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  1. #35326
    NYYF Legend

    Yankee Tripper's Avatar
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    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    The Space Force already exists. For the most part, it's Air Force Space Command, a component of the US Air Force. There are also space components within the Army and Navy, and there's a Unified US Space Command.

    The question is whether to take those existing resources, and create a whole new branch of the military.

    No invasion of Mars. But, military operations in space are a very real thing, but in support of the warfighter, rather than offensive military operations.
    I get that the "Space Force" is currently a part of the Air Force and control of space largely for satellite communication but other things is a very necessary component of modern military warfare.


    That said, I believe a full separate Armed Forces division is a terribly unnecessary wasteful administrative expense that is not at all needed.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  2. #35327

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    Do we get phasers or light sabers?
    May the Schwartz be with you!
    Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. ~ Dale Carnegie

  3. #35328
    Word of the Year is Complicit ojo's Avatar
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    Re: President Donald Trump

    It breaks my heart.
    This is not America...No! https://youtu.be/neLXqbR_r0E

  4. #35329
    Word of the Year is Complicit ojo's Avatar
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    Re: President Donald Trump

    Trump is playing us. This is a deflection from the horror going on at the border.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...arm/710909002/

    The President today directed the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs to develop a Space Force as a sixth branch of the American Military. He has suggested this before, but this time he gave pretty specific marching orders to the CJCS.

    Air Force Space Command currently has several distinct missions:
    - Space launch (various military satellites) from either Kennedy Space Center or Vandenburg AFB in California.
    - Space Control. Think of this as Air Traffic Control in space. Someone has to monitor the positions of roughly 10,000 man-made objects orbiting the Earth, and de-conflict orbits. And, the US Air Force has done this for not only the country, but the world, for many years.
    - Space Operations. The satellite drivers. These guys monitor uploads and downloads of data, and direct maneuvering when appropriate.
    - Missile Warning. We use Space Command to monitor when someone else might fire a missile. This is done through a combination of satellite and ground stations.

    Additionally, Space Command has had control of the ICBM force, but this has bounced from the old Strategic Air Command to Space Command to Global Strike Command. It's unclear if this force would be part of the new Space Force or remain with the Air Force. Space Command is also the Air Force's lead agent for Cyber Security. Unclear again if this would stay with the Air Force or migrate to a new US Space Command.

    No new branch of the US military has been created since the US Air Force was ripped from the Army by the National Security Act of 1947.

    I spent the last 3 years of my 21 year Air Force career in Air Force Space Command. Trust me, the career space guys feel like second-class citizens in the AF, and would like nothing better than to have their own branch. But, doing so would be expensive.

    Personally, I don't think an independent Space Force is necessary, and that these missions fit very nicely within the USAF. Of course, the Army felt this way about shedding the Army Air Corps in 1947.

    The thing is, this action isn't within the authority of the Commander in Chief. The Congress would need to authorize the change (as they did in 1947). And, they certainly don't seem predisposed to do so.

    Of a more pressing discussion here, however, is the executive overreach. I see at least a half dozen references a day (or so it seems) to the President lying. There are times I don't think he's lying, in that there's no intent tell a falsehood. He just spouts off with whatever thought pops into his head (much like an eight-year-old will do). Things like his comment about the parents of Korean War soldiers. He may have talked to family members. He may have talked to parents of Vietnam Vets. He certainly did not talk to parents of Korean War MIAs. So, in an effort to play up the importance of forward momentum toward remains, he brings up parents. Sounds good, doesn't it? I'm not sure he intends to lie, but the falsehoods are simply the result of his inability to filter what he says. [This may very well be more frightening, and more dangerous, than a pathological liar.]

    Rather than get the facts, he'll say what sounds good. Rather than do presidential summit preparation, he'll wing it in Singapore. Rather than rely on the Congress to authorize changes to the structure of the military (and prepare a budget for the same), he'll tell the CJCS what he wants done.

    I'll welcome the Community's thoughts, both to the efficacy of an independent Space Force, and the inability of the POTUS to color within the lines.

    Go.
    This is not America...No! https://youtu.be/neLXqbR_r0E

  5. #35330
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
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    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    Trump is playing us. This is a deflection from the horror going on at the border.
    Do you really believe the POTUS is politically astute enough to come up with a distraction that would be effective? I don't.

    Even if he had the requisite political acumen, I would think he'd be able to come up with a better distraction. Bomb a Sudanese Aspirin Factory or something, not create a sixth service branch.

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
    - President Barack Obama

  6. #35331
    Word of the Year is Complicit ojo's Avatar
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    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Do you really believe the POTUS is politically astute enough to come up with a distraction that would be effective? I don't.

    Even if he had the requisite political acumen, I would think he'd be able to come up with a better distraction. Bomb a Sudanese Aspirin Factory or something, not create a sixth service branch.
    His handlers are most certainly astute enough to distract his base.

    Understood about the profanity. My apologies. This stuff enrages me though.
    This is not America...No! https://youtu.be/neLXqbR_r0E

  7. #35332
    Nice is different than good. Texsahara's Avatar
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    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    His handlers are most certainly astute enough to distract his base.
    His base doesn't need distracting. They're the 27% supporting this horror show.

  8. #35333
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    Re: President Donald Trump

    Trump arbitrarily raising up the China tariffs number is basically the exact scene from Austin Powers where he demands $1M, gets laughed at, and then makes up $100B as the new number just so everyone knows he means business.

  9. #35334

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    It breaks my heart.
    You have to wonder how many times this happens and goes unreported.



    Texas deputy sexually assaulted undocumented immigrant's child, sheriff says

    Source: nbc

    "The details of the case are quite frankly heartbreaking, disturbing, disgusting and infuriating all at the same time."

    by Erik Ortiz / Jun.18.2018 / 9:03 AM ET / Updated 9:11 AM ET

    A Texas sheriff's deputy was being held Monday on a charge of "super aggravated sexual assault" of a 4-year-old girl after authorities say her mother, an undocumented immigrant, was being blackmailed to stay silent about the abuse — or face deportation.

    Jose Nunez, a 47-year-old detention officer with the Bexar County Sheriff's Office, was arrested early Sunday while he was off-duty after the mother took her daughter to a local fire station for help, officials said at a news conference.


    "The details of the case are quite frankly heartbreaking, disturbing, disgusting and infuriating all at the same time," said Bexar County Sheriff Javier Salazar.



    The girl had been suffering from physical pain and "made an outcry," which prompted her mother to go to the fire station, Salazar said. He added that Nunez has "familial ties" to the woman and her daughter, although their exact relationship is unclear............................................

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/...m_npd_nn_tw_ma
    The presidency doesn't change who you are. It reveals who you are. First Lady Michelle Obama (2015)

  10. #35335
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Did this most recent meeting accomplish anything concrete? Of course not. Did we give anything away? Not really. People are railing about changes to joint US-South Korea exercises without an absolute guarantee NK will comply with their agreements. Guess what? NK doesn't have an absolute guarantee that we'll comply, either. That's a draw.

    The POTUS can't unilaterally create a treaty. That's why Trump could undo the Iranian Nuclear Deal, because Obama executed it as an executive agreement, and not a treaty. Ratifying a treaty is hard. You need the Senate to weigh in. That wasn't an expectation in Singapore.

    Does this meeting take us closer to, or further away from a treaty with North Korea? I have to believe it takes us closer, although only marginally so. Regardless, for a one-day sit-down, that's a success. Does this meeting take us closer to, or further away from a war with North Korea? I have to believe it takes us further away from open warfare. That is a very big success.

    Like a baseball trade, it's really impossible to assess who came out ahead. It'll take a few years before we can know for sure. But, a dialog between the respective leaders can't be a bad thing, can it?

    But we all need to assess our immediate reaction based on the nature of the relationship between the two countries, and not who is sitting behind the leader's desk. No, Trump didn't "legitimize" KJU. You legitimize a leader when there's some question who's actually in charge. Was there any doubt Kim was in charge? Do we avoid talking to him because of human rights issues in NK? No. Refusing to even talk isn't going to drive any improvements.

    What are your criteria (not you, Rhody, I mean in general) for a successful meeting?
    - A treaty of some sort? Unreasonable expectation.
    - Verifiable denuclearization? Unreasonable expectation.
    - Elimination of human rights violations in North Korea? Unreasonable expectation.
    - Framework for future work? I think so. Probably.
    - Lowering the likelihood of hostilities? I think so.

    I'm not a Trump apologist. I'm not a Trump fan. I don't like the man, and didn't vote for him. However, I can't automatically default to something is bad just because Trump touched it. In this specific case, I think he did something good. Not Nobel Prize good, because the end result is very much incomplete. But it was a step in the right direction with a rogue nation that has a burgeoning nuclear capability. And even one step in the right direction, under those conditions, is something to be desired.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    As for "nothing in return," I don't know how to process that assumption, when I look at item #3. From my viewpoint, that's not "nothing in return." In fact, it's the greatest possible return on any concessions made by the US. It's only my opinion, but the greatest desire in our dealings with North Korea ought to be the cessation of their nuclear weapon development program (and corresponding delivery systems). If we get that result in exchange for ceasing joint exercises with South Korea, WE WIN, South Korea wins, North Korea wins. Isn't that what diplomacy is supposed to achieve?
    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Seriously?

    First, the very concept of a salute stems from Medieval times, when a knight would raise his visor, to show there were no intentions to bring harm to someone. It's not a sign of subservience.

    Second, by military tradition, the salute is initiated by the lower ranking person, and returned by the higher ranking officer. In this case, the salute was originated by the North Korean General. It would have been rude for the President to ignore it.

    I don't find anything funny about the outrage. I'm frustrated by it. Trump could say "the sun rises in the East," and his detractors would quibble about it, determine that it's technically not exactly 090 degrees, and scream that he was lying.

    The man makes enough absurd comments and ridiculous tweets. To rail about extending a military courtesy to a foreign general is ludicrous. Save the outrage for things that are deserving of the outrage.

    If you hated the GOP's NotObama positions, how on Earth can you justify a NotTrump philosophy? Want to complain about the tax cut? Go for it. Want to complain about immigration policy? Be my guest. But to complain about even meeting with Kim (particularly if you applauded Obama's meeting with Castro), or to complain about returning an officer's salute is close-minded and (strictly in my opinion) childish.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Of a more pressing discussion here, however, is the executive overreach. I see at least a half dozen references a day (or so it seems) to the President lying. There are times I don't think he's lying, in that there's no intent tell a falsehood. He just spouts off with whatever thought pops into his head (much like an eight-year-old will do). Things like his comment about the parents of Korean War soldiers. He may have talked to family members. He may have talked to parents of Vietnam Vets. He certainly did not talk to parents of Korean War MIAs. So, in an effort to play up the importance of forward momentum toward remains, he brings up parents. Sounds good, doesn't it? I'm not sure he intends to lie, but the falsehoods are simply the result of his inability to filter what he says. [This may very well be more frightening, and more dangerous, than a pathological liar.]

    Rather than get the facts, he'll say what sounds good. Rather than do presidential summit preparation, he'll wing it in Singapore. Rather than rely on the Congress to authorize changes to the structure of the military (and prepare a budget for the same), he'll tell the CJCS what he wants done.

    I'll welcome the Community's thoughts, both to the efficacy of an independent Space Force, and the inability of the POTUS to color within the lines.

    Go.
    Maynerd, I've been meaning to get back to you for a week, and I''m not sure I can do it in one post. I'm picking out your posts because you articulate a number of points that frustrate me no end, and you articulate them clearly and intelligently. Unfortunately, you're wrong.

    It's always so easy to take each thing Trump does in isolation, compare it with something someone else did sometime, cut slack for his lack of censorship, and minimize the result. If I don't like something that's roughly analogous to something Obama did, or if I seem to make a bigger deal out of something than seems worthwhile, or if I'm constantly, every day, criticizing him for everything - it's partisanship, it's irrational hatred of Trump, it's double standards.

    No. The things he does can't always be taken in isolation; his random tweets are important; and if you're not feeling outrage, it may be because you're numb to the outrages he commits towards us and our system every day. If I pick on everything, it's because everything matters, because it all fits together.

    Taken in the most narrow terms, there's nothing wrong with the North Korea deal. I think it's nothing, period - Trump may not have given up much of anything, but what he got in return was a pledge Korea has made many times in the past, and that Kim himself made two months ago. Saluting a North Korean general? Stupid, bad, but not a major blunder.

    But you can't look at it in isolation. Trump had just come from the G7 meeting, where he treated the entire Western alliance as if it were trash, a problem rather than a strength. He didn't want to go, he asked why Russia wasn't there, he acted like a petulant child, he insulted our allies, he got personal about strictly business matters, he puffed out his chest and bragged. His America First doctrine is turning more and more into America Alone, attacking the European alliance, attacking NAFTA, pulling out of TPP, acting unilaterally and without concern for our allies in the Iran deal, the tariffs, and all his rhetoric. The result is that we are becoming increasingly isolated, and other countries are increasingly figuring out how they're going to go about their business without us.

    Did I expect more than nothing out of the Korea deal? No, not really - but Trump played it up before and after as if it were an historic personal achievement on his part. It's been argued that, well, he brought us away from the precipice of war, but I think his bellicose rhetoric was the primary reason we had come close in the first place. Yes, Kim tested some missiles and talked some trash, but I don't believe for a second that he had any intentions of starting a war. He's ruthless, but I don't see any reason to think he's stupid. There are lots of ways to deal with that without tough, swaggering fire-and-fury threats. But, of course, those ways don't put Trump's machismo and dictatorial swagger front and center, and if it's not all about him, forget it.

    Once in Singapore, of course he had to be cordial to Kim. But that's not what he did; he praised Kim effusively, ridiculously, embarrassingly. His people love him? Genuine fervor? FFS, what world is he living in? Sure, he says, Kim has done some unsavory things, but actually makes them sound like positives because they show how well he was able to take control in a difficult situation. No, this isn't diplomacy. It's a man-crush, coming out of Trump's genuine, repeatedly expressed admiration for autocrats, to the point where I genuinely believe he's envious of them. I'll get back to that.

    No, he didn't give up much, but he gave it up without consulting South Korea or Japan, our legitimate allies in the region. He has treated every ally we have with indifference or outright contempt, he is willing to toss away our longstanding relationships as well as any deal he can undo. Then he comes back and talks about what can be accomplished when people are negotiating in good faith, which he believes was the case. Really? He thinks he won Kim's confidence, and his honesty, when he has shown himself incapable of any sort of good-faith negotiations?

    Returning the Korean general's salute was a small, symbolic thing, but international relations and diplomacy are conducted in the realm of small, symbolic things. In doing that, Trump reinforced the message of respect to North Korea in the context of disrespect to our allies in Europe and Asia. It showed his tendencies to act as if he were a military leader, and how intoxicated he is by the idea. Remember, this is the guy who is going to hold a military parade in his own honor, and now wants to be the caudillo of space as well.

    If only he had anything like the same respect for any democratic institutions, any at all. But he thinks being president puts him above any institutions, that he's in charge of them. He has left the State Department stripped bare, because he can handle all the diplomacy himself (despite being really bad at it). He is furious to discover that law enforcement doesn't exist to serve him and punish his enemies. He describes the free press as the greatest enemy our country has. (Seriously, try to wrap your head around that one.) When it comes to people in government, he doesn't care about competence or intelligence or expertise or experience or honesty or dedication; he cares about loyalty, period.

    Are all his false statements lies? Maybe not, in the sense that he doesn't care if they're true or not, just if they fit his narrative. What he does is to attack the distinction between truth and untruth. Orwell said that " to be corrupted by totalitarianism one does not have to live in a totalitarian country," and described Trump precisely:

    From the totalitarian point of view history is something to be created rather than learned. A totalitarian state is in effect a theocracy, and its ruling caste, in order to keep its position, has to be thought of as infallible. But since, in practice, no one is infallible, it is frequently necessary to rearrange past events in order to show that this or that mistake was not made, or that this or that imaginary triumph actually happened. Then again, every major change in policy demands a corresponding change of doctrine and a revelation of prominent historical figures. This kind of thing happens everywhere, but is clearly likelier to lead to outright falsification in societies where only one opinion is permissible at any given moment. Totalitarianism demands, in fact, the continuous alteration of the past, and in the long run probably demands a disbelief in the very existence of objective truth.
    Trump is a totalitarian frustrated by the fact that he doesn't live in a totalitarian country. When he said, “[Kim] speaks and his people sit up at attention. I want my people to do the same,” I don't think he was joking. (I don't think he's capable of joking; he has no sense of humor, only mockery.) . Maybe he didn't mean it literally - that would require some sense of literal truth - but I think he really does wish he were treated with that kind of reverence. And the most telling thing about it was his use of "my people," which I don't think he meant as a joke at all. I don't think he thinks of himself as "our president," but of us as "his people." (And the government as his government.)

    This is why all the little things can't be treated as little - they're all of a piece, and all contribute to his assault on truth. You're right that we shouldn't let those little things distract us from more important ones - Peter Strzok should definitely be brought up on criminal charges, but why aren't we talking so much more about him than about Scott Pruitt or Wilbur Ross? But we still shouldn't ignore his constant dishonesty about everything, his constant attacks on anyone who disagrees with him, his disrespect for domestic and international norms that have kept us functioning for 75 years. Sure, those things can be criticized, and should be - but he offers nothing to replace them except Trump. All he does is tear down.

    So yes, other presidents have lied. Obama met with Castro, and showed deference to the wrong people at times. It's possible to take a lot of individual policies or actions and see them as comparable to this that Hillary did, or that that Obama did, or whatever. But that misses the point; take a step back, look at the whole picture, and holy crap, we've never seen anything remotely resembling Trump. This isn't blind, knee-jerk, partisan anti-Trumpism, it's clear-eyed anti-Trumpism. If I'm not willing to give him enough credit for something he does right, it's because I think it's more or less accidental. I don't think he does a single thing because it's right, he does everything because Trump. Please don't write this off as my personal animus, because it's based on what he says and does. And it all counts.

    I feel like I've barely scratched the surface, and I don't know if this makes sense, and I'll probably still be dismissed as a Trump-hater (especially because tl;dr). But I'll stand by all of it.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  11. #35336

    Re: President Donald Trump

    There's a good chance a bunch of these kids wind up dead and an even greater chance they'll never see their family again. How has it come to this?

  12. #35337
    Nice is different than good. Texsahara's Avatar
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    Re: President Donald Trump

    Good post, JL. You said a lot of what I feel but I would never have the patience to write it all out like that.

  13. #35338
    Not fooling anyone. Soriambi's Avatar
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    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by LouisLitt View Post
    There's a good chance a bunch of these kids wind up dead and an even greater chance they'll never see their family again. How has it come to this?
    It's very frustrating. I can't remember the last time I was so viscerally upset about a policy.
    -Kevin

    "My point is you can't compare things with statistics." Joe Morgan


    "I'd have won that trial. I've often said that." Stephen A. Smith on the OJ Simpson trial

    RIP, Pete.

  14. #35339
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    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Texsahara View Post
    Good post, JL. You said a lot of what I feel but I would never have the patience to write it all out like that.
    Agreed.

  15. #35340

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    Agreed.
    What Rick and Tex posted.
    The presidency doesn't change who you are. It reveals who you are. First Lady Michelle Obama (2015)

  16. #35341
    Not fooling anyone. Soriambi's Avatar
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    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Texsahara View Post
    Good post, JL. You said a lot of what I feel but I would never have the patience to write it all out like that.
    I actually bookmarked it so I can just post a link to it next time this issue comes up.
    -Kevin

    "My point is you can't compare things with statistics." Joe Morgan


    "I'd have won that trial. I've often said that." Stephen A. Smith on the OJ Simpson trial

    RIP, Pete.

  17. #35342

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Texsahara View Post
    Good post, JL. You said a lot of what I feel but I would never have the patience to write it all out like that.
    Ditto

  18. #35343
    Nice is different than good. Texsahara's Avatar
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    Sep 2011

    Re: President Donald Trump

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-sou...ust-1529369950

    The Pentagon said Monday that it had agreed with South Korea to cancel an important military exercise that was scheduled for later this summer, in keeping with President Donald Trump’s pledge to halt war games while talks are under way with North Korea.
    Mr. Trump had long pondered the prospect of halting such exercises after the suggestion was first made to him last summer by Russian President Vladimir Putin, according to U.S. officials. Both Russia and China are on the record as saying they would like the U.S. to freeze exercises, and North Korea has long complained about the maneuvers, calling them proof of U.S. “ambition for military confrontation” against North Korea in a commentary on May 29.

    “I shouldn’t be surprised,” said one government official. “But it is a surprise to me that the United States would consider this an appealing point to concede on because it is 100% what Russia and China have been pushing on our senior leadership and we’ve pushed back and said that it’s not appropriate.”

  19. #35344
    Word of the Year is Complicit ojo's Avatar
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    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Texsahara View Post
    Good post, JL. You said a lot of what I feel but I would never have the patience to write it all out like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    Agreed.
    Quote Originally Posted by BRenninger View Post
    What Rick and Tex posted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Soriambi View Post
    I actually bookmarked it so I can just post a link to it next time this issue comes up.
    Seriously. All of this.
    This is not America...No! https://youtu.be/neLXqbR_r0E

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