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  1. #26
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    I've seen both pitch a ton. Jordan is a big kid but it's been posted throws 92-94? I've never seen that. What I have seen is a guy who hides the ball real well (over the top and down plane) and can locate an array of pitches. As I have said he never blows you away but is one of those guys where you look at the scoreboard and he's in the 6th and only given up a few hits. My concern is how does that 87-88 FB play at the next level? He has earned the chance to show us. Enns Is a smaller guy who throws harder I've seen him 94-95 at times but is more 89-91 I would say. Enns throws with more effort and at times can leave the ball up . That scares me a little. It's hard a call who will be better but I could see Enns with a future in the pen somewhere as if Jordan isn't starting he may not. Both have earned the opportunity though. Should be fun!!

  2. #27

    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankyfan View Post
    I've seen both pitch a ton. Jordan is a big kid but it's been posted throws 92-94? I've never seen that. What I have seen is a guy who hides the ball real well (over the top and down plane) and can locate an array of pitches. As I have said he never blows you away but is one of those guys where you look at the scoreboard and he's in the 6th and only given up a few hits. My concern is how does that 87-88 FB play at the next level? He has earned the chance to show us. Enns Is a smaller guy who throws harder I've seen him 94-95 at times but is more 89-91 I would say. Enns throws with more effort and at times can leave the ball up . That scares me a little. It's hard a call who will be better but I could see Enns with a future in the pen somewhere as if Jordan isn't starting he may not. Both have earned the opportunity though. Should be fun!!
    Thanks. Much appreciated.

  3. #28

    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Montgomery's velocity:

    "MLB Pipeline credits his increased fastball velocity as a reason for Montgomery’s late season surge — as it jumped from 88-92 mph to 92-94 mph after his promotion to the RailRaiders."

    http://yanksgoyard.com/2016/11/13/ya...an-montgomery/

  4. #29

    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    A different report where the reported facts aren't the same, but everyone seems to agree his velocity was decidedly up last year:

    "Coming into this past season, Montgomery was reaping the benefits of a change in his mechanics. The adjustment helped him add velocity so instead of the 88-92 MPH fastball he had before the draft he was throwing 91-94 MPH with regular consistency at the end of 2015. At the beginning of the 2016 season, he was reaching as high as 96 MPH on the radar gun. After his promotion to the RailRiders he saw a decrease in velocity, but that could be from it being later in the season."

    http://pinstripedprospects.com/pinst...ntgomery-18605

  5. #30
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Thanks for digging those up, but those two reports seem to contradict each other.

    it jumped from 88-92 mph to 92-94 mph after his promotion to the RailRaiders."
    After his promotion to the RailRiders he saw a decrease in velocity
    I just don't know what to believe anymore!

  6. #31

    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    I addressed that in the second post, but the bottom line is that every report (and there are plenty of others if you google "Jordan Montgomery velocity") has his velocity decidedly up since 2015.

  7. #32

    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    From Sickels end-of-2016 write-up:

    Jordan Montgomery, LHP, Grade B-/C+: Age 23, fourth round pick in 2014 from University of South Carolina; posted 2.13 ERA in 139 innings between Double-A and Triple-A with 134/45 K/BB; big 6-6, 225 pound southpaw; finesse pitcher in college but fastball has bumped up as a pro, now at 90-93; also has change-up, curveball, cutter, plus a deceptive arm angle helps his pitches play up; sharp control, potential fourth starter and ready for a trial soon. ETA 2017.
    As jon abbey said, published accounts may vary, but the common theme is that his velocity is decidedly up. Going from 88-92 to 90-93 or 91-94 isn't trivial. Now we're talking about a different ceiling. Especially if the pitcher can maintain or improve command of his repertoire.

  8. #33
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo_T View Post
    ...the common theme is that his velocity is decidedly up. Going from 88-92 to 90-93 or 91-94 isn't trivial. Now we're talking about a different ceiling. Especially if the pitcher can maintain or improve command of his repertoire.
    https://elitesportsny.com/2016/08/19...promising-arm/

    Within two months of his first full season, Montgomery landed a spot in high-Class A and even started pumping fastballs much harder as his career progressed into Double-A.

    According to MLB Pipeline, Montgomery’s fastball was effective at 88-92 MPH in 2015 because it ran away and sunk with impeccable command as well.

    Then, in the same year, the velocity jumped to 91-94 with that same dip by August, giving it much needed detachment from his best pitch, a fading changeup. His arsenal also features an effective curveball and cut fastball.

    According to Pipeline, he is the most major league ready out of any pitcher among the top-20 with little to no injury concern (like Kaprielian has). Jordan, has hurled 120.2 innings in 2016 which is just under his career-high 134.1 innings in 2014, his first pro year so the chances makes it to “the show” at the same time his readiness says it will (2017) seems likely.
    Last edited by sjb23; 01-01-17 at 10:37 AM.
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  9. #34
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    I have read these reports a bunch and as I have said on the minors thread as have others who has seen him pitch live, I've yet to witness this jump in Velo. I wish I had but if you read my game reviews over the past year from AA And AAA starts no such jumps was witnessed on my part. BTW the question has come up about park guns and I've seen him at other parks other than Arm and Hammer and PNC. Maybe this velo jump occurred in Tampa?

  10. #35
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankyfan View Post
    I have read these reports a bunch and as I have said on the minors thread as have others who has seen him pitch live, I've yet to witness this jump in Velo. I wish I had but if you read my game reviews over the past year from AA And AAA starts no such jumps was witnessed on my part. BTW the question has come up about park guns and I've seen him at other parks other than Arm and Hammer and PNC. Maybe this velo jump occurred in Tampa?
    It's ok if his fastball is 89-92, as long as it's cutting & as long the changeup is about 10MPH slower & it looks like a strike. We need a 4th/5th starter, not an ace.
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  11. #36
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    I'd take Cortes over Enns as well. Hopefully Cortes at least starts in AAA.

  12. #37
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    It's ok if his fastball is 89-92, as long as it's cutting & as long the changeup is about 10MPH slower & it looks like a strike. We need a 4th/5th starter, not an ace.
    So, so true as long as he can keep doing what he's been doing .

  13. #38
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    I'd take Cortes over Enns as well. Hopefully Cortes at least starts in AAA.
    If they hadn't moved him so slowly last year, he'd definitely have a shot. But he spent 2/3 of the year at Charleston last year. There are just too many guys ahead of him right now. He may make it there by the end of the season, but there's a serious logjam that he'll need to separate himself from first.

    All of these guys have pitched significantly more innings at higher levels:
    Montgomery
    Enns
    Camarena
    Adams
    Herrera
    Lail
    Sheffield
    Rogers
    Clarkin
    Littell
    Reeves
    Acevedo
    Ramirez
    Tarpley
    Severino/Cessa/Green

  14. #39
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob035 View Post
    If they hadn't moved him so slowly last year, he'd definitely have a shot. But he spent 2/3 of the year at Charleston last year. There are just too many guys ahead of him right now. He may make it there by the end of the season, but there's a serious logjam that he'll need to separate himself from first.

    All of these guys have pitched significantly more innings at higher levels:
    Montgomery
    Enns
    Camarena
    Adams
    Herrera
    Lail
    Sheffield
    Rogers
    Clarkin
    Littell
    Reeves
    Acevedo
    Ramirez
    Tarpley
    Severino/Cessa/Green
    Fair point. However, some of those guys have injury concerns, (Clarkin). Some just are not very good, or at least were not in 2016 (Lail).

  15. #40

    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by mbn007 View Post
    Fair point. However, some of those guys have injury concerns, (Clarkin). Some just are not very good, or at least were not in 2016 (Lail).
    Yeah, but it hardly changes the main point that he had only 2 starts above A-ball last year which doesn't make him a likely candidate for either the Bronx or even Scranton this spring. Not to mention that he threw only 106 innings last year.

  16. #41
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Yeah, but it hardly changes the main point that he had only 2 starts above A-ball last year which doesn't make him a likely candidate for either the Bronx or even Scranton this spring. Not to mention that he threw only 106 innings last year.
    Agreed.


    Nestor is not yet ready for the show, and there are guys who most likely will get a shot before him.


    That said, if he keeps on pitching like he has, he will move up the food chain ahead of others.

  17. #42
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob035 View Post
    If they hadn't moved him so slowly last year, he'd definitely have a shot. But he spent 2/3 of the year at Charleston last year. There are just too many guys ahead of him right now. He may make it there by the end of the season, but there's a serious logjam that he'll need to separate himself from first.

    All of these guys have pitched significantly more innings at higher levels:
    Montgomery
    Enns
    Camarena
    Adams
    Herrera
    Lail
    Sheffield
    Rogers
    Clarkin
    Littell
    Reeves
    Acevedo
    Ramirez
    Tarpley
    Severino/Cessa/Green
    He's more polished than the large majority of guys on that list. He could also be useful as a LOOGY type. I wouldn't be surprised if he broke camp with the team.

  18. #43

    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by mbn007 View Post
    Agreed.


    Nestor is not yet ready for the show, and there are guys who most likely will get a shot before him.


    That said, if he keeps on pitching like he has, he will move up the food chain ahead of others.
    No doubt.

  19. #44
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    He's more polished than the large majority of guys on that list. He could also be useful as a LOOGY type. I wouldn't be surprised if he broke camp with the team.
    I would like that but i don't see it happening . Now on the other hand I have seen Nestor get his FB up to 94. He hit it a few times when I saw him in Pulaski.

  20. #45
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    This was a comment from the comment section on a Fangraphs article (by a poster named jruby) -


    I really hope Dietrich Enns gets some solid playing time. More people should know about this guy. 19th round pick in the 2012 draft, crafty lefty who’s absolutely ridiculous at holding runners (saw him pick off three in a game in AAA last year).

    Plus, his career trajectory is pretty cool:

    2012 (A-, 42.2 IP): 2.11 ERA, 2.84 FIP
    2013 (A, 44.1 IP): 0.61 ERA, 1.52 FIP
    2013 (A+, 38.1 IP): 5.63 ERA, 4.15 FIP
    2014 (A+, 25.1 IP): 1.42 ERA, 3.15 FIP
    2015 (R, 11.1 IP): 0.00 ERA, 2.25 FIP
    2015 (A+, 47.1 IP): 0.76 ERA, 2.43 FIP
    2016 (AA, 70.0 IP): 1.93 ERA, 3.13 FIP
    2016 (AAA, 65.0 IP): 1.52 ERA, 3.52 FIP

    In 344.1 minor league innings, he’s allowed a total of 11 home runs (that’s 0.29 per 9 IP), and that plus his crazy almost-balkish-but-only-ever-been-called-for-1-balk-in-his-pro-career move makes for a guy who just lives a run or a run-and-a-half below his FIP.

  21. #46
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Thanks Sey. Interesting. There are so many intriguing guys with insane mL numbers last season. I hope they all get a shot.

  22. #47
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    I really hope Enns succeeds. I hope he becomes a HOFer for the Yanks. However, those numbers aren't as impressive if you include his ages at each of those levels. There's a big difference between succeeding at High-A as a 20 year old (Sheffield) and succeeding in high-A as a 24 year old (Enns in 2015). They also don't include his BB numbers; he simply walks too many batters right now to have any big upside

    With all that said, if he ever becomes a quality #4 or #5, it would be great for the Yankees. A career path like one that Tom Koehler took isn't out of the realm of possibility at all.

  23. #48
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by DaBliz View Post
    I really hope Enns succeeds. I hope he becomes a HOFer for the Yanks. However, those numbers aren't as impressive if you include his ages at each of those levels. There's a big difference between succeeding at High-A as a 20 year old (Sheffield) and succeeding in high-A as a 24 year old (Enns in 2015). They also don't include his BB numbers; he simply walks too many batters right now to have any big upside

    With all that said, if he ever becomes a quality #4 or #5, it would be great for the Yankees. A career path like one that Tom Koehler took isn't out of the realm of possibility at all.

    He was coming back from surgery. He was not in Tampa for any other reason except that the Yankees probably wanted him near headquarters so they could closely monitor him. Look how quickly he got to AAA the next season - in about a 1/2 year.


    You are right about his walk numbers. They are higher than one would like.

  24. #49

    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by DaBliz View Post
    I really hope Enns succeeds. I hope he becomes a HOFer for the Yanks. However, those numbers aren't as impressive if you include his ages at each of those levels. There's a big difference between succeeding at High-A as a 20 year old (Sheffield) and succeeding in high-A as a 24 year old (Enns in 2015). They also don't include his BB numbers; he simply walks too many batters right now to have any big upside.
    I'm not sure why you're focusing only on his high walk rate. He paired that with a ridiculously low hit rate. The result was a WHIP of 1.12. I don't see that as a problem.

    I agree that Sheffield's success at a young age is very promising. But what does that have to do with Enns? He didn't just succeed at A+ as a 24-year-old. He was off the charts.

  25. #50
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    Re: Dietrich Enns vs. Jordan Montgomery For 5th Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankyfan View Post
    I have read these reports a bunch and as I have said on the minors thread as have others who has seen him pitch live, I've yet to witness this jump in Velo. I wish I had but if you read my game reviews over the past year from AA And AAA starts no such jumps was witnessed on my part. BTW the question has come up about park guns and I've seen him at other parks other than Arm and Hammer and PNC. Maybe this velo jump occurred in Tampa?
    You and I are on the same page. I saw Montgomery pitch 4 times last season, each time he sat consistently in the 87-89 range, occasionally touched 90/91. The last two times towards the end of the season I sat behind the scouts and their radar guns were consistent with the scoreboard gun, he sat in the 87-89 range most of the time. I don't believe the reports regarding the jump in velocity.

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