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Thread: Education

  1. #476
    Let's go Rangers! RhodyYanksFan's Avatar
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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Sadly, that's pretty much unnecessary to say. ALL teachers are underpaid.
    Yup. They are fighting with the school committee for 2% raises. Meanwhile they're currently paying the old superintendent's final year of his contract while also paying the new superintendent who also got a 15% salary bump over the old one. So yes they're paying 215% of superintendent salary over last year for one person to learn his new job.

    They also got new principal and vice-principal at the middle school each getting 7-10% more than their predecessors.

    But they can't afford to give the lowest paid teachers in the state a raise.

  2. #477
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan View Post
    Yup. They are fighting with the school committee for 2% raises. Meanwhile they're currently paying the old superintendent's final year of his contract while also paying the new superintendent who also got a 15% salary bump over the old one. So yes they're paying 215% of superintendent salary over last year for one person to learn his new job.

    They also got new principal and vice-principal at the middle school each getting 7-10% more than their predecessors.

    But they can't afford to give the lowest paid teachers in the state a raise.
    Some of this is cultural. A generation or two ago, most public school teachers were women, when women weren't routinely working outside the home. So, their income was only supplementing the income of the "bread winner." Those days are gone. Long gone. But teacher pay has not recovered. That's inexcusable.

    A generation or two ago, most public schools had a principal, maybe an assistant, and a counselor or two. Today, the administrative staff at schools, and certainly at the central administration of a school district, is vastly larger. So, teachers get a smaller slice of the pie, meaning any increases over the last few decades have been siphoned away from teachers, and gone to the administrative burden.

    Finally, there's that pesky summer vacation thing. We need to stop penalizing educators because the kids aren't in school 12 months of the year. Most teachers I know more than make up for that with the hours they put in during the school year. Sure, there are some who head for the door at 3:00 every afternoon. There are far more who are still there at 4:00, and then bring a briefcase full of papers home to grade.

    Unless and until we treat educators as professionals (and that includes pay), we're not going to attract the right people into education.

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
    - President Barack Obama

  3. #478

    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    And those kids will be more successful, whether in a public school, a private school, or a charter. We get so caught up in rating the effectiveness of individual schools, or individual teachers, that we lose sight of this difficult-to-measure but oh-so-important variable. A kid with involved, participating parents is going to do better in school, even with a marginal teacher, than a kid with the best teacher in the world, if his parents are apathetic about his education.
    You've brought up parent participation a few times here and I've responded pretty much the same way. I agree that it's hugely important but I don't think apathy is the right word for many if not most.

    How many kids have parents that don't speak English? Single parent working two jobs while raising multiple kids? Living with elderly grandparent because Mom is a junkie and no idea what happened to dad? Parents that are simply doing what their parents did and their parents before them and don't have any understanding of how it can be different? And so on.

    Schools have to find ways to teach those kids. They should not be denied a good education because of the circumstances of birth. If parental participation has to be required for kids to succeed, it's a losing battle.
    “Stay angry, little Meg,” Mrs Whatsit whispered. “You will need all your anger now.”

  4. #479
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Texsahara View Post
    If parental participation has to be required for kids to succeed, it's a losing battle.
    "Has to be?" No. But, without question, the student's probability of success increases with educationally-engaged parents. Yes, our schools need to be able to reach the kids with disinterested (or economically challenged or linguistically challenged or whatever) parents. But, any techniques that will do so will also reach the engaged students.

    So, unless you're suggesting we give the advantaged kids a book and tell them to sit in the corner and deal with their own learning while the teacher works with the disadvantaged kids, it WILL be a losing battle.

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
    - President Barack Obama

  5. #480

    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    "Has to be?" No. But, without question, the student's probability of success increases with educationally-engaged parents. Yes, our schools need to be able to reach the kids with disinterested (or economically challenged or linguistically challenged or whatever) parents. But, any techniques that will do so will also reach the engaged students.

    So, unless you're suggesting we give the advantaged kids a book and tell them to sit in the corner and deal with their own learning while the teacher works with the disadvantaged kids, it WILL be a losing battle.
    I'm suggesting they find a way to help kids that don't have parental participation. That can be with mentorship programs, recruiting other parents to help, adequate training and encouragement for parents, programs to help parents directly address their specific needs and make it easier for them to be involved, etc.

    One good starting place would be get rid of homework prior to high school. It's been proven to not be of any benefit and there are even doubts about whether it helps high school kids. Let parental participation be a positive factor in their lives and not just the expectation that they will force their kids to complete their second shift of the day.

    Defining parental involvement is also tricky. I'm not as convinced that the actual hands on involvement in their work or classroom is what matters as much is a positive environment at home not only towards education but life in general.

    While I don't agree with all of this, I think they make some good points. Parental Involvement Is Overrated
    “Stay angry, little Meg,” Mrs Whatsit whispered. “You will need all your anger now.”

  6. #481
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Some of this is cultural. A generation or two ago, most public school teachers were women, when women weren't routinely working outside the home. So, their income was only supplementing the income of the "bread winner." Those days are gone. Long gone. But teacher pay has not recovered. That's inexcusable.

    A generation or two ago, most public schools had a principal, maybe an assistant, and a counselor or two. Today, the administrative staff at schools, and certainly at the central administration of a school district, is vastly larger. So, teachers get a smaller slice of the pie, meaning any increases over the last few decades have been siphoned away from teachers, and gone to the administrative burden.

    Finally, there's that pesky summer vacation thing. We need to stop penalizing educators because the kids aren't in school 12 months of the year. Most teachers I know more than make up for that with the hours they put in during the school year. Sure, there are some who head for the door at 3:00 every afternoon. There are far more who are still there at 4:00, and then bring a briefcase full of papers home to grade.

    Unless and until we treat educators as professionals (and that includes pay), we're not going to attract the right people into education.
    They may or may not have been teaching for a supplemental income - single women taught, too. But with very few exceptions, women had the choice to be secretaries, nurses, or teachers. Salaries could be kept ar ificially low because there was a huge and overqualified labor pool with few alternatives.

  7. #482
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    But with very few exceptions, women had the choice to be secretaries, nurses, or teachers. Salaries could be kept ar ificially low because there was a huge and overqualified labor pool with few alternatives.
    I think that was my point. What may have made a little sense (even if grossly unfair) a few generations ago, no longer applies. But, sure enough, secretaries, nurses, and teachers remain significantly underpaid.

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
    - President Barack Obama

  8. #483

    Re: Education

    Parental involvement is soooooo important for development
    Baseball games are not won with a formula. If you can hit, they will find a place for you

  9. #484

    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by fightingirish595 View Post
    Parental involvement is soooooo important for development
    Sure. I'm just questioning how to define it. What actually matters vs a general statement. A parent can be very involved in their child's education and well being without participating in the PTA or bake sales or forcing them to do homework.
    “Stay angry, little Meg,” Mrs Whatsit whispered. “You will need all your anger now.”

  10. #485
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Texsahara View Post
    Defining parental involvement is also tricky. I'm not as convinced that the actual hands on involvement in their work or classroom is what matters as much is a positive environment at home not only towards education but life in general.
    Strongly, strongly agree. Helicopter parents in the classroom can be counter-productive. That's not what I mean when I say 'parental involvement.' I mean parents who read to their pre-schoolers, who take an active interest in what their kids are learning in school, who discuss current events and educational issues, who turn the TV off, put down the cell phone, and read. Basically, I define 'parental involvement' as teaching values to your kids, with those values embracing being well-read, articulate, and appreciative of learning.

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
    - President Barack Obama

  11. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Strongly, strongly agree. Helicopter parents in the classroom can be counter-productive. That's not what I mean when I say 'parental involvement.' I mean parents who read to their pre-schoolers, who take an active interest in what their kids are learning in school, who discuss current events and educational issues, who turn the TV off, put down the cell phone, and read. Basically, I define 'parental involvement' as teaching values to your kids, with those values embracing being well-read, articulate, and appreciative of learning.
    :thumbsup:

    Of course everyone can't/won't so there still needs to be effort to overcome the disadvantage. We see a lot of Band-Aids. In a lot of places it's time to blow it up and start over.

  12. #487

    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    And those kids will be more successful, whether in a public school, a private school, or a charter. We get so caught up in rating the effectiveness of individual schools, or individual teachers, that we lose sight of this difficult-to-measure but oh-so-important variable. A kid with involved, participating parents is going to do better in school, even with a marginal teacher, than a kid with the best teacher in the world, if his parents are apathetic about his education.
    Yep. I agree with all of this. Heck, I see a lot of this every day. We do what we can to reach all students, but some are just starting from an unfair starting point that it can make it difficult. Some if these kids are just surviving their childhoods, and school (understandably) isnt the top of their priority.

    My whole point of bringing this up, however, was just to give an example of why comparing charter schools and public schools was not an even comparison.

  13. #488

    Re: Education

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...7bfc17b66d?z6n
    Bonnie Peltier, a 47-year-old stay-at-home mother of two in Leland, North Carolina, was thrilled when her 4-year-old daughter got into Charter Day School, a publicly funded K-8 with a good reputation in her conservative small town. But she was taken aback at school orientation in the summer of 2015, when she learned that the charter school’s dress code prohibits girls from wearing pants or shorts as part of its standard uniform.
    To understand the school’s reasoning, Peltier emailed its founder, Baker Mitchell, a conservative entrepreneur who owns a company that manages four public charter schools in the state.

    In his reply, Mitchell said the dress code was about “chivalry” and claimed it helped instill traditional values, making for better manners and better-behaved children. A fairly standard response, at the outset. But then, he suggested that the dress code could help prevent school shootings.
    With the help of the American Civil Liberties Union, Peltier and two other mothers sued Charter Day in federal court in 2016 on behalf of their daughters. Their aim is simply to give girls at the school the option to wear pants or shorts. They argue that the restrictive dress code discriminates against girls and violates Title IX, the part of the federal civil rights law that covers public education.

    “They get public money. And they need to abide by the law,” said Erika Booth, a 47-year-old paramedic who joined the suit on behalf of her daughter. “They need to go ahead and treat girls equally. That’s it. That’s the bottom line.”

    Dress codes in the U.S. have been increasingly subject to controversy for various reasons, but HuffPost only recently learned about the Charter Day case, which hasn’t garnered much national attention. A ruling could come soon on the school’s motion for summary judgment.
    Mitchell and the school both emphasized that the dress code encourages a culture of respect, but Peltier and Booth say the unequal policy is actually disrespectful to girls, who are treated as the fairer, and thus less capable, sex ― outdated tropes that perpetuate sexism.
    smdh. how can something so blatantly sexist drag out for three years?
    “Stay angry, little Meg,” Mrs Whatsit whispered. “You will need all your anger now.”

  14. #489
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Texsahara View Post
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...7bfc17b66d?z6n
    smdh. how can something so blatantly sexist drag out for three years?
    HuffPo expresses shock over his second answer, preventing school shootings. But his first answer, "chivalry," is bad enough.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

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