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  1. #4151

    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Gross. Our infield is a disaster and not in any way setup for the future. Go trade Castro to the Dodgers dummy.
    Wait, I thought we didn't want the IF to be set up for the future right now? Have you ever sent your resume' to the Yankees front office, CP? Clearly, your ability to move Castro, Headley, and Ellsbury in fantasy arm chair deals while also dealing for replacements would get you a pretty good job :-). I kid, I am all about making improvements and clearing underperformance, and again, I don't know, but I am assuming Cashman probably really did try despite what some posters on here think.

  2. #4152
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by freebubba View Post
    Wait, I thought we didn't want the IF to be set up for the future right now? Have you ever sent your resume' to the Yankees front office, CP? Clearly, your ability to move Castro, Headley, and Ellsbury in fantasy arm chair deals while also dealing for replacements would get you a pretty good job :-). I kid, I am all about making improvements and clearing underperformance, and again, I don't know, but I am assuming Cashman probably really did try despite what some posters on here think.
    Because he's a bad GM who acquires bad players and rides their contracts out instead of admitting his mistakes?

  3. #4153

    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Because he's a bad GM who acquires bad players and rides their contracts out instead of admitting his mistakes?
    Again, not necessarily disagreeing with you on that point. However, my main point was that to say the IF isn't set up for the future really doesn't worry me at this point. Secondly, we have no idea what other teams were offering for Headley or Castro. Did he make the determination that paying 50% of remaining salaries and not getting any type of decent prospects back just didn't make sense? Then to have to turn around and expend further assets to get those positions squared away? I don't know, and neither do you. Castro and Headley are not blocking anyone in 2017. Cashman certainly had no problem moving McCann when that was the case, and he had no problem getting ARod off the field, so I am not too worried about it going forward.

  4. #4154
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by freebubba View Post
    Again, not necessarily disagreeing with you on that point. However, my main point was that to say the IF isn't set up for the future really doesn't worry me at this point. Secondly, we have no idea what other teams were offering for Headley or Castro. Did he make the determination that paying 50% of remaining salaries and not getting any type of decent prospects back just didn't make sense? Then to have to turn around and expend further assets to get those positions squared away? I don't know, and neither do you. Castro and Headley are not blocking anyone in 2017. Cashman certainly had no problem moving McCann when that was the case, and he had no problem getting ARod off the field, so I am not too worried about it going forward.
    This is difference between you and I. You give Cashman the benefit of the doubt. I do not. I think the man is a moron.

    What I would do is I would move Castro for a salary dump if needed, and then trade for Profar or another high reward/high risk type player. The time to make this type of move is now. You aren't competing this season. Even Cashman himself has admitted this. So what is the point of riding out below average to mediocre players the next couple seasons? How does this benefit the club?

  5. #4155

    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    This is difference between you and I. You give Cashman the benefit of the doubt. I do not. I think the man is a moron.

    What I would do is I would move Castro for a salary dump if needed, and then trade for Profar or another high reward/high risk type player. The time to make this type of move is now. You aren't competing this season. Even Cashman himself has admitted this. So what is the point of riding out below average to mediocre players the next couple seasons? How does this benefit the club?
    Let's be honest. You wouldn't have acquired Castro inthe first place. You fundamentally disagree with Cashman on the value of the player from the time he was acquired. That's what's at issue here, not whether or not he'll be traded.

  6. #4156
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Let's be honest. You wouldn't have acquired Castro inthe first place. You fundamentally disagree with Cashman on the value of the player from the time he was acquired. That's what's at issue here, not whether or not he'll be traded.
    Honest? Am I stating otherwise?

    Why would I assume Cashman is looking to upgrade the position? He's the one that traded for Castro and he's the one that continues to defend said trade. I'm assuming he isn't and stating that's a mistake.

  7. #4157
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    "We stay engaged with the marketplace, but I think more likely than not 99 percent likely we are going to be going to camp with what we have," Cashman told Jim Bowden on the former GM's SiriusXM radio show Monday morning
    help feed the hungry:

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  8. #4158

    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Honest? Am I stating otherwise?
    Sorry, I wasn't implying you weren't being honest. It's just a figure of speech.

    Why would I assume Cashman is looking to upgrade the position? He's the one that traded for Castro and he's the one that continues to defend said trade. I'm assuming he isn't and stating that's a mistake.
    I didn't state that he's looking to upgrade the position. I don't know what you're referring to. I just think you're beating a dead horse.
    Last edited by Bill Marsh; 01-10-17 at 02:24 PM.

  9. #4159

    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    This is difference between you and I. You give Cashman the benefit of the doubt. I do not. I think the man is a moron.

    What I would do is I would move Castro for a salary dump if needed, and then trade for Profar or another high reward/high risk type player. The time to make this type of move is now. You aren't competing this season. Even Cashman himself has admitted this. So what is the point of riding out below average to mediocre players the next couple seasons? How does this benefit the club?
    Again, not disagreeing per se. How much of Castro's salary are you picking up, then what are you giving up for Profar? Is Profar at least a defensive wizard? If I am going to gamble on his bat, I would at least want that assurance. I don't know what is up with his bat.

    Edit: Saw a few pages back what you would be willing to do with Profar. What happens when his bat sucks and he makes Castro look like Mike Trout? I assume at that point you are happy with the salary dump regardless?

  10. #4160
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Sorry, I wasn't implying you weren't being honest. It's just a figure of speech.

    I didn't state that he's. Looking to upgrade the position. I don't know what you're referring to. I just think you're beating a dead horse.
    I suppose. The only news at hand is that Cashman has come out and said he's done. I'm discussing that. I think going into the season with the team as is, is a bad idea. This is a great season to chance some things. We aren't taking advantage of that.

    You have something else you want to discuss?

  11. #4161
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by freebubba View Post
    Again, not disagreeing per se. How much of Castro's salary are you picking up, then what are you giving up for Profar? Is Profar at least a defensive wizard? If I am going to gamble on his bat, I would at least want that assurance. I don't know what is up with his bat.
    Yes. He's strong defensively. UZR has him as a positive at both SS and 2B in 2016. Scouting always had him as a strong defender. But as I said, I have no reason to believe Cashman isn't totally stoked on himself and his acquisition of Castro. I have no reason to believe he's actively trying to change his 2nd baseman.

  12. #4162

    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Yes. He's strong defensively. UZR has him as a positive at both SS and 2B in 2016. Scouting always had him as a strong defender. But as I said, I have no reason to believe Cashman isn't totally stoked on himself and his acquisition of Castro. I have no reason to believe he's actively trying to change his 2nd baseman.
    I think your mindset is anything is better than Castro, and I am not sure that is the case, high upside be damned. High upside mediocrity is still mediocrity, and how much cheaper is it really once you factor in sending cash and somebody like Profar's arbitration bumps? Overall, it helps lower total salary figures, but as far as adding on field value? I don't know.

  13. #4163
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by freebubba View Post
    I think your mindset is anything is better than Castro, and I am not sure that is the case, high upside be damned. High upside mediocrity is still mediocrity, and how much cheaper is it really once you factor in sending cash and somebody like Profar's arbitration bumps? Overall, it helps lower total salary figures, but as far as adding on field value? I don't know.
    I have no idea what you mean. Profar would offer immense upside. He's someone who put up better mL numbers than Gleyber Torres at a younger age.

  14. #4164

    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    This NYDailyNews article from a week ago reminded me of both Mr. Marsh and Mr. Pickle.

    Headline: "Three years later, Yankees letting Robinson Cano walk looks like mistake"

    An eight-year, $200 million offer supposedly would've done the trick. But the Yankees went in a different direction, giving Jacoby Ellsbury a seven-year, $153 million deal, and deciding to move on from Cano.
    Regarding Castro:

    GM Brian Cashman essentially acquired Castro for nothing as Adam Warren ultimately came back from the Chicago Cubs but his past inconsistencies remained.

    Last season, he ranked 17th among 21 qualifying second basemen in OPS (.734) and 18th among 21 qualifiers at the position in Ultimate Zone Rating (-7.7) -- which, according to FanGraphs, attempts to quantify how many runs a player saves -- or surrenders -- depending on his fielding skill.
    http://www.nyyfansforum.com/newreply...reply&t=136275
    George, Gabe, Stick >>> Hal, Randy, Cash

  15. #4165

    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by freebubba View Post
    Again, not disagreeing per se. How much of Castro's salary are you picking up, then what are you giving up for Profar? Is Profar at least a defensive wizard? If I am going to gamble on his bat, I would at least want that assurance. I don't know what is up with his bat.

    Edit: Saw a few pages back what you would be willing to do with Profar. What happens when his bat sucks and he makes Castro look like Mike Trout? I assume at that point you are happy with the salary dump regardless?
    Do you think Castro is overpaid, and thus may have been a salary dump by Theo?
    George, Gabe, Stick >>> Hal, Randy, Cash

  16. #4166

    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by flymick24 View Post
    A chance between slim and none.

  17. #4167
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by melon View Post
    This NYDailyNews article from a week ago reminded me of both Mr. Marsh and Mr. Pickle.

    Headline: "Three years later, Yankees letting Robinson Cano walk looks like mistake"

    Regarding Castro:


    http://www.nyyfansforum.com/newreply...reply&t=136275
    If it's true that Cano would have signed for 8/200, that looks like a MASSIVE mistake right now. Coming off the season he just had, he'd definitely get the balance 5/125 he's owed if he was a free agent this offseason.

  18. #4168
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    If it's true that Cano would have signed for 8/200, that looks like a MASSIVE mistake right now. Coming off the season he just had, he'd definitely get the balance 5/125 he's owed if he was a free agent this offseason.
    Wow. Here's the article. Not at all surprising if true.

    Furthermore, there is this:

    As has been well-documented, the Yankees could've brought Cano back when he became a free agent in 2014. But they opted against offering more than seven years and $175 million to the then 31-year-old All-Star second baseman.

    An eight-year, $200 million offer supposedly would've done the trick. But the Yankees went in a different direction, giving Jacoby Ellsbury a seven-year, $153 million deal, and deciding to move on from Cano.
    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...icle-1.2935804

  19. #4169
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    If it's true that Cano would have signed for 8/200, that looks like a MASSIVE mistake right now. Coming off the season he just had, he'd definitely get the balance 5/125 he's owed if he was a free agent this offseason.
    Definitely, especially considering what they spent those savings on and the production they've gotten at 2B since.

    But I'm calling BS on that. I don't believe for a second that Cano leaves $40MM guaranteed on the table.

  20. #4170
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Definitely, especially considering what they spent those savings on and the production they've gotten at 2B since.

    But I'm calling BS on that. I don't believe for a second that Cano leaves $40MM guaranteed on the table.
    Here's the caveat to that, did he know at that point he'd be getting that extra $40mm?

  21. #4171
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Here's the caveat to that, did he know at that point he'd be getting that extra $40mm?
    Who knows.

    I don't blame the Yanks for not giving Cano 10 years.

    I do blame them for turning around and throwing away the money on Ellsbury.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  22. #4172

    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Who knows.

    I don't blame the Yanks for not giving Cano 10 years.

    I do blame them for turning around and throwing away the money on Ellsbury.
    I am in this boat. Though if Cano would have done 8/200 then the Yanks screwed up. I would not have done 10 years.
    What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

  23. #4173

    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    I suppose. The only news at hand is that Cashman has come out and said he's done. I'm discussing that. I think going into the season with the team as is, is a bad idea. This is a great season to chance some things. We aren't taking advantage of that.

    You have something else you want to discuss?
    Nope. I agree that this is the year to take some chances. High risk, high reward.

  24. #4174

    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    I am in this boat. Though if Cano would have done 8/200 then the Yanks screwed up. I would not have done 10 years.
    Would you have done 8/235 for Cano?

  25. #4175

    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    The past is the past, Yankees are set up for a very bright future, no point bringing up 2014 off season anymore as really only one of those remain and when the Yankees are a good team again only one will be remaining (maybe) as they will likely move or release the other

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