. The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

  11. #35061
    Reject Fascism
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    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Texsahara View Post
    I would call it neutral as of now with the potential to become positive. :fingerscrossed:
    When both parties have such a long history of dishonesty, believing that either is going to live up to their end of the deal takes a leap of faith I'm not prepared to make.
    This is where I am at.

  12. #35062

    Re: President Donald Trump

    I think the summit was fantastic for KJU. He got a US president to grovel and adopt his talking points. China and Russia may loosen their sanction regimes. NK state media is hawking Trump’s concessions while downplaying denuclearization.

  13. #35063
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
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    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan View Post
    He'd say pretty much the exact same thing Sean Hannity did back then.
    Of course. Hannity is an entertainer, and not a journalist. He's got to play to his audience's expectations.

    The comparison between Obama/Castro and Trump/Kim is reasonable. Not identical, but a reasonable comp. One's attitude ought to be pretty similar when comparing the two events.

    If, like Hannity, you hated the first meeting because...Obama, and are thrilled with the most recent because...Trump, well, you're a partisan hack, and you need to learn to look at the situation on its merits, not based on who was driving the bus.

    Of course, if you loved the first meeting because...Obama, and are kvetching about this one because...Trump, you're just as bad.

    Did this most recent meeting accomplish anything concrete? Of course not. Did we give anything away? Not really. People are railing about changes to joint US-South Korea exercises without an absolute guarantee NK will comply with their agreements. Guess what? NK doesn't have an absolute guarantee that we'll comply, either. That's a draw.

    The POTUS can't unilaterally create a treaty. That's why Trump could undo the Iranian Nuclear Deal, because Obama executed it as an executive agreement, and not a treaty. Ratifying a treaty is hard. You need the Senate to weigh in. That wasn't an expectation in Singapore.

    Does this meeting take us closer to, or further away from a treaty with North Korea? I have to believe it takes us closer, although only marginally so. Regardless, for a one-day sit-down, that's a success. Does this meeting take us closer to, or further away from a war with North Korea? I have to believe it takes us further away from open warfare. That is a very big success.

    Like a baseball trade, it's really impossible to assess who came out ahead. It'll take a few years before we can know for sure. But, a dialog between the respective leaders can't be a bad thing, can it?

    But we all need to assess our immediate reaction based on the nature of the relationship between the two countries, and not who is sitting behind the leader's desk. No, Trump didn't "legitimize" KJU. You legitimize a leader when there's some question who's actually in charge. Was there any doubt Kim was in charge? Do we avoid talking to him because of human rights issues in NK? No. Refusing to even talk isn't going to drive any improvements.

    What are your criteria (not you, Rhody, I mean in general) for a successful meeting?
    - A treaty of some sort? Unreasonable expectation.
    - Verifiable denuclearization? Unreasonable expectation.
    - Elimination of human rights violations in North Korea? Unreasonable expectation.
    - Framework for future work? I think so. Probably.
    - Lowering the likelihood of hostilities? I think so.

    I'm not a Trump apologist. I'm not a Trump fan. I don't like the man, and didn't vote for him. However, I can't automatically default to something is bad just because Trump touched it. In this specific case, I think he did something good. Not Nobel Prize good, because the end result is very much incomplete. But it was a step in the right direction with a rogue nation that has a burgeoning nuclear capability. And even one step in the right direction, under those conditions, is something to be desired.

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
    - President Barack Obama

  14. #35064

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Too many people are trying to play down the idea that Trump legitimized KJU. The potus stood before the world and said Kim was a talented guy who simply inherited a rough situation. That’s not diplomacy. There’s a wide gap between being civil and Trump’s words.

  15. #35065

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Bernard View Post
    Too many people are trying to play down the idea that Trump legitimized KJU. The potus stood before the world and said Kim was a talented guy who simply inherited a rough situation. That’s not diplomacy. There’s a wide gap between being civil and Trump’s words.
    If that was Obama doing the same thing as Trump with KJU, the Republicans would be calling for his impeachment.

  16. #35066

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Bernard View Post
    Too many people are trying to play down the idea that Trump legitimized KJU. The potus stood before the world and said Kim was a talented guy who simply inherited a rough situation. That’s not diplomacy. There’s a wide gap between being civil and Trump’s words.
    Kyle Griffin Verified account @kylegriffin1

    BAIER: Kim Jong Un is "clearly executing people."

    TRUMP: "He's a tough guy. Hey, when you take over a country, tough country, tough people, and you take it over from your father ... if you could do that at 27-years old, I mean, that's 1 in 10,000 that could do that." (via FOX)
    His obvious admiration of a murderous dictator should be shocking but it's pretty much exactly what I would expect.
    Forget the myths the media's created about the White House. The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

  17. #35067
    NYYF Legend

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    Re: President Donald Trump

    "Deep to left! Yastrzemski will not get it! It's a home run! A three-run homer by Bucky Dent! And the Yankees now lead by a score of 3-2!" - New York Yankees announcer Bill White (October 2, 1978)

  18. #35068
    Reject Fascism
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    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Bernard View Post
    Too many people are trying to play down the idea that Trump legitimized KJU. The potus stood before the world and said Kim was a talented guy who simply inherited a rough situation. That’s not diplomacy. There’s a wide gap between being civil and Trump’s words.
    This

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    If that was Obama doing the same thing as Trump with KJU, the Republicans would be calling for his impeachment.
    And this.

  19. #35069

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Josh Marshall Verified account @joshtpm

    Trump tells Fox that parents of soldiers killed in the Korean War asked him on the campaign trail to bring their sons home. (Absolute minimum age of such a parents is 101 years old. Probable age 110 to 120.)
    smdh.
    Forget the myths the media's created about the White House. The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

  20. #35070
    Word of the Year is Complicit ojo's Avatar
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    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Texsahara View Post
    smdh.
    You think the Trumpets care about this? They're laughing. Hell, there are people on this site that laugh about it. THIS stuff.

    But don't worry, we'll get our justified rage out when Samantha Bee riffs on this tonight or tomorrow. It's all entertainment. Period.
    This is not America...No! https://youtu.be/neLXqbR_r0E

  21. #35071

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    You think the Trumpets care about this? They're laughing. Hell, there are people on this site that laugh about it. THIS stuff.

    But don't worry, we'll get our justified rage out when Samantha Bee riffs on this tonight or tomorrow. It's all entertainment. Period.
    What?
    Forget the myths the media's created about the White House. The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

  22. #35072
    NYYF Legend

    ClownPickle's Avatar
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    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Of course. Hannity is an entertainer, and not a journalist. He's got to play to his audience's expectations.

    The comparison between Obama/Castro and Trump/Kim is reasonable. Not identical, but a reasonable comp. One's attitude ought to be pretty similar when comparing the two events.

    If, like Hannity, you hated the first meeting because...Obama, and are thrilled with the most recent because...Trump, well, you're a partisan hack, and you need to learn to look at the situation on its merits, not based on who was driving the bus.

    Of course, if you loved the first meeting because...Obama, and are kvetching about this one because...Trump, you're just as bad.

    Did this most recent meeting accomplish anything concrete? Of course not. Did we give anything away? Not really. People are railing about changes to joint US-South Korea exercises without an absolute guarantee NK will comply with their agreements. Guess what? NK doesn't have an absolute guarantee that we'll comply, either. That's a draw.

    The POTUS can't unilaterally create a treaty. That's why Trump could undo the Iranian Nuclear Deal, because Obama executed it as an executive agreement, and not a treaty. Ratifying a treaty is hard. You need the Senate to weigh in. That wasn't an expectation in Singapore.

    Does this meeting take us closer to, or further away from a treaty with North Korea? I have to believe it takes us closer, although only marginally so. Regardless, for a one-day sit-down, that's a success. Does this meeting take us closer to, or further away from a war with North Korea? I have to believe it takes us further away from open warfare. That is a very big success.

    Like a baseball trade, it's really impossible to assess who came out ahead. It'll take a few years before we can know for sure. But, a dialog between the respective leaders can't be a bad thing, can it?

    But we all need to assess our immediate reaction based on the nature of the relationship between the two countries, and not who is sitting behind the leader's desk. No, Trump didn't "legitimize" KJU. You legitimize a leader when there's some question who's actually in charge. Was there any doubt Kim was in charge? Do we avoid talking to him because of human rights issues in NK? No. Refusing to even talk isn't going to drive any improvements.

    What are your criteria (not you, Rhody, I mean in general) for a successful meeting?
    - A treaty of some sort? Unreasonable expectation.
    - Verifiable denuclearization? Unreasonable expectation.
    - Elimination of human rights violations in North Korea? Unreasonable expectation.
    - Framework for future work? I think so. Probably.
    - Lowering the likelihood of hostilities? I think so.

    I'm not a Trump apologist. I'm not a Trump fan. I don't like the man, and didn't vote for him. However, I can't automatically default to something is bad just because Trump touched it. In this specific case, I think he did something good. Not Nobel Prize good, because the end result is very much incomplete. But it was a step in the right direction with a rogue nation that has a burgeoning nuclear capability. And even one step in the right direction, under those conditions, is something to be desired.
    Calmer than you are

    7/30/2017: The day the Minnesota Twins bought a prospect from the New York Yankees.

  23. #35073
    Word of the Year is Complicit ojo's Avatar
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    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Texsahara View Post
    What?
    I'm saying it doesn't matter. Trump wouldn't lose a single voter over it. But it's OK, because we have our Samantha Bees and Stephen Colberts to express our frustration glands.

    It is what it is.
    This is not America...No! https://youtu.be/neLXqbR_r0E

  24. #35074

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    I'm saying it doesn't matter. Trump wouldn't lose a single voter over it. But it's OK, because we have our Samantha Bees and Stephen Colberts to express our frustration glands.

    It is what it is.
    Okay?
    Forget the myths the media's created about the White House. The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

  25. #35075
    Word of the Year is Complicit ojo's Avatar
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    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Texsahara View Post
    Okay?
    You're the one who apparently is still surprised by this. Catch up.
    This is not America...No! https://youtu.be/neLXqbR_r0E

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