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  1. #48976

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by jlw1980 View Post
    Yeah, doing volunteer work in minority communities doesn't mean one isn't racist. Voting for Trump and his ilk perpetuates the systemic harm done to communities of color. Small-scale actions don't change that.
    ďIím volunteering in minority communities because those minorities are too stupid to do it themselves. Itís not their fault though, they just donít have the same brainpower as we do.Ē

  2. #48977
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Wow, this is getting unnecessarily harsh.

    Jenn, if we're going to insist that racism is really a structural and systemic problem rather than an individual one, it doesnít make sense to use that to turn around and use that to label individuals as racist. It undermines the point weíve been trying to make; it's self-righteous and judgmental; and itís lazy. Itís also hypocritical - yes, really - because we all live in that racist system, and we all help perpetuate it.

    Categorical thinking is glibly satisfying. Just toss people into the "bad" box and stop thinking about it. The people False1 describes donít sound to me like bad people. In fact, they sound like pretty good people who are trying very hard to do the right thing. How they also manage to be Trump voters is beyond me, but they sound like people I might be able to talk to - provided I donít begin the conversation by calling them racists. Who knows, maybe I could cast some doubts in their minds.

    They might genuinely, in good faith, believe that a border wall is important to national security, that stop-and-frisk was a useful strategy that happened to focus on the communities where the crime was, that disparate outcomes donít have to do with racism but with community values and individual choices. I would think theyíre tragically wrong, but it wouldnít make them bad people who have to be shunned. They also might not see systemic racism and white privilege in the same way I do, but neither do most Americans. Casey, I donít have any reason to think that their community work and adoption of a coc (child of color) is condescending. I said that it doesnít have much of anything to do with racism because it doesnít affect the structures, but they are doing concrete things that improve some lives. Why would I criticize them for that, much less toss them straight into the deplorable basket?

    I donít know, maybe these people we could win over. Maybe they donít spend as much time reading news, thinking about politics, or engaging in airy intellectual conversation as we do, because theyíre too busy going out and doing things. I may hate that theyíre Trump supporters, but calling them bad, racist people isnít warranted or useful. People are more complicated than that.

    Edit: whatever phrase one of you is planning to pull out of this, no, Iím not.

  3. #48978
    Not fooling anyone. Soriambi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    New Jersey

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Wow, this is getting unnecessarily harsh.

    Jenn, if we're going to insist that racism is really a structural and systemic problem rather than an individual one, it doesnít make sense to use that to turn around and use that to label individuals as racist. It undermines the point weíve been trying to make; it's self-righteous and judgmental; and itís lazy. Itís also hypocritical - yes, really - because we all live in that racist system, and we all help perpetuate it.

    Categorical thinking is glibly satisfying. Just toss people into the "bad" box and stop thinking about it. The people False1 describes donít sound to me like bad people. In fact, they sound like pretty good people who are trying very hard to do the right thing. How they also manage to be Trump voters is beyond me, but they sound like people I might be able to talk to - provided I donít begin the conversation by calling them racists.

    Most Americans, I think, donít understand systemic racism and white privilege in the same way we do; in this forum, there are intelligent, educated people who think of racism in terms of individual animosity, and

    Edit: dammit, not done again. Iím finishing this.
    Well said, except for it cutting off in the middle.
    -Kevin

    "My point is you can't compare things with statistics." Joe Morgan


    "I'd have won that trial. I've often said that." Stephen A. Smith on the OJ Simpson trial

    RIP, Pete.

  4. #48979

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Wow, this is getting unnecessarily harsh.

    Jenn, if we're going to insist that racism is really a structural and systemic problem rather than an individual one, it doesn’t make sense to use that to turn around and use that to label individuals as racist. It undermines the point we’ve been trying to make; it's self-righteous and judgmental; and it’s lazy. It’s also hypocritical - yes, really - because we all live in that racist system, and we all help perpetuate it.

    Categorical thinking is glibly satisfying. Just toss people into the "bad" box and stop thinking about it. The people False1 describes don’t sound to me like bad people. In fact, they sound like pretty good people who are trying very hard to do the right thing. How they also manage to be Trump voters is beyond me, but they sound like people I might be able to talk to - provided I don’t begin the conversation by calling them racists. Who knows, maybe I could cast some doubts in their minds.

    They might genuinely, in good faith, believe that a border wall is important to national security, that stop-and-frisk was a useful strategy that happened to focus on the communities where the crime was, that disparate outcomes don’t have to do with racism but with community values and individual choices. I would think they’re tragically wrong, but it wouldn’t make them bad people who have to be shunned. They also might not see systemic racism and white privilege in the same way I do, but neither do most Americans. Casey, I don’t have any reason to think that their community work and adoption of a coc (child of color) is condescending. I said that it doesn’t have much of anything to do with racism because it doesn’t affect the structures, but they are doing concrete things that improve some lives. Why would I criticize them for that, much less toss them straight into the deplorable basket?

    I don’t know, maybe these people we could win over. Maybe they don’t spend as much time reading news, thinking about politics, or engaging in airy intellectual conversation as we do, because they’re too busy going out and doing things. I may hate that they’re Trump supporters, but calling them bad, racist people isn’t warranted or useful. People are more complicated than that.

    Edit: whatever phrase one of you is planning to pull out of this, no, I’m not.

    I don't believe that adopting a COC is racist at all. But as a minority working at a non-profit children's facility that predominantly served minorities for nearly two decades, I've experienced the latter. No, not every non-white person who does community work in the inner city is racist, but I can tell you from experience that there are definitely volunteers who think as I posted above. I've actually had them say that to me directly, with different wording (even though I was an employee), and I've had to correct them. It's the White Savior complex, only much closer to my home.

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