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Thread: 2017 hof

  1. #51
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 hof

    Doesn't matter until Marvin Miller is in.

  2. #52
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    Re: 2017 hof

    Quote Originally Posted by effdamets View Post
    I find it pretty amazing that I-Rod was only the 2nd catcher voted in on the first ballot.
    Berra? Fisk? Whoa. I guess you learn something everyday.
    I don't get the whole concept of first ballot HOFer entirely. IMO, either you are or are not a HOFer.

    Do the members of the BBWAA really need fifteen years (formerly twenty) to make up their minds on an individual's career?
    Forgive me for taking the Contrarian view

  3. #53
    Do not vex me mortal Hitman23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longtimeyankeefan View Post
    I don't get the whole concept of first ballot HOFer entirely. IMO, either you are or are not a HOFer.

    Do the members of the BBWAA really need fifteen years (formerly twenty) to make up their minds on an individual's career?
    I feel the same, you either are or you aren't. But I do have conditions.
    1) if a player gets in on the first ballot, it is something worthy of mention. It means that the choice was obviously easy.
    2) The "first ballot" notation should not be a factor in deciding when a player gets on the ballot. If you believe he should be in, vote for him. None of this "not a first ballot guy" sht.
    3) The only reason a player should not get a vote if he deserves it is if there are ten guys you're already voting for and one/some of them are nearing the end of their eligibility.

    Again, it's worthy of mention but should never be a deciding factor.

  4. #54
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    Re: 2017 hof

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman23 View Post
    I feel the same, you either are or you aren't. But I do have conditions.
    1) if a player gets in on the first ballot, it is something worthy of mention. It means that the choice was obviously easy.
    2) The "first ballot" notation should not be a factor in deciding when a player gets on the ballot. If you believe he should be in, vote for him. None of this "not a first ballot guy" sht.
    3) The only reason a player should not get a vote if he deserves it is if there are ten guys you're already voting for and one/some of them are nearing the end of their eligibility.

    Again, it's worthy of mention but should never be a deciding factor.
    The problem with #3 is that it limits you - in years where there are many worthy players to consider, why should you be limited?

    I would much rather a one year, vote for however many you want approach - at least in that way, the voters have to make a decision, not post a wait until next year next to someone's name.

    People say that Posada was shorted this year because of the number of worthy candidates on the ballot - my approach is either he is or is not a hall of famer. No ten year period creeping up the list, then getting a spurt at the very end.
    Forgive me for taking the Contrarian view

  5. #55
    Do not vex me mortal Hitman23's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 hof

    I would totally take off the 10 player limit. You should get as many votes as you need. The voters do play around this way though. Guys don't get voted for because of various reasons, and this is one of them. The one that makes me angry though is the one that doesn't vote for a guy who is an obvious pick because everyone else will and he doesn't believe in 100%. But thats another argument.

    So many flaws.

    As for Posada, I could see that argument if more than three players got in!

  6. #56
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    Re: 2017 hof

    Its kind of messed up Posada didnt even stick around for another year
    The real reason why the Yankees keep winning is cause the other team can't stop staring at the damn pinstripes

  7. #57
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    Re: 2017 hof

    Quote Originally Posted by BronxYanks45 View Post
    Its kind of messed up Posada didnt even stick around for another year
    What makes you think the Yankees were going to offer him a contract for another year as a 40 year old? If I recall he was almost released after losing playing time and complaining about it during his final season.

    I love Jorge but he is not a HOF'er. Hall of famers aren't buried in the minors until age 25 and then share time till age 28.
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  8. #58
    Do not vex me mortal Hitman23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donnybaseball72 View Post
    What makes you think the Yankees were going to offer him a contract for another year as a 40 year old? If I recall he was almost released after losing playing time and complaining about it during his final season.

    I love Jorge but he is not a HOF'er. Hall of famers aren't buried in the minors until age 25 and then share time till age 28.
    I think he means that he got bumped off the ballot on his first year.

  9. #59
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    Re: 2017 hof

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnybaseball72 View Post
    What makes you think the Yankees were going to offer him a contract for another year as a 40 year old? If I recall he was almost released after losing playing time and complaining about it during his final season.

    I love Jorge but he is not a HOF'er. Hall of famers aren't buried in the minors until age 25 and then share time till age 28.
    He's not a Hall of Famer but the list of catchers (at least 80% of games played as C) with a higher career OPS+ than Posada's 121 is pretty small and almost most of them are in the Hall or currently active. He was very underrated.

    I think it's a shame he didn't hang on the ballot with 10-15% of the vote at least for a few years.

    But I agree Posada belongs in t he Hall of Very Good.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  10. #60
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 hof

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    He's not a Hall of Famer but the list of catchers (at least 80% of games played as C) with a higher career OPS+ than Posada's 121 is pretty small and almost most of them are in the Hall or currently active. He was very underrated.

    I think it's a shame he didn't hang on the ballot with 10-15% of the vote at least for a few years.

    But I agree Posada belongs in t he Hall of Very Good.

    Worst baserunner I ever saw in my life. Not necessarily the slowest, but no one else combined leaden feet with awful judgment the way he did.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
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  11. #61
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    Re: 2017 hof

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Worst baserunner I ever saw in my life. Not necessarily the slowest, but no one else combined leaden feet with awful judgment the way he did.
    I still recall one of the funniest plays I've eve seen where the umps totally screwed up the running was when Posada and Cano both wound up at 3B in the ALCS v the Angels.

    Posada as the lead runner had the right to the bag but he left it to go towrads of all places left field. The 3B tagged Cano which should have been an out and then Posada after he left the base which should have been a DP but the ump only called one of them out, i forget which. Truly keystone cops level of comedy. But worked out to Yanks advantage in the end.

    Yeah Posada was a horrible, horrible base runner.

    But we'll always have that hustle double off Martinez in 2003. Thank you Grady Little for leaving him in!
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  12. #62
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 hof

    I meant to add: I loved just about everything else about Posada, including his red-ass attitude.

  13. #63

    Re: 2017 hof

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I meant to add: I loved just about everything else about Posada, including his red-ass attitude.
    Why do you always have to make it about race?


  14. #64

    Re: 2017 hof

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I meant to add: I loved just about everything else about Posada, including his red-ass attitude.
    I don't think he knew pitch framing was a thing.
    Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers- George Carlin

  15. #65

    Re: 2017 hof

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    I still recall one of the funniest plays I've eve seen where the umps totally screwed up the running was when Posada and Cano both wound up at 3B in the ALCS v the Angels.

    Posada as the lead runner had the right to the bag but he left it to go towrads of all places left field. The 3B tagged Cano which should have been an out and then Posada after he left the base which should have been a DP but the ump only called one of them out, i forget which. Truly keystone cops level of comedy. But worked out to Yanks advantage in the end.

    Yeah Posada was a horrible, horrible base runner.

    But we'll always have that hustle double off Martinez in 2003. Thank you Grady Little for leaving him in!
    When I read the post about Posada being a bad baserunner, that was the first play that came to mind. Good thing we didn't have replay then.

    (btw, I was at that game)
    It won't be long before we can all forget Cano and realize that Castro can be everything Robinson was for us. - Retired_Doc

  16. #66

    Re: 2017 hof

    Quote Originally Posted by trapper700 View Post
    Some baseball writers have said that they think Edgar Martinez might not make the Hall because other writers are still voting against him because he was a DH and that's a travesty. I'd also be greatly upset if Edgar doesn't make the hall and Ortiz does.
    Edgar was the best pure hitter I ever saw.

    It's funny that some writers won't vote for him as a DH in light of the fact that they put monitor in despite the fact that he never would have had Hall of Fame credentials without the 8 years he spent as a DH.

    It's also the height of the absurd to deny players who were specialists as DH when they've enshrined many pitchers who were specialists as relievers. At least a DH is a full time player on offense while a reliever is a part time player on defense. A much stronger case can be made for a DH than for a reliever.

  17. #67

    Re: 2017 hof

    Quote Originally Posted by melon View Post
    When I read the post about Posada being a bad baserunner, that was the first play that came to mind. Good thing we didn't have replay then.

    (btw, I was at that game)
    Hardly unique to find a catcher who was a bad baserunner.

  18. #68
    Foul pole sitter Skowron's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 hof

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Edgar was the best pure hitter I ever saw.

    It's funny that some writers won't vote for him as a DH in light of the fact that they put monitor in despite the fact that he never would have had Hall of Fame credentials without the 8 years he spent as a DH.

    It's also the height of the absurd to deny players who were specialists as DH when they've enshrined many pitchers who were specialists as relievers. At least a DH is a full time player on offense while a reliever is a part time player on defense. A much stronger case can be made for a DH than for a reliever.
    Edgar was a terrific hitter but he had some peers in recent years that along with him, I would have a hard time choosing among. Rod Carew, Tony Gwynn, Roberto Clemente, Miguel Cabrera. I saw Musial and Ted Williams when I was very young but I can't say I actually understood or appreciated how great they were through my 9 or 10 year old eyes.

  19. #69
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Hardly unique to find a catcher who was a bad baserunner.
    Again, catchers who are slow are a dime a dozen. Posada wasn't as slow as Jose Molina. What set Posada apart was that he was slow and had such awful judgment. Most slow runners know not to take an extra base.

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