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  1. #39026
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Jul 2006

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Where do you draw the line? And, who gets to draw it?

    Murder, attempted murder, manslaughter.......sorry, you can't vote anymore.

    What about larceny, fraud, arson, kidnapping, child pornography, perjury, blackmail, forgery?

    Is the arsonist OK to vote, provided nobody got hurt in the fire? Is the kidnapper OK to vote, provided he returned the kid unharmed?

    It would seem a non-violent felon found guilty of treason has still sacrificed his future right to vote, hasn't he?

    I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. I'm just saying there's a lot more to it than "unless the crimes were violent..."
    The Florida amendment covers everything except murder and sexual felonies. Other violent crimes - well, you've served your time, you're allowed to do most things. Voting is the first thing you should be able to do.

    As for drawing the line, it's a question you ask frequently, but usually the answer is pretty simple. In this case, as in many others, the legislature usually draws that line (just as they define those crimes in the first place. Here, the legislature is being bypassed by a referendum, which is another way of deciding.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  2. #39027
    Not fooling anyone. Soriambi's Avatar
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    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Texsahara View Post
    Voting should be an unassailable right for all citizens. Being incarcerated does not take away your citizenship and should not take away your right to vote. Felony disenfranchisement became common after the civil war. It is racist in origin and remains that way due to the systemic racial bias in the criminal justice system. The disenfranchisement rate among African-Americans is three times that of the population as a whole.
    Agreed. Also agree with John that line drawing is usually not nearly as difficult as it's made out to be here.
    -Kevin

    "My point is you can't compare things with statistics." Joe Morgan


    "I'd have won that trial. I've often said that." Stephen A. Smith on the OJ Simpson trial

    RIP, Pete.

  3. #39028
    NYYF Legend

    RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees's Avatar
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    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by jlw1980 View Post
    Unless the crimes were violent, I totally agree.

    A few days ago on NPR I heard a story about an Arizona man who was convicted of murder at age 15. He spent 20 years in prison and now wants to vote. I'm not sure what I think about that one. Yes, he was only 15, but he willfully took someone's life.

    https://www.azpm.org/p/home-articles...with-felonies/
    I think all people should be allowed to vote, even if election day is Tuesday and they're being executed on Wednesday. Not too complicated that way.

  4. #39029

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees View Post
    I think all people should be allowed to vote, even if election day is Tuesday and they're being executed on Wednesday. Not too complicated that way.
    Yep. No need to worry about where to draw the line if you just abolish lines.
    The feminist agenda ... encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians. ~Pat Robertson 1992

  5. #39030
    NYYF Legend

    Nome's Avatar
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    Branchburg, NJ 08876

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Texsahara View Post
    Yep. No need to worry about where to draw the line if you just abolish lines.
    a
    I disagree, if you are in Jail you shouldn't have the right to vote. Out of jail you should be able to vote.
    Andy
    Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.

  6. #39031

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Nome View Post
    a
    I disagree, if you are in Jail you shouldn't have the right to vote. Out of jail you should be able to vote.
    Andy
    Why not?
    The feminist agenda ... encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians. ~Pat Robertson 1992

  7. #39032

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Nome View Post
    a
    I disagree, if you are in Jail you shouldn't have the right to vote. Out of jail you should be able to vote.
    Andy
    Serious question, why? Even if youkre in jail, the laws being voted on may affect you or your family. Why shouldn’t you be allowed to elect people that represent you, or vote on laws?

    And, of course, what if you’re really innocent?

  8. #39033
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Jul 2006
    Quote Originally Posted by Casey at the Bat View Post
    Serious question, why? Even if youkre in jail, the laws being voted on may affect you or your family. Why shouldn’t you be allowed to elect people that represent you, or vote on laws?

    And, of course, what if you’re really innocent?
    Everyone in prison is really innocent. Just ask them.

    I’m on the fence about people who are currently incarcerated. They do lose a lot of basic constitutional rights, and the whole idea is that, for one reason or another, they’ve been removed from society. I wouldn’t argue for that too strongly.

    However, the more I think about it, the more I beli ve that even murderers and sex felons should be re-enfranchised. They’ve served their time, their debt is paid, and I don’t see any reason they shouldn’t have full citizenship rights.

  9. #39034
    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Everyone in prison is really innocent. Just ask them.

    I’m on the fence about people who are currently incarcerated. They do lose a lot of basic constitutional rights, and the whole idea is that, for one reason or another, they’ve been removed from society. I wouldn’t argue for that too strongly.

    However, the more I think about it, the more I beli ve that even murderers and sex felons should be re-enfranchised. They’ve served their time, their debt is paid, and I don’t see any reason they shouldn’t have full citizenship rights.
    I might reconsider if the criminal justice system was not so racist. Probably not but I might.

  10. #39035
    Let's go Rangers! RhodyYanksFan's Avatar
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    lil'rhody

    Re: President Donald Trump

    While everyone was talking about Kanye....

    https://thehill.com/policy/energy-en...ronment-office

    The Senate voted Thursday to confirm a climate change skeptic and former industry attorney to lead the Department of Justice’s (DOJ) environment division.

    Lawmakers voted 52 to 45 to confirm Jeffrey Bossert Clark to be the assistant attorney general for environment and natural resources. Sens. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) and Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.), both running for reelection GOP states, joined all Republicans present in voting to confirm Clark.

    Clark is and attorney at the law firm Kirkland & Ellis, where he has represented numerous industry clients, including oil giant BP in its efforts to fight certain claims from the 2010 Deepwater Horizon disaster and spill, and the Chamber of Commerce. He’s said climate change science is “contestable.”
    Once again, Joe Manchin is the worst (democrat).

  11. #39036

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Everyone in prison is really innocent. Just ask them.

    I’m on the fence about people who are currently incarcerated. They do lose a lot of basic constitutional rights, and the whole idea is that, for one reason or another, they’ve been removed from society. I wouldn’t argue for that too strongly.

    However, the more I think about it, the more I beli ve that even murderers and sex felons should be re-enfranchised. They’ve served their time, their debt is paid, and I don’t see any reason they shouldn’t have full citizenship rights.
    Only in Shawshank.

  12. #39037
    NYYF Legend

    Yankee Tripper's Avatar
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    Left coast

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan View Post
    While everyone was talking about Kanye....

    https://thehill.com/policy/energy-en...ronment-office

    Once again, Joe Manchin is the worst (democrat).
    On this one it's way more on the people who voted for Trump.
    Seriously Trump's just going to keep nominating anti environment people to the EPA (Environmental Prevention Agency) and the Republicans hold the Senate. It's not like they can be blocked.



    Plus Manchin represents Coal Country in WVA.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  13. #39038

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Casey at the Bat View Post
    Only in Shawshank.
    How can you be so obtuse?
    "A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people."
    -- Declaration of Independence

  14. #39039

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by jlw1980 View Post
    How can you be so obtuse?
    I’m trying to think of a comeback for this, but I can’t.

  15. #39040
    Word of the Year is Complicit ojo's Avatar
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    Aug 2002
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    Canada's basement

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Casey at the Bat View Post
    I’m trying to think of a comeback for this, but I can’t.
    Oh I'm sure you can think of a cute one.
    This is not America...No! https://youtu.be/neLXqbR_r0E

  16. #39041
    Quote Originally Posted by Casey at the Bat View Post
    I’m trying to think of a comeback for this, but I can’t.
    Good. It could end up as time in the hole.

  17. #39042
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006

    Re: President Donald Trump

    At his latest rally in Ohio:

    It also gave you a general who was incredible. He drank a little bit too much. You know who I’m talking about right? So Robert E. Lee was a great general. And Abraham Lincoln developed a phobia. He couldn’t beat Robert E. Lee.

    He was going crazy. I don’t know if you know this story. But Robert E. Lee was winning battle after battle after battle. And Abraham Lincoln came home, he said, 'I can’t beat Robert E. Lee.' And he had all of his generals, they looked great, they were the top of their class at West Point. They were the greatest people. There’s only one problem — they didn’t know how the hell to win. They didn’t know how to fight. They didn’t know how.

    And one day, it was looking really bad. And Lincoln just said, 'You,' hardly knew his name. And they said, 'Don’t take him, he’s got a drinking problem.' And Lincoln said, 'I don’t care what problem he has. You guys aren’t winning.'

    And his name was Grant. General Grant. And he went in and he knocked the hell out of everyone. And you know the story. They said to Lincoln, 'You can’t use him anymore, he’s an alcoholic.' And Lincoln said, 'I don’t care if he’s an alcoholic, frankly, give me six or seven more just like him.' He started to win. Grant really did — he had a serious problem, a serious drinking problem, but man was he a good general. And he’s finally being recognized as a great general.

    But Lincoln had almost developed a phobia, because he was having a hard time with a true great fighter, a great general Robert E. Lee. But Grant figured it out. And Grant is a great general, and Grant came from right here.
    Well, okay, then.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  18. #39043

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan View Post
    While everyone was talking about Kanye....

    https://thehill.com/policy/energy-en...ronment-office



    Once again, Joe Manchin is the worst (democrat).
    Nope, he’s just protecting his seat. His vote made no difference. When it matters, he’s a reliably Democratic vote except on coal.

  19. #39044

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Everyone in prison is really innocent. Just ask them.
    Or ask the Innocence Project.

  20. #39045

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Nope, he’s just protecting his seat. His vote made no difference. When it matters, he’s a reliably Democratic vote except on coal.
    That's incorrect although I guess you might define "when it matters" differently than I would.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...e-manchin-iii/
    The feminist agenda ... encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians. ~Pat Robertson 1992

  21. #39046
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Jul 2006
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Or ask the Innocence Project.
    I donate to the Innocence Project. They do great work.

  22. #39047

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Thank you, Lesley Stahl, for doing the job journalists should have been doing all along by pushing back on the parade of lies.

  23. #39048
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Trump: I’m not denying climate change. But it could very well go back. You know, we’re talking about over a millions...

    Stahl: But that’s denying it.

    Trump: ...of years. They say that we had hurricanes that were far worse than what we just had with Michael.

    Stahl: Who says that? "They say?"

    Trump: People say. People say that it in the —

    Stahl: Yeah, but what about the scientists who say it’s worse than ever?

    Trump: You’d have to show me the scientists because they have a very big political agenda, Leslie.

  24. #39049
    NYYF Legend

    theDurk's Avatar
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    Basking Ridge, NJ

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Everyone in prison is really innocent. Just ask them.

    I’m on the fence about people who are currently incarcerated. They do lose a lot of basic constitutional rights, and the whole idea is that, for one reason or another, they’ve been removed from society. I wouldn’t argue for that too strongly.

    However, the more I think about it, the more I beli ve that even murderers and sex felons should be re-enfranchised. They’ve served their time, their debt is paid, and I don’t see any reason they shouldn’t have full citizenship rights.
    There is also the practical problem of what it would do to local races. Some prisons are in out-of-the-way places where a few thousand inmates could be a voting bloc that would dominate the local precinct/district. The potential for "complications" is real.

    Other than that, I also agree with full restitution upon time served, regardless of offence. if they get their passport back and pay taxes, they should vote.
    "Deep to left! Yastrzemski will not get it! It's a home run! A three-run homer by Bucky Dent! And the Yankees now lead by a score of 3-2!" - New York Yankees announcer Bill White (October 2, 1978)

  25. #39050

    Re: President Donald Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Casey at the Bat View Post
    I’m trying to think of a comeback for this, but I can’t.
    That's because you're a Red Sox fan.
    "A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people."
    -- Declaration of Independence

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