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  1. #1
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    Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    These two have now had some good AA/AAA experience and I think both can be stretched out to about 150IP this season. They're both lefties, they're both 24, & they both have + changeups as part of their arsenal.

    It would be fun if Girardi announces he wants to add a lefty to the rotation and then lets these two battle for the spot in ST and throughout the season. Perhaps the loser becomes the 2nd lefty & long reliever in the bullpen. Isn't it time to see if both these guys should have spots on the 40-man roster?
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  2. #2
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    40 man roster is tight right now. Both these guys should be invited to ST, and get a look, but don't add them to the 40 man until you have to.


    If they pitch 'lights-out" in ST, and the others struggle, then by all means, add them and give them a shot. Otherwise, hold off.

  3. #3

    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    These two have now had some good AA/AAA experience and I think both can be stretched out to about 150IP this season. They're both lefties, they're both 24, & they both have + changeups as part of their arsenal.

    It would be fun if Girardi announces he wants to add a lefty to the rotation and then lets these two battle for the spot in ST and throughout the season. Perhaps the loser becomes the 2nd lefty & long reliever in the bullpen. Isn't it time to see if both these guys should have spots on the 40-man roster?
    Enns is 25 and will be 26 in May. His time is now.

    I'd like to see the 2 of them in the 4-5 spots. With the. Depth of prospects behind them, there are others to turn to in June/July if either/both of them falter. That's what 2017 should be about. Go with the kids, find out who can get it done and work with the depth in the organization to sort out who's ready and who isn't.

  4. #4
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by mbn007 View Post
    40 man roster is tight right now. Both these guys should be invited to ST, and get a look, but don't add them to the 40 man until you have to.
    Enns is already on the 40-man. Montgomery might have a higher ceiling than a couple of other pitchers on the 40-man - guys like Richard Bleier, Giovanny Gallegos, Johnny Barbato & Yefrey Ramirez.

    My main interest in both these guys is they're 24 yr old lefties, they both throw changeups, and they both pitched about 130IP in 2016. Severino & Cessa both threw around 150IP. I don't think Mitchell & Green can do more than spot start every now and then, or work middle/long relief.

    I think it would be good competition in Tampa for Enns vs. Montgomery for the 5th spot and Severino vs. Cessa for the 4th spot, unless they trade for a starter between now & spring.
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  5. #5

    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    Enns is already on the 40-man. Montgomery might have a higher ceiling than a couple of other pitchers on the 40-man - guys like Richard Bleier, Giovanny Gallegos, Johnny Barbato & Yefrey Ramirez.

    My main interest in both these guys is they're 24 yr old lefties, they both throw changeups, and they both pitched about 130IP in 2016. Severino & Cessa both threw around 150IP. I don't think Mitchell & Green can do more than spot start every now and then, or work middle/long relief.

    I think it would be good competition in Tampa for Enns vs. Montgomery for the 5th spot and Severino vs. Cessa for the 4th spot, unless they trade for a starter between now & spring.
    Enns is 25, going on 26 in May.

    Severino needs a few months back in Scranton. Green was sensational in 16 starts at S/WB last season. I don't know what was going on down in Scranton last summer but a bunch of guys has career years there. The Yankees may want to consider bringing their pitching coach, Tommy Phelps, to the Bronx.

  6. #6

    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Montgomery has a higher ceiling. It should be him.

  7. #7

    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    I can see Montgomery fitting into the rotation almost immediately, and Enns crashing and burning almost immediately.

  8. #8
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Montgomery was a 3 year weekend starter for a very good South Carolina program and has been terrific in each of his 2 full seasons in the minors.

    All in with the playoffs he was at 152 ip last year. I'd like to see him get the first crack at the 5th spot but i'm not sure how likely that is.

    While Enns is older he has limited starting experience. He was a multi-inning reliever in college and was a reliever his first few minor league seasons and then missed extended time in both 2014 and 2015 with Tommy John.

    I think Enns is more along the lines of spot starter/long reliever.

  9. #9

    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by BomberBrian View Post

    While Enns is older he has limited starting experience. He was a multi-inning reliever in college and was a reliever his first few minor league seasons and then missed extended time in both 2014 and 2015 with Tommy John.

    I think Enns is more along the lines of spot starter/long reliever.
    Come on, this isn't brain surgery. Johan Santana was a reliever before the Twins turned him into a starter. Same with Ron Guidry who hadn't had a single start at AAA before the Yankees brought him up.

    Enns has had 34 starts over the past 2 seasons and pitched 135 innings last year. There's no reason why he can't continue as a starter. If he isn't successful, then move him to the pen. He was sensational last year. Why look a gift horse in the mouth? Give him a shot already and let the results speak for themselves.

  10. #10
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Come on, this isn't brain surgery. Johan Santana was a reliever before the Twins turned him into a starter. Same with Ron Guidry who hadn't had a single start at AAA before the Yankees brought him up.

    Enns has had 34 starts over the past 2 seasons and pitched 135 innings last year. There's no reason why he can't continue as a starter. If he isn't successful, then move him to the pen. He was sensational last year. Why look a gift horse in the mouth? Give him a shot already and let the results speak for themselves.
    Not exactly sure what your point on Guidry is - true, he had not been a starter at Syracuse when he came up to the Yankees in 1975 and made exactly one start in ten appearances at the ML level. In 1976, he did not make a single start between AAA and MLB.

    It was not until 1977 that Guidry first became a starter - he had two years back and forth between AAA and the ML as a reliever. Even in 1977, he did not even start a game until his sixth appearance, then relieved the next game before finally becoming a starter.

    I have no doubt that Enns can potentially become a starter, but trying to cite Guidry as an example of someone who came up from AAA having not started and succeeded as a starter at the ML level, at least without mentioning that it too two plus seasons before it happens, appears a stretch at the best.
    Forgive me for taking the Contrarian view

  11. #11

    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by longtimeyankeefan View Post
    Not exactly sure what your point on Guidry is - true, he had not been a starter at Syracuse when he came up to the Yankees in 1975 and made exactly one start in ten appearances at the ML level. In 1976, he did not make a single start between AAA and MLB.

    It was not until 1977 that Guidry first became a starter - he had two years back and forth between AAA and the ML as a reliever. Even in 1977, he did not even start a game until his sixth appearance, then relieved the next game before finally becoming a starter.

    I have no doubt that Enns can potentially become a starter, but trying to cite Guidry as an example of someone who came up from AAA having not started and succeeded as a starter at the ML level, at least without mentioning that it too two plus seasons before it happens, appears a stretch at the best.
    I don't know what you think is a stretch. There is never a perfect parallel. All I'm doing is citing 2 examples - Santana and Guidry - of pitchers who succeeded at the major league level as a starter with limited precious experience as a starting pitcher. My purpose is to refute Bomber Brian's assertion that Enns can't succeed because he has limited experience as a starter.

    As for the Guidry case, it did not take him 2 years to make it as a starter. The Yankees took a look at him as a reliever late in the season in 1975 and again late in 1976. In neither season did they try him as a starter. When they put him into the rotation in 1977, he was an immediate success as a starter. The point wasn't to suggest that Enns' progression would parallel Guidry's in any way. It was simply to point out that there are examples of pitchers who did not prepare for long as a starter but who succeeded anyway. In Guidry's case, he had a total of 9 starts in the 3 full seasons before he made the conversion to the rotation without pitching more than 78 innings in any single season. Enns has had 34 starts in the last 2 years alone and pitched 135 innings last year.

  12. #12
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Should be mentioned however that the force multiplier that made Guidry a great MLB starter was Sparky Lyle teaching him the slider during his look-sees in 1975-76. In Syracuse he was a one-pitch reliever.

    That said, I have no objection to letting Enns try out as a starter, his performance last year earned it I think. Just saying they're not analogous situations unless someone is teaching Enns a new pitch.

  13. #13

    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by hellonewman View Post
    Should be mentioned however that the force multiplier that made Guidry a great MLB starter was Sparky Lyle teaching him the slider during his look-sees in 1975-76. In Syracuse he was a one-pitch reliever.

    That said, I have no objection to letting Enns try out as a starter, his performance last year earned it I think. Just saying they're not analogous situations unless someone is teaching Enns a new pitch.
    Good point. The only reason for bringing up Guidry is isolated to whether he needed years of experience and conditioning as a starter before undertaking that role in the major leagues. He didn't.
    Last edited by Bill Marsh; 12-29-16 at 12:30 PM.

  14. #14
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    I'm getting more interested in seeing Jordan Montgomery pitch this spring, and hope he can indeed be a sleeper to win a rotation spot. It'll be refreshing to see another lefty and someone that will throw a changeup more than 10% of the time.
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  15. #15
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by BomberBrian View Post
    Montgomery was a 3 year weekend starter for a very good South Carolina program and has been terrific in each of his 2 full seasons in the minors.

    All in with the playoffs he was at 152 ip last year. I'd like to see him get the first crack at the 5th spot but i'm not sure how likely that is.

    While Enns is older he has limited starting experience. He was a multi-inning reliever in college and was a reliever his first few minor league seasons and then missed extended time in both 2014 and 2015 with Tommy John.

    I think Enns is more along the lines of spot starter/long reliever.
    I'm excited to see where Montgomery is sitting in Spring Training.

  16. #16
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    I really wouldn't get my hopes up too much about these guys. Both have pretty low ceilings IMO. Not sure why people value them over Cessa or Green, who are the same age but have better stuff. If we can make one of the four guys a quality #4 starter, I'd be satisfied. Anything else is gravy, but I don't consider any to be in the top 5 of our young starting group (all are behind Kap, Acevedo, Severino, Sheffield, Adams, Abreu, Tate, etc.).

  17. #17
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by DaBliz View Post
    I really wouldn't get my hopes up too much about these guys. Both have pretty low ceilings IMO. Not sure why people value them over Cessa or Green, who are the same age but have better stuff. If we can make one of the four guys a quality #4 starter, I'd be satisfied. Anything else is gravy, but I don't consider any to be in the top 5 of our young starting group (all are behind Kap, Acevedo, Severino, Sheffield, Adams, Abreu, Tate, etc.).

    I disagree here in regards to Montgomery. I'd certainly take him over Tate and possibly Abreu. He has shown a remarkable uptick in velocity the last year which has changed the way he's pitching. The results followed and there wasn't a more dominating starter in AAA towards the end of the season. And for his 23 year old season, he's not old for where he is in his progression. Like most pitching prospects, he definitely has bust potential, but I do think he has a fairly high ceiling and could easily see him being a #3 within a few years.

    And as far as Dietrich Enns, I'll be honest I don't know a ton about his stuff and his peripherals don't jump off the page. But in 193.2 IP over the last two seasons in the minors, he has a 1.39 ERA. That is the best in all of baseball by a huge margin (min 165 IP). I don't expect him to be a top of the rotation starter, but damn I'd be lying if I said I wasn't intrigued.

    Fun Fact: #2 on that list of lowest MiLB of all pitchers (min 165 IP) is 1.81 ERA by another NYY pitcher. None other than Nestor Cortes.

  18. #18

    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob035 View Post

    And as far as Dietrich Enns, I'll be honest I don't know a ton about his stuff and his peripherals don't jump off the page. But in 193.2 IP over the last two seasons in the minors, he has a 1.39 ERA. That is the best in all of baseball by a huge margin (min 165 IP). I don't expect him to be a top of the rotation starter, but damn I'd be lying if I said I wasn't intrigued.
    Don't worry. They'll cut him because they don't like his peripherals, or his velocity, or some other such nonsense. Then he'll go some place else and become a star. Then everyone will be begging to trade for him. Just like Quintana. Deja vu all over again.

  19. #19
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Don't worry. They'll cut him because they don't like his peripherals, or his velocity, or some other such nonsense. Then he'll go some place else and become a star. Then everyone will be begging to trade for him. Just like Quintana. Deja vu all over again.
    You are posting like you are a graduate of the ClownPickle School of Pessimistic Outlook on all things Yankees.

  20. #20

    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by mbn007 View Post
    You are posting like you are a graduate of the ClownPickle School of Pessimistic Outlook on all things Yankees.
    Actually I'm sacrcastically posting in response to all those on this board who repeatedly disparage Enns because of his peripherals and velocity. The Yankees have put him on their 40 man roster, so I'm confident. That they value him enough to give him a legitimate shot.

  21. #21
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by DaBliz View Post
    Not sure why people value them over Cessa or Green, who are the same age but have better stuff. If we can make one of the four guys a quality #4 starter, I'd be satisfied. Anything else is gravy, but I don't consider any to be in the top 5 of our young starting group (all are behind Kap, Acevedo, Severino, Sheffield, Adams, Abreu, Tate, etc.).
    It's not about value it's about need.The fact is if the Yanks don't acquire another starter then they need to fill at least 2 spots in 2017. IMO one of those spots should go to a lefty. Also, I really want to see a starter that throws a changeup regularly. Lastly, none of the prospects you mentioned are ready to throw 150 innings other than these 2 guys along with Severino, Cessa, and Green, who will probably be limited because of last season's arm problems.
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  22. #22
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Actually I'm sacrcastically posting in response to all those on this board who repeatedly disparage Enns because of his peripherals and velocity. The Yankees have put him on their 40 man roster, so I'm confident. That they value him enough to give him a legitimate shot.
    You are so very correct about that 40 man roster issue. The Yankees could have protected Webb instead. Tall lefty with solid stats the past couple of seasons, but no room on the 40 man for him. Enns, by being protected, means the Yankees must see enough in him to consider him at least a possibility for the rotation in the future.

  23. #23
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by mbn007 View Post
    You are so very correct about that 40 man roster issue. The Yankees could have protected Webb instead. Tall lefty with solid stats the past couple of seasons, but no room on the 40 man for him. Enns, by being protected, means the Yankees must see enough in him to consider him at least a possibility for the rotation in the future.
    I think the Yanks are going to have to make wiser use of the 40 man roster. Didn't they add about 12 prospects from the Miller/Chapman/Beltran/Nova deals? They're probably realizing they're not going to be able to keep everyone like they've done in the past. Even the prospects with lower ceilings will become more valuable to other teams who don't have a strong farm. I guess this means they'll need to be making quicker decisions on who to keep, and sometimes they'll be wrong.

    IMO they'll need to make these types of decisions when a rare opportunity to acquire a young cost controlled proven player or pitcher presents itself via trade.

    To your point about leaving Webb unprotected in the Rule 5 draft, maybe they believe Webb won't be able to stick on a 25-man roster for any MLB team this season & will be able to get him back?
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  24. #24

    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post

    To your point about leaving Webb unprotected in the Rule 5 draft, maybe they believe Webb won't be able to stick on a 25-man roster for any MLB team this season & will be able to get him back?
    That might be true in Pittsburgh's case- they already have 4 lefties in their major league bullpen.
    Don't tease me, you know what I do for a living.

  25. #25

    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    I think the Yanks are going to have to make wiser use of the 40 man roster. Didn't they add about 12 prospects from the Miller/Chapman/Beltran/Nova deals? They're probably realizing they're not going to be able to keep everyone like they've done in the past. Even the prospects with lower ceilings will become more valuable to other teams who don't have a strong farm. I guess this means they'll need to be making quicker decisions on who to keep, and sometimes they'll be wrong.

    IMO they'll need to make these types of decisions when a rare opportunity to acquire a young cost controlled proven player or pitcher presents itself via trade.

    To your point about leaving Webb unprotected in the Rule 5 draft, maybe they believe Webb won't be able to stick on a 25-man roster for any MLB team this season & will be able to get him back?
    Maybe the solution is to give them all such big contracts that no one else can afford them.

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