+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 69

Thread: 2017 hof

  1. #26

    Re: 2017 hof

    I don't believe any of the well known roid users will get in this year. And I'm fine with that. Just for the sake of argument, I'm not listing Bagwell in this category.

    The latest that a roid user will get in will be 5 years from now, when Ortiz is eligible. Because IMO, he'll get in on the 1st or 2nd ballot. That's been my prediction, which is not necessarily what I believe is the correct move.

    This year, we'll see Bagwell, Hoffman, and hopefully Rock get in. I think Vlad will have to wait a year.
    It won't be long before we can all forget Cano and realize that Castro can be everything Robinson was for us. - Retired_Doc

  2. #27
    Do not vex me mortal Hitman23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Long Island
    Quote Originally Posted by ArodEra View Post
    The PED users who shouldn't be allowed in the HoF: In my best Donald Trump voice, Only David Ortiz!

    I'm guessing that a large percentage of players used some form of PED during the steroid era and I really don't have a problem with them (or anyone), and their getting into the HoF. That includes Bonds, Clemens, etc. I'm sure a lot of them are already in. Who cares.
    agreed. There is no way to tell who was clean and who wasn't. Some may have only used to stay healthy and on the field. For example Andy Pettite. He used for that reason. He realized he was being paid a boat load of money, had championship expectations on the line and needed to do what it took to pitch every five days. Others may have used and stayed under the radar by being really good players and not shattering records. There is zero ways of proving it. Canseco was a douchebag but he wasnt a liar. He said a huge percentage of players were using. I believe him. Steroids took a sport that was dying because of the strike and knocked it into the stratosphere as far as popularity and interest goes. They saved the sport if you want to be completely blunt.

    In my opinion you need to put it aside and go based on stats and accomplishments. Punishing players arbitrarily is not the right way. There's no guidelines to follow and it makes it unfair. If you want to include something in the HOF noting the era was a steroid era than that is fine. But it's supposed to be a snapshot of the best of the best of each generation. I think leaving guys like Bonds out is doing a disservice to the game and to people in the future who are interested in the history of the game, even if there is an era of it with a black mark.

  3. #28
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman23 View Post
    agreed. There is no way to tell who was clean and who wasn't. Some may have only used to stay healthy and on the field. For example Andy Pettite. He used for that reason. He realized he was being paid a boat load of money, had championship expectations on the line and needed to do what it took to pitch every five days. Others may have used and stayed under the radar by being really good players and not shattering records. There is zero ways of proving it. Canseco was a douchebag but he wasnt a liar. He said a huge percentage of players were using. I believe him. Steroids took a sport that was dying because of the strike and knocked it into the stratosphere as far as popularity and interest goes. They saved the sport if you want to be completely blunt.

    In my opinion you need to put it aside and go based on stats and accomplishments. Punishing players arbitrarily is not the right way. There's no guidelines to follow and it makes it unfair. If you want to include something in the HOF noting the era was a steroid era than that is fine. But it's supposed to be a snapshot of the best of the best of each generation. I think leaving guys like Bonds out is doing a disservice to the game and to people in the future who are interested in the history of the game, even if there is an era of it with a black mark.

    Ken Caminiti estimated that 50% of major-leaguers used steroids. Rickey Henderson said, "Well, Rickey's not one of them, so that's 49% right there."

  4. #29
    Do not vex me mortal Hitman23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Long Island
    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Ken Caminiti estimated that 50% of major-leaguers used steroids. Rickey Henderson said, "Well, Rickey's not one of them, so that's 49% right there."
    Rickey is awesome

    I think the number is higher though. Much higher.

  5. #30

    Re: 2017 hof

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Ken Caminiti estimated that 50% of major-leaguers used steroids. Rickey Henderson said, "Well, Rickey's not one of them, so that's 49% right there."
    If ever there was a roider, it's Rickey.

  6. #31

    Re: 2017 hof

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Ken Caminiti estimated that 50% of major-leaguers used steroids. Rickey Henderson said, "Well, Rickey's not one of them, so that's 49% right there."
    Others have estimated as high as 80%. More important, Tom House said players were using back in the '60's and '70's. Maybe those innocents before the steroid era weren't so innocent.

  7. #32
    Do not vex me mortal Hitman23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Long Island
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Others have estimated as high as 80%. More important, Tom House said players were using back in the '60's and '70's. Maybe those innocents before the steroid era weren't so innocent.
    I've heard rumblings about that also. I wouldn't be shocked. And maybe many writers on their pedestals would get a slap of reality in their face. All their supposedly perfect heroes are not so perfect after all.

  8. #33
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    NJ

    Re: 2017 hof

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Mxylsplk View Post
    Bagwell's getting in this year, and Raines and Hoffman have a good chance to join him. Pudge should get in, but might have to wait a year. I think Vlad will have to wait at least a year. I don't think anyone else on the ballot will ever get in (though noted twitter aficionado Schilling is inching up), unless there's a sea change in voters' attitude towards PED's.
    There's no way he's clean, but he's probably gonna coast into the Hall.

  9. #34

    Re: 2017 hof

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    If ever there was a roider, it's Rickey.
    Obviously, I don't have any proof so this is simply my opinion.

    But yes, I have Rickey in the dirty list. Piazza, Bagwell, Thomas, and Pudge, too.
    It won't be long before we can all forget Cano and realize that Castro can be everything Robinson was for us. - Retired_Doc

  10. #35

    Re: 2017 hof

    Quote Originally Posted by melon View Post
    The latest that a roid user will get in will be 5 years from now, when Ortiz is eligible. Because IMO, he'll get in on the 1st or 2nd ballot. That's been my prediction, which is not necessarily what I believe is the correct move.
    Since Manny is on the ballot, John Meterparel (one of the few hosts up here with any sense) said, "if you don't vote for Manny, how can you vote for Ortiz".

    A fill in female hosts replied "well, Ortiz isn't your typical steroid guy"..............

    This is the mentality that needs to be changed.......but the truth is...he isn't - he's the friggin' poster child - all the circumstantial evidence, characteristics and HE FAILED A DRUG TEST.
    Hideki Matsui is capable of anything

  11. #36

    Re: 2017 hof

    Quote Originally Posted by NerfBall55 View Post
    Since Manny is on the ballot, John Meterparel (one of the few hosts up here with any sense) said, "if you don't vote for Manny, how can you vote for Ortiz".

    A fill in female hosts replied "well, Ortiz isn't your typical steroid guy"..............

    This is the mentality that needs to be changed.......but the truth is...he isn't - he's the friggin' poster child - all the circumstantial evidence, characteristics and HE FAILED A DRUG TEST.
    As great as Manny's numbers were, he won't come close. I'll go on a limb and say he might be in danger of falling off the ballot due to having such a low vote total.

    I agree with the host when she implied that Ortiz won't be viewed by the voters as your typical steroid guy. So yeah, I definitely understand the challenges in picking and choosing which steroid guy gets in.
    It won't be long before we can all forget Cano and realize that Castro can be everything Robinson was for us. - Retired_Doc

  12. #37

    Re: 2017 hof

    Quote Originally Posted by melon View Post
    As great as Manny's numbers were, he won't come close. I'll go on a limb and say he might be in danger of falling off the ballot due to having such a low vote total.

    I agree with the host when she implied that Ortiz won't be viewed by the voters as your typical steroid guy. So yeah, I definitely understand the challenges in picking and choosing which steroid guy gets in.
    I'm just hoping Bonds, Clemens etc get in before Ortiz is even eligible. Players that were so much better than he was.
    Hideki Matsui is capable of anything

  13. #38
    Do not vex me mortal Hitman23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Long Island

    Re: 2017 hof

    If Ortiz, not Bonds, is the one that cracks the PED barrier into the hall, I will officially lose faith, what little I have left, in the human race.

  14. #39
    NYYF Cy Young

    oneill96's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Portlandia, USA.

    Re: 2017 hof

    Quote Originally Posted by teknetic View Post
    There's no way he's clean, but he's probably gonna coast into the Hall.
    Pudge didn't even make an attempt to defend himself when he was asked about 'roids. That "only God knows" answer waa the lamest excuse I've ever heard in my life. At least Bonds and McGwire took their legal right to paint themselves as bad guys. It'll be a travesty if he gets in the first time.
    When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it."

  15. #40

    Re: 2017 hof

    Quote Originally Posted by oneill96 View Post
    Pudge didn't even make an attempt to defend himself when he was asked about 'roids. That "only God knows" answer waa the lamest excuse I've ever heard in my life. At least Bonds and McGwire took their legal right to paint themselves as bad guys. It'll be a travesty if he gets in the first time.
    What's a travesty is that legitimate superstars are being kept out of the Hall, not that a 14-time All Star might. Be let in.

  16. #41
    NYYF Cy Young

    oneill96's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Portlandia, USA.

    Re: 2017 hof

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    What's a travesty is that legitimate superstars are being kept out of the Hall, not that a 14-time All Star might. Be let in.
    Yeah. I know. He's going to get in and he deserves it. But to act like it''s not an issue and put a halo on Pudge's head. That's something else. There should be some discussion on his first ballot.
    When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it."

  17. #42
    NYYF Legend

    Yankee Tripper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Left coast

    Re: 2017 hof

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    What's a travesty is that legitimate superstars are being kept out of the Hall, not that a 14-time All Star might. Be let in.
    I had no problem with Bonds/Clemens being kept out.

    But now that I-rod is in Bond/Clemens should at a minimum get the vote of every writer who voted for I-rod this year on next year's ballot.

    I know the evidence against I-rod is mostly circumstantial but there is a ton of it as well as the word of Jose Canseco who may be an idiot but he's rarely if ever been proven wrong on his steroid accusations which I'm pretty sure include I-rod.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  18. #43

    Re: 2017 hof

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    I had no problem with Bonds/Clemens being kept out.

    But now that I-rod is in Bond/Clemens should at a minimum get the vote of every writer who voted for I-rod this year on next year's ballot.

    I know the evidence against I-rod is mostly circumstantial but there is a ton of it as well as the word of Jose Canseco who may be an idiot but he's rarely if ever been proven wrong on his steroid accusations which I'm pretty sure include I-rod.
    C'mon, I'd bet money Piazza, Bagwell, and I. Rodriquez were PED users although I don't think I would find any takers. Now that they're in, the rest of the gang should be let in. It's just a silly double standard now.
    Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. ~ Dale Carnegie

  19. #44

  20. #45
    NYYF Legend


    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Brooklyn

    Re: 2017 hof

    It's going to be very awkward if/when Bonds and Clemens are inducted the same year as highly respected players like Mo in 2019, or Jeter in 2020.

  21. #46

    Re: 2017 hof

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    It's going to be very awkward if/when Bonds and Clemens are inducted the same year as highly respected players like Mo in 2019, or Jeter in 2020.
    They need to get in next year. IRod sealed that.
    Hideki Matsui is capable of anything

  22. #47
    NYYF Legend

    Yankee Tripper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Left coast

    Re: 2017 hof

    Quote Originally Posted by fredgmuggs View Post
    C'mon, I'd bet money Piazza, Bagwell, and I. Rodriquez were PED users although I don't think I would find any takers. Now that they're in, the rest of the gang should be let in. It's just a silly double standard now.
    I'd be surprised if anyone of them is clean but I think the circumstantial evidence is strongest against I-rod and he got in on 1st ballot.

    While I fully support taking a stand against steroid use that message has been sent and it's pretty clear that there are now some "dirty" players in so "but steroids" should no longer be an excuse to keep someone out.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  23. #48
    NYYF Legend

    ojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Girardi's reprieve...

    Re: 2017 hof

    Once Bud Selig was let into the HOF, *all* condemnations of PEDs users needs to cease and desist, post haste. (I like saying "post haste")

  24. #49
    Hello dum-dum... effdamets's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    In front of the TV

    Re: 2017 hof

    I find it pretty amazing that I-Rod was only the 2nd catcher voted in on the first ballot.
    Berra? Fisk? Whoa. I guess you learn something everyday.
    "Leave it to Yankees fans to be upset at having too many great players.Hitman23

  25. #50
    NYYF Cy Young


    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Seattle, WA

    Re: 2017 hof

    Some baseball writers have said that they think Edgar Martinez might not make the Hall because other writers are still voting against him because he was a DH and that's a travesty. I'd also be greatly upset if Edgar doesn't make the hall and Ortiz does.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts