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Thread: Education

  1. #176
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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan View Post
    Yeah they've never closed my wife's school for heat but man is she miserable in September, May and June. Then she tells me about kids wearing hoodies in that heat. As a one time smelly 9th grade boy, she should get a stipend for teaching smelly 9th grade boys.




    I'm guessing most of your buildings are pretty new. My wife's school was built in the 60s and now there's a tea party group in her town that wants to just demolish the school and not rebuild, but pay to send the kids to a neighboring town.
    Typical tea party "logic" save a dollar now costing far more later.
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  2. #177
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    A voucher system helps kids.
    Evidence?
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  3. #178
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    OK. So perhaps the voucher system will allow Middle Class families who can't afford that tuition to send their kids to such schools, as well.


    A voucher system helps kids. Yes, there will me a miniscule sting for those remaining in public schools, but that will be almost unmeasureable. So, in order to avoid that tiny disadvantage to public schools, you're willing to take the opportunity away for Middle Class kids to attend better schools?


    How about the school choice system I mentioned earlier? Guess what happens? Kids districted to failing schools are the ones who request permits into the better performing ones. Because the families are responsible for transportation, is this also unfair to poorer families?


    I still don't understand why it's unacceptable to support families that are trying to improve their kids' education. I can pick my doctor, dentist, attorney, accountant, plumber, banker. But I can't pick my kids' teachers.

    You don't choose your policemen, firemen, water/health/building inspectors, garbage collectors, letter carriers...I could keep going.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
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  4. #179
    Let's go Rangers! RhodyYanksFan's Avatar
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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Evidence?
    I'm sure there are plenty of studies funded by the DeVos family that will have the evidence you seek.

  5. #180
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Texsahara View Post
    I didn't have air conditioning in school growing up (in the South!) and when the AC went out in my kids school in NY they canceled class for 2 days. I was livid. Back in my day....
    And even when it was 90 degrees and humid, you still had to walk through two feet of snow to get to school.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
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  6. #181
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan View Post
    Yeah they've never closed my wife's school for heat but man is she miserable in September, May and June. Then she tells me about kids wearing hoodies in that heat. As a one time smelly 9th grade boy, she should get a stipend for teaching smelly 9th grade boys.

    Then there are the smelly 9th grade boys who decide the answer is to drench themselves with body spray. The original funk is still there, but now it's funk + body spray.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  7. #182

    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    You don't choose your policemen, firemen, water/health/building inspectors, garbage collectors, letter carriers...I could keep going.
    I demand privatized firefighters!

    (I actually do choose my garbage collector. I live in an unincorporated area and have to pay. There are three or four companies to choose from.)

  8. #183

    Re: Education

    What the public isnít told about high-performing charter schools in Arizona

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.7fa8c2f069cd

    The article is long but full of great information, so I'm not going to post excerpts. BASIS Arizona schools are famous for ranking as the best high schools in the country, but there's a lot more to the story. There are HUGE problems with charters in general, and basis in particular. The article is well worth the read.

  9. #184
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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by jlw1980 View Post
    What the public isn’t told about high-performing charter schools in Arizona

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.7fa8c2f069cd

    The article is long but full of great information, so I'm not going to post excerpts. BASIS Arizona schools are famous for ranking as the best high schools in the country, but there's a lot more to the story. There are HUGE problems with charters in general, and basis in particular. The article is well worth the read.
    Hardly surprising results. I'm sure Maynerd approves of the results in the name of "school choice".

    I mean shouldn't boot strappy affluent Whites and Asians be able to self segregate themselves from Latinos on the tax payers dime?
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  10. #185

    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Hardly surprising results. I'm sure Maynerd approves of the results in the name of "school choice".

    I mean shouldn't boot strappy affluent Whites and Asians be able to self segregate themselves from Latinos on the tax payers dime?
    I was absolutely shocked at the disproportionate amount of white and Asian people, though I probably shouldn't have been. I mean, Asians were represented at over TEN TIMES their numbers in the Arizona population - 3% of AZ residents vs 32% of BASIS students. Of course Latinos and blacks were underrepresented. Latinos were vastly underrepresented.

    The racism is just one of many disturbing factors involved with these schools. There's some serious classism and mismanagement of funds, as well as lack of accountability, as well. The ability to select and keep only the best students, instead of having to take kids of all abilities and behaviors, is outrageous.

    I really hope this enlightens some folks on this issue.

  11. #186
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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by jlw1980 View Post
    I really hope this enlightens some folks on this issue.
    Don't hold your breath. Most will see "Top High School" and say how do I get my kid there.
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  12. #187
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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by jlw1980 View Post
    I was absolutely shocked at the disproportionate amount of white and Asian people.......

    I really hope this enlightens some folks on this issue.
    I still advocate for school choice, but vast departures from the demographics of the overall population are unacceptable. There need to be certain controls put in place if school tax dollars are going to follow the kids.


    There are a ton of charter schools in Colorado. They all seem to have similar demographics as.....the rest of Colorado. What you're describing in Arizona is different. We also have choice here within the public school system, on a space available basis. But that, too, has not led to any racial disparities.


    I firmly believe we should allow kids in a terrible school district to pursue a better education. But, the means of doing so has to be applied fairly, equitably, and color-blind-edly.


    So, I still strongly support school choice, but I'm willing to accept certain non-discriminatory requirements to be put in place before the money follows the student.

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
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  13. #188
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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post

    I firmly believe we should allow kids in a terrible school district to pursue a better education. But, the means of doing so has to be applied fairly, equitably, and color-blind-edly.

    So, I still strongly support school choice, but I'm willing to accept certain non-discriminatory requirements to be put in place before the money follows the student.
    These are things that might get me to support more government funded school choice but it sounds very un-libertarian.

    Though I still think public money should be used for public education and private money should be used for those who want private education.
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  14. #189
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Though I still think public money should be used for public education and private money should be used for those who want private education.
    And, while I support money flowing to a charter school or a private school, I could live without it PROVIDED a kid could opt from his neighborhood school to an alternative public school, as we do in Colorado.


    I just refuse to accept a kid has to go to an underperforming school simply because that's where his local school board drew the school boundary lines.

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
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  15. #190
    Released Outright awy's Avatar
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    Re: Education

    the basic reason to care about self segregation is the role it has in perpetuating and producing social and economic problems.

    role in social problems, well known by now, i'd hope.

    economically, access to social networks and peer resources is fundamental to life outcome. lots of studies confirm this, and the effect is particularly strong early on, such that deficiency in early life access to productive peer relations can be a permanent depression for life.

    no longer tying up kids to geographic school zones might help with the geographic segregation, but it would worsen social stratification, inequities and related biases, explicit and implicit.

  16. #191

    Re: Education

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b050bdca612ad2

    U.S. Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos was greeted by rounds of boos on Wednesday as students turned their backs to her during a graduation ceremony where she was the keynote speaker.

    DeVos was selected to speak at Bethune-Cookman University in Daytona Beach, Florida, a historically black university, despite strong opposition by many students and community members to her presence.

  17. #192

    Re: Education

    Good on them.

  18. #193
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by jlw1980 View Post
    Good on them.
    Disagree.


    Like her or not, DeVos is a Cabinet Secretary. It doesn't speak highly of Bethune-Cookman that its brand new graduates think it's appropriate to boo or turn their backs on someone if you don't like their position on issues.


    Again, you don't have to respect someone; that needs to be earned. But, open disrespect is uncalled-for. There's a difference.....and that difference is what makes us a civilized society. Or, at least, it used to.

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
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  19. #194
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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Disagree.


    Like her or not, DeVos is a Cabinet Secretary. It doesn't speak highly of Bethune-Cookman that its brand new graduates think it's appropriate to boo or turn their backs on someone if you don't like their position on issues.


    Again, you don't have to respect someone; that needs to be earned. But, open disrespect is uncalled-for. There's a difference.....and that difference is what makes us a civilized society. Or, at least, it used to.
    Great be silent while she ruins our education system. Glad our forefathers disagreed with this thinking.
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  20. #195
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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Disagree.


    Like her or not, DeVos is a Cabinet Secretary. It doesn't speak highly of Bethune-Cookman that its brand new graduates think it's appropriate to boo or turn their backs on someone if you don't like their position on issues.


    Again, you don't have to respect someone; that needs to be earned. But, open disrespect is uncalled-for. There's a difference.....and that difference is what makes us a civilized society. Or, at least, it used to.
    Graduating college is a big deal for most. Despite big objections to her coming from a large part of the student body the administration invited her anyway. I see no problem with the students voicing their displeasure.
    Baseball is life;
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  21. #196
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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Graduating college is a big deal for most. Despite big objections to her coming from a large part of the student body the administration invited her anyway. I see no problem with the students voicing their displeasure.
    Agreed. These students paid a lot of money to reach this day. This is a day for them, NOT the overpaid higher ups in the school.
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  22. #197
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    Great be silent while she ruins our education system. Glad our forefathers disagreed with this thinking.
    I didn't suggest silence; I suggested a modicum of civility during the speech. One would think an educated person could come up with a way to voice their displeasure with the University's choice of speakers in a more learned manner than booing or turning their backs.


    One could also argue that educators are ruining our education system by insisting we continue to do things the same way that's bringing us failing results. But, let's default to booing the appointee who might have newer ideas because Trump appointed her.


    I'm by no means saying DeVos was a good choice. I'm just saying the status quo isn't working, and putting someone in charge of the Department of Education who is going to give us more of the same is ineffective. What exactly has she done that is ruining our education system? What has she done that warrants blatant disrespect? How should a college graduate react to those things? I'd hope the answer to the third question is something more profound than turning your back on her while she speaks.

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
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  23. #198
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    Re: Education

    I graduated in 1991 from Sacred Heart University in Fairfield, CT. Same year cross town Fairfield University got Billy Joel, we got some exec from some random Wall Street corporation I have long forgotten and also forgot what he said. I wanted to skip my own commencement and go to Fairfield's. Would have gotten and remembered far more.
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  24. #199
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Disagree.


    Like her or not, DeVos is a Cabinet Secretary. It doesn't speak highly of Bethune-Cookman that its brand new graduates think it's appropriate to boo or turn their backs on someone if you don't like their position on issues.


    Again, you don't have to respect someone; that needs to be earned. But, open disrespect is uncalled-for. There's a difference.....and that difference is what makes us a civilized society. Or, at least, it used to.

    I think that's a totally appropriate reaction. It's not violence, it's not harassment, it's not...really, much of anything. The fact that she's a Cabinet Secretary doesn't earn her any particular respect. In fact, because she has a policy-level position, I think it's more important and more appropriate for the students to make their opposition to her positions very clear, forcefully but without violence and without preventing her from speaking.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  25. #200
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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I think that's a totally appropriate reaction. It's not violence, it's not harassment, it's not...really, much of anything. The fact that she's a Cabinet Secretary doesn't earn her any particular respect. In fact, because she has a policy-level position, I think it's more important and more appropriate for the students to make their opposition to her positions very clear, forcefully but without violence and without preventing her from speaking.
    I think the school disrespected the graduates for shoving this person on them. So agreed, Totally appropriate response. Now anything physical, out of line.
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