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  1. #23826

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Yep, the whole world sees it.

    Although he has only been in office a few months, Donald Trump’s presidency has had a major
    impact on how the world sees the United States. Trump and many of his key policies are broadly
    unpopular around the globe, and ratings for the U.S. have declined steeply in many nations.
    According to a new Pew Research Center survey spanning 37 nations, a median of just 22% has
    confidence in Trump to do the right thing when it comes to international affairs. This stands in
    contrast to the final years of Barack Obama’s presidency, when a median of 64% expressed
    confidence in Trump’s predecessor to direct America’s role in the world.
    http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-con...ull-Report.pdf
    Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers- George Carlin

  2. #23827

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    Let's say it wasn't the hate group that was being violent, but the protesters who found what they were saying to be deeply offensive.
    Let's say it wasn't the protesters who were being violent but members of the hate group disguised as protesters who were being violent

    We can drive ourselves crazy with this kind of thinking.

    The problem in Charlottesville was the lack of police presence and the failure to block off streets. Small town police like the ones in Charlottesville aren't really trained or experienced in managing these kinds of events. They should have been provided with additional resources from the state police. The mayor and the governor have been busy pointing fingers. The fingers should be pointed right back at them for gross incompetence.

    People of all persuasions have a right to assemble and should not be denied that right. But the events should be properly managed in a proactive way. If the local police don't have adequate resources or training, then the necessary resources and expertise should be provided for them.

  3. #23828

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Let's say it wasn't the protesters who were being violent but members of the hate group disguised as protesters who were being violent

    We can drive ourselves crazy with this kind of thinking.

    The problem in Charlottesville was the lack of police presence and the failure to block off streets. Small town police like the ones in Charlottesville aren't really trained or experienced in managing these kinds of events. They should have been provided with additional resources from the state police. The mayor and the governor have been busy pointing fingers. The fingers should be pointed right back at them for gross incompetence.

    People of all persuasions have a right to assemble and should not be denied that right. But the events should be properly managed in a proactive way. If the local police don't have adequate resources or training, then the necessary resources and expertise should be provided for them.
    The point of my example was that you don't want 'the possibility of violence' to be a reason to deny a group a permit, otherwise a group in opposition can use that to shut down any group with which they disagree.

    I think you and I are in agreement on that.

  4. #23829

    Re: President Donald Trump

    I have an idea for those who want to keep the statues of Civil War heroes. Let's add statues honoring the victims of slavery. Let's also add statues of Civil Rights heroes. How about statues to the Civil War heroes who fought successfully to preserve the Union. We could put statues of Union generals like Grant and Sherman right next to the ones for Lee and Stonewall Jackson.

    Maybe Montgomery can put up a statue for Rosa Parks. And Birmingham can put up a statue of the 4 black girls who were killed in the church bombing there. How about statues for Schwerner, Cheney, & Goodman in Philadelphia, MS? And one for Medgar Evers in Jackson, MS. And one for Emmett Till in Money, MS. Mississippi sure would be getting a lot of statues.

    You know the rationale for the current statues. These people were part of history. They mean something to a lot of people even today. They're right. Well, Medgar Evers, Rosa Parks, and the rest were part of history too. And they also mean something to a lot of people even today.

    BTW, I'm still looking for people to sign my petition for a Benedict Arnold statue. If the South can have statues to treasonous traitors, then we in New England are entitled to our share as well. After all, Arnold was part of history. Can't change history.

  5. #23830

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    The point of my example was that you don't want 'the possibility of violence' to be a reason to deny a group a permit, otherwise a group in opposition can use that to shut down any group with which they disagree.

    I think you and I are in agreement on that.
    We certainly are.

    As far back as Skokie, the courts have upheld the right of citizens to peacefully and lawfully assemble and to exercise their First Amendment rights regardless if we like what they have to say.

    I do think that the concerns about violence are legitimate regardless of whose to blame. Heck, we have drunk young men of Irish descent getting into fights after the St. Patrick's Day Parade on 5th Avenue every year, but we don't ban the St. Patrick's Day Parade. All I'm saying is that the concern for public safety should be addressed with proper preparations and proper event management. That was not done in Charlottesville

    One of my favorite examples of denying citizens their right to assemble was the so-called "Beatnik Riot" in Washington Square in 1961. In his infinite wisdom, the mayor decided to ban singing in that park, something which had become a long established local tradition there on Sundays. The locals decided that they would gather anyway. On the first Sunday of the ban, the police showed up in force as well. The gathering decided that they would sing The Star Spangles Banner. So we had the ridiculous spectacle of the police arresting people for singing the national anthem, subduing them with night sticks, and taking them away in paddy wagons.

    It's from mistakes like that one that big city police forces have learned effective techniques of crowd management I difficult circumstances.

  6. #23831
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    I have an idea for those who want to keep the statues of Civil War heroes. Let's add statues honoring the victims of slavery. Let's also add statues of Civil Rights heroes. How about statues to the Civil War heroes who fought successfully to preserve the Union. We could put statues of Union generals like Grant and Sherman right next to the ones for Lee and Stonewall Jackson.

    Maybe Montgomery can put up a statue for Rosa Parks. And Birmingham can put up a statue of the 4 black girls who were killed in the church bombing there. How about statues for Schwerner, Cheney, & Goodman in Philadelphia, MS? And one for Medgar Evers in Jackson, MS. And one for Emmett Till in Money, MS. Mississippi sure would be getting a lot of statues.

    You know the rationale for the current statues. These people were part of history. They mean something to a lot of people even today. They're right. Well, Medgar Evers, Rosa Parks, and the rest were part of history too. And they also mean something to a lot of people even today.

    BTW, I'm still looking for people to sign my petition for a Benedict Arnold statue. If the South can have statues to treasonous traitors, then we in New England are entitled to our share as well. After all, Arnold was part of history. Can't change history.
    I think the statues you suggest are a fine idea. Let's put them all up. Then let's tear down the Confederate statues, which have no business being there in the first place.

    Seriously, "balance" accomplishes nothing except the suggestion that both sides - those who fought for the United States and those who rebelled treasonously against it, those who fought for civil rights and those who fought to continue slavery - are equally deserving of honor.

  7. #23832

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I think the statues you suggest are a fine idea. Let's put them all up. Then let's tear down the Confederate statues, which have no business being there in the first place.

    Seriously, "balance" accomplishes nothing except the suggestion that both sides - those who fought for the United States and those who rebelled treasonously against it, those who fought for civil rights and those who fought to continue slavery - are equally deserving of honor.
    My proposal for balance was tongue in cheek.

    But it would be worth keeping them all up and adding the others just to hear the hew and cry that would go up when Gen. Sherman's statue was erected in Atlanta, celebrating his march through the South. I'd pay the price of admission just to hear the protests of those who would object because they found the Sherman statue offensive. Maybe then they would understand how so many others feel passing by the statues of the Civil War traitors.

    Two of Stonewall Jackson's great great grandsons have spoken out in support of his statue being removed. If anyone doubts why the Congederate statues exist, Jackson's relative, who works at UNC Chapel Hill, recalls the dedication speech in 1913 for the "Silent Sam" Confederate soldier statue on the UNC campus when the presenter digressed to recall his "pleasant duty" of horsewhipping a black woman on that very spot. The beating he gave her was so severe that it left her clothes in tatters. Every time an African American student walks by that statue he can reflect on its true meaning and what it means for her/him.

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