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  1. #4226
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    .....
    cashman too busy negotiating a 2 year deal with ryan howard
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  2. #4227
    News Breaker hairnovaaa's Avatar
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    The Mariners have made 10 trades this offseason and...

    Jerry Crasnick:
    Jerry Dipoto isn't done yet. He's working on another deal that could include Mallex Smith, the OF he just acquired from the Braves.

  3. #4228
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    I think they are now that it's blown up in their face. However, I would highly highly doubt they are doing any due diligence on how this occurred. This isn't an organization that screams accountability.



    I'm not looking for an exact science. I'd like an emphasis (ala Rays) on throwing a changeup. Esepcially for a guy that exhibited a PLUS changeup in the minors. They sent him down to the minors for a 2nd time to work on his changeup (1st time I heard no mention of that), let him make 2 starts in the minors (1 2IP outing in relief), then called him back up to pitch in relief in the majors. This is a VERY inconsistent approach. Were they expecting him to throw his 3rd best pitch in the majors? The Yankee organization consistently do things to hinder prospect development instead of allowing prospects to grow in a fostering environment.

    There were some scouts that considered his changeup his BEST offspeed.


    http://www.minorleagueball.com/2014/...-luis-severino

    See video from 15':
    http://www.milb.com/multimedia/vpp.j...08583&sid=milb
    I'm not in disagreement on Severino as a pitcher or his repertoire, but how has this "blown up in their face"? The kid is 22 years old and the playful acronym TINSTAAPP exists for reasons beyond injury. He's younger than three big prospect names discussed this offseason, Reynaldo Lopez, Tyler Glasnow, and Jose De leon; he's a born in the same calendar year as Lucas Giolito and Alex Reyes; and he's already made 22 ML starts across two years. You yourself were just pointing out the other day how much of a long shot it is any pitching prospect to have success in the Major Leagues at a level above average.

    There isn't some sort of obvious and known answer that the Yankees are missing here because of ineptitude. There is no way that the Yankees just shrugged their shoulders, sent Severino down to work on his change, didn't pay attention to what he did in his two starts, and then called him back up because they forgot why they sent him there in the first place. There is a pitching coach working with him daily in the Majors, another one in the minors, and roving organizational coaches involved. They all know that he stopped having confidence in his changeup, and they all know the goal was to get it back. Even in the coldest scenario Severino is an asset and not a person to them, and they still would be trying like hell to figure it out in order to wring production from him.

    I mean, that article itself Cashman is discussing the fact that they've been trying like hell to solve the issue with throwing his changeup. Maybe the organization IS the problem, but I don't see anything in that article specifically which demonstrates that to me in any meaningful way.
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  4. #4229
    News Breaker hairnovaaa's Avatar
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    The Mariners have acquired Drew Smyly from the Rays for Mallex Smith, Carlos Vargas and Ryan Yarbrough.

  5. #4230
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by flymick24 View Post
    cashman too busy negotiating a 2 year deal with ryan howard
    Because a trade happened between 2 other teams in MLB? You guys are kind of a (very negative) broken record around here. No need to remind me that the Yankees are terrible and it's Cashman's fault and thus you are entitled to random bitching, I've read that before somewhere

  6. #4231
    It's a walkoff Mark19's Avatar
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    I think we could have beat that package without losing any premium prospects - and we needed another lefty for the rotation
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  7. #4232
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vanderlay View Post
    Not the issue. They drew a hard line with Cano at 7/175 and then turned around and signed an inferior player to 7/155. That chain of events is indefensible,
    Not sure why we keep torturing ourselves with this, but...

    I don't think this is the sequence of events. My recollection that I'm pretty confident in was that the Yankees highest officially reported offer was 7/$175MM or so. Early in the process, presumably because they self-acknowledged it would take a "blown out of the water" offer to land him, Seattle beat that offer by ~38%. Right out of the gate. Additionally, no state income tax in Washington further separates their offer from what the Yankees had on the table. That's what, an additional $10MM in Cano's pocket as well? So net net we're talking an instantaneous $75MM delta. What is the point in the Yankees countering there if they know they're wisely not going to 10 years or near $250MM in salary/tax benefits?

    I mean, would you as a fan feel better if the Yankees offered 8/$200MM (which is the deal I had hoped they'd offer and he'd accept prior to Seattle going batsh*t crazy), even with the knowledge there is no way in hell he'd walk away from $50MM incremental guaranteed?

    I disagree with the criticism continually thown at their "hardlining" approach, although clearly their decision to take those $$ and spend them anyway on inferior players is wide open for criticism.

  8. #4233
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark19 View Post
    I think we could have beat that package without losing any premium prospects - and we needed another lefty for the rotation
    Yeah, Smyly would have been a decent acquisition target.

  9. #4234
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jace View Post
    Because a trade happened between 2 other teams in MLB? You guys are kind of a (very negative) broken record around here. No need to remind me that the Yankees are terrible and it's Cashman's fault and thus you are entitled to random bitching, I've read that before somewhere
    Everyone is making fun of Cashman.

  10. #4235
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Snatch Catch View Post
    I'm not in disagreement on Severino as a pitcher or his repertoire, but how has this "blown up in their face"? The kid is 22 years old and the playful acronym TINSTAAPP exists for reasons beyond injury. He's younger than three big prospect names discussed this offseason, Reynaldo Lopez, Tyler Glasnow, and Jose De leon; he's a born in the same calendar year as Lucas Giolito and Alex Reyes; and he's already made 22 ML starts across two years. You yourself were just pointing out the other day how much of a long shot it is any pitching prospect to have success in the Major Leagues at a level above average.

    There isn't some sort of obvious and known answer that the Yankees are missing here because of ineptitude. There is no way that the Yankees just shrugged their shoulders, sent Severino down to work on his change, didn't pay attention to what he did in his two starts, and then called him back up because they forgot why they sent him there in the first place. There is a pitching coach working with him daily in the Majors, another one in the minors, and roving organizational coaches involved. They all know that he stopped having confidence in his changeup, and they all know the goal was to get it back. Even in the coldest scenario Severino is an asset and not a person to them, and they still would be trying like hell to figure it out in order to wring production from him.

    I mean, that article itself Cashman is discussing the fact that they've been trying like hell to solve the issue with throwing his changeup. Maybe the organization IS the problem, but I don't see anything in that article specifically which demonstrates that to me in any meaningful way.
    They can have all the coaches in the world around him. However, in the majors he wasn't throwing his changeup. He especially wouldn't do so in the relief role they placed him in after they called him back up. If the goal was for him to work on his changeup, wouldn't it make the most sense to allow him to do so in actual games?

  11. #4236
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    I can't wait to see what we acquire for Tanaka at the deadline. He'd be a true difference maker on the market. Considering the new draft pick compensation rules, it would make absolutely no sense to hold on to Tanaka at the deadline if the team is looking like a playoff long shot.

    Pineda could potentially be an attractive piece as well. Clippard, Betances, Gardner, Headley....come on down!

  12. #4237
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    I can't wait to see what we acquire for Tanaka at the deadline. He'd be a true difference maker on the market. Considering the new draft pick compensation rules, it would make absolutely no sense to hold on to Tanaka at the deadline if the team is looking like a playoff long shot.

    Pineda could potentially be an attractive piece as well. Clippard, Betances, Gardner, Headley....come on down!
    I'm more concerned they'll stupidly hang on to him. Somehow assuming he won't be opting out.

  13. #4238

    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Saw a story that Yankees have reached out to Nathan Eovaldi's agent about a possible deal.
    Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. ~ Dale Carnegie

  14. #4239
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    They can have all the coaches in the world around him. However, in the majors he wasn't throwing his changeup. He especially wouldn't do so in the relief role they placed him in after they called him back up. If the goal was for him to work on his changeup, wouldn't it make the most sense to allow him to do so in actual games?
    But what do you do when the kid doesn't want to throw it and won't? Give him a timeout in the corner until he does what you want?

    I don't see this as a case where he was just being absent-minded and needed to be shown the light. What's being described is that he developed a mental discomfort/insecurity with the pitch, and that's not a simple fix. Sometimes that stuff ends careers. It's not always a matter of reps or handling from my perspective.
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  15. #4240
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    I can't wait to see what we acquire for Tanaka at the deadline. He'd be a true difference maker on the market. Considering the new draft pick compensation rules, it would make absolutely no sense to hold on to Tanaka at the deadline if the team is looking like a playoff long shot.

    Pineda could potentially be an attractive piece as well. Clippard, Betances, Gardner, Headley....come on down!
    Oh man, that is legitimately exciting to think about. Damn. Almost makes me root for losses. Almost.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    I'm more concerned they'll stupidly hang on to him. Somehow assuming he won't be opting out.
    Aaaaaaand I'm sobered up.
    Jaret Wright's 2005 Cy Young Season: 20-3, 3.04 ERA

  16. #4241
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    For me, I'm not opposed to the idea of a Tanaka deal at the deadline and a nice return. But if Pineda and CC are also gone after the season, and we can't resign Tanaka as a free agent, how do they construct a rotation in 2018 when we're supposed to start seeing light at the end of the tunnel?
    Yankee fan living in Maine.

  17. #4242

    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Everyone is making fun of Cashman.



  18. #4243
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by apalradio View Post
    For me, I'm not opposed to the idea of a Tanaka deal at the deadline and a nice return. But if Pineda and CC are also gone after the season, and we can't resign Tanaka as a free agent, how do they construct a rotation in 2018 when we're supposed to start seeing light at the end of the tunnel?
    Lincoln Logs or an erector set?
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  19. #4244
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by apalradio View Post
    For me, I'm not opposed to the idea of a Tanaka deal at the deadline and a nice return. But if Pineda and CC are also gone after the season, and we can't resign Tanaka as a free agent, how do they construct a rotation in 2018 when we're supposed to start seeing light at the end of the tunnel?
    What's not trading Tanaka do for re-signing him? He's opting out of his deal regardless.

  20. #4245

    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by apalradio View Post
    For me, I'm not opposed to the idea of a Tanaka deal at the deadline and a nice return. But if Pineda and CC are also gone after the season, and we can't resign Tanaka as a free agent, how do they construct a rotation in 2018 when we're supposed to start seeing light at the end of the tunnel?
    This is exactly why it's important to give our young pitchers a lot of starts this season to see who is ready to step into the rotation in '17. If a young starter is struggling with a 3rd pitch or if his head is not straight, give him some time at AAA and give another #4-#5 guy his chance.

    I don't think we can afford to let next season pass by without getting some answers on as many of young pitchers as possible.
    George, Gabe, Stick >>> Hal, Randy, Cash

  21. #4246
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Everyone is making fun of Cashman.
    I'm just waiting for new jokes. Read the lube one 80 times or so, the affair one, etc. I don't really get the point of attacks unless they are actually funny or at least novel.

    I like real trade criticism, just read a lot of the "something happened that wasn't a Yankee absolute steal of a trade, time for repetitive knee jerk sarcastic remark" lately.

  22. #4247
    Better than you teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vanderlay View Post
    You don't know that and neither do I. Again, had they signed neither player I could have lived with it, but to draw a hard line with Cano at 7/175 and then sign an inferior player to 7/155 is indefensible.
    When was the last time a professional athlete left $40M on the table to re-sign with his former team? The Ellsbury signing doesn't have anything to do with this.

  23. #4248
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Snatch Catch View Post
    Oh man, that is legitimately exciting to think about. Damn. Almost makes me root for losses. Almost.



    Aaaaaaand I'm sobered up.
    I'm trying to read into the fact they haven't discussed an extension with him yet, but don't know how to look at it. Does it mean they're not interested in extending him? Does it mean they want to see him get through the season in one piece before guaranteeing him more money?

  24. #4249

    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by teknetic View Post
    When was the last time a professional athlete left $40M on the table to re-sign with his former team? The Ellsbury signing doesn't have anything to do with this.
    Dustin Pedroia. 8 years for $110mil. League MVP, 201 hits in 2016. Same age as Ellsbury.

    He easily left $40mil on the table.

  25. #4250

    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by melon View Post
    This is exactly why it's important to give our young pitchers a lot of starts this season to see who is ready to step into the rotation in '17. If a young starter is struggling with a 3rd pitch or if his head is not straight, give him some time at AAA and give another #4-#5 guy his chance.

    I don't think we can afford to let next season pass by without getting some answers on as many of young pitchers as possible.
    You nailed it!

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