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  1. #2976
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    I agree, and said this several times prior to the deal being reached. They should have given him a clause that includes a cash bonus if he gets traded that gets smaller as time goes on, e.g. $2MM if traded year 1, $1.5MM if traded year 2, $1MM if traded year 3... nothing after that. Something along those lines, to retain the flexibility to deal him whenever/wherever. It reduces the odds he gets traded (if that's truly what "family guy" Chapman wants) or at least gives him a nice payout if he does.
    I agree with this, but I doubt he takes it in his situation. Which is cool for those that don't want him in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Chapman got a couple of months vacation in Chicago, and walked away with a WS ring and a ~$500k share of the winnings. Oh noes!!!1!
    This is a strawman though - Chapman was signing a multi year deal so if he was dealt at the next deadline it wouldn't be a couple of months, it's be multiple years. The NTC is protection against that. Not everyone can be as "lucky" as Andrew Miller, who got dealt with multiple years left to a team helmed by one of his favorite people in the world.

    I also agree with the general thought that NTCs are essentially irrelevant at this level (3 years, elite talent, sub-$20 million AAV).
    Jaret Wright's 2005 Cy Young Season: 20-3, 3.04 ERA

  2. #2977

    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Profar was an absolute monster prospect coming up. The #1 type talk was well-deserved. Would still love to get him now..

  3. #2978
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Snatch Catch View Post
    I also agree with the general thought that NTCs are essentially irrelevant at this level (3 years, elite talent, sub-$20 million AAV).
    I'm not following here.

  4. #2979
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    I'm not following here.
    I think that if they're at the point of wanting to deal, there will be a fairly easy agreement for the waiver of the clause. There's almost always a mutual acceptance once an elite talent on a non-albatross contract starts feeling the trade winds blowing.

    I don't see the NTC as anything more than aesthetics and a guarantee against the 0.01% chance that an opposing GM gets drunk and offers his entire farm for Chapman next July because he wants someone to teach him Spanish and then tour Havana. Otherwise getting dealt to a contender in a year or two would eventually happen if the Yankees made it clear they wanted to move on, IMO.
    Jaret Wright's 2005 Cy Young Season: 20-3, 3.04 ERA

  5. #2980
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Snatch Catch View Post
    I agree with this, but I doubt he takes it in his situation. Which is cool for those that don't want him in the first place.
    why? I don't have any inside knowledge, but what we know about Chapman doesn't lead me to believe that planting roots for his family is all that compelling or motivating. Sure, he'll take it but my guess is it is more about control, which can lead to money. Why not just show him the money via a clause like I laid out? And I said in those prior posts if he insists on NTC, have fun in Miami.



    This is a strawman though - Chapman was signing a multi year deal so if he was dealt at the next deadline it wouldn't be a couple of months, it's be multiple years. The NTC is protection against that. Not everyone can be as "lucky" as Andrew Miller, who got dealt with multiple years left to a team helmed by one of his favorite people in the world.

    I also agree with the general thought that NTCs are essentially irrelevant at this level (3 years, elite talent, sub-$20 million AAV).
    I wasn't saying it was an identical scenario. Just using what transpired in his recent trade scenario as an example. I'm guessing if he had 2 years left on his prior deal he'd be miserable playing for the Cubs for example.

  6. #2981

    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Trade idea who says no first. Jorge Mateo and Justice Sheffield for Joey Gallo?

  7. #2982
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabbate21 View Post
    Trade idea who says no first. Jorge Mateo and Justice Sheffield for Joey Gallo?
    I wouldn't trade Sheffield alone for Gallo.

  8. #2983

    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Too much for Gallo. The Yankees should avoid trading away LHPs when possible.

  9. #2984
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    I agree, and said this several times prior to the deal being reached. They should have given him a clause that includes a cash bonus if he gets traded that gets smaller as time goes on, e.g. $2MM if traded year 1, $1.5MM if traded year 2, $1MM if traded year 3... nothing after that. Something along those lines, to retain the flexibility to deal him whenever/wherever. It reduces the odds he gets traded (if that's truly what "family guy" Chapman wants) or at least gives him a nice payout if he does.

    Chapman got a couple of months vacation in Chicago, and walked away with a WS ring and a ~$500k share of the winnings. Oh noes!!!1!

    Chapman was traded twice within a few months last year. He wanted the protection that he isn't moving for at least 3 years. I would guess-timate that he wanted full NTC protection for all 5 years, and it was negotiated down to 3 full, a 2 with partial protection.

  10. #2985
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabbate21 View Post
    Trade idea who says no first. Jorge Mateo and Justice Sheffield for Joey Gallo?
    Yankees hang up the phone. Quickly.

  11. #2986
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mbn007 View Post
    Chapman was traded twice within a few months last year. He wanted the protection that he isn't moving for at least 3 years. I would guess-timate that he wanted full NTC protection for all 5 years, and it was negotiated down to 3 full, a 2 with partial protection.
    I don't understand why NTC is such a problem. Chapman saw Miller traded away. He wants a little security and really can't trust the Yankees to keep him without a NTC

  12. #2987
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mbn007 View Post
    Chapman was traded twice within a few months last year. He wanted the protection that he isn't moving for at least 3 years. I would guess-timate that he wanted full NTC protection for all 5 years, and it was negotiated down to 3 full, a 2 with partial protection.
    Clearly he wanted the NTC, and anyone in his position would. I'm just speculating (and that's all it is) that the reason he wanted the NTC has less to do with resistance to relocation than it does wanting the real financial value of having the NTC (as a negotiation chip). I certainly don't know that they didn't try this, but if I'm the Yankees I try to give him that financial value up front in real terms via financial bonuses that kick in if he's traded. My guess is that the Yankees didn't want to pay to retain that trade flexibility. Moving for multi-millionaires isn't nearly as laborious as for the average joe. And I could be wrong, but I think his family is in Florida, who tried to sign him, and he passed... given that and last offseason's well documented events, he doesn't strike me as a guy who is leery of trades because of the impacts to his family. My take was and is that if he wouldn't accept that as a form of protection (and incentive) that I'd have pushed away.

    Quote Originally Posted by ymike673 View Post
    I don't understand why NTC is such a problem. Chapman saw Miller traded away. He wants a little security and really can't trust the Yankees to keep him without a NTC
    In my view, he's an expensive luxury item now. If he does well but the team struggles to come up the rebuild curve, he serves no purpose. I'd have rather the Yankees retained the flexibility to trade him again if an ideal situation arose like last year, assuming they are not contending during the prime years of this deal.

  13. #2988
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabbate21 View Post
    Trade idea who says no first. Jorge Mateo and Justice Sheffield for Joey Gallo?
    Wouldn't trade either of those guys straight up for Gallo and I actually like Gallo. Rangers just completely pissed on his value.

  14. #2989
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Clearly he wanted the NTC, and anyone in his position would. I'm just speculating (and that's all it is) that the reason he wanted the NTC has less to do with resistance to relocation than it does wanting the real financial value of having the NTC (as a negotiation chip). I certainly don't know that they didn't try this, but if I'm the Yankees I try to give him that financial value up front in real terms via financial bonuses that kick in if he's traded. My guess is that the Yankees didn't want to pay to retain that trade flexibility. Moving for multi-millionaires isn't nearly as laborious as for the average joe. And I could be wrong, but I think his family is in Florida, who tried to sign him, and he passed... given that and last offseason's well documented events, he doesn't strike me as a guy who is leery of trades because of the impacts to his family. My take was and is that if he wouldn't accept that as a form of protection (and incentive) that I'd have pushed away.

    In my view, he's an expensive luxury item now. If he does well but the team struggles to come up the rebuild curve, he serves no purpose. I'd have rather the Yankees retained the flexibility to trade him again if an ideal situation arose like last year, assuming they are not contending during the prime years of this deal.
    In that circumstance Yankees would still have Betances to trade and I am sure he could also bring high level prospects in trade

  15. #2990
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nnysiny View Post
    Too much for Gallo. The Yankees should avoid trading away LHPs when possible.
    I'd do Mateo for Profar.

  16. #2991

    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Wonder what the Nats would be interested in giving up for Betances...


  17. #2992
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jcarey View Post
    Wonder what the Nats would be interested in giving up for Betances...
    They don't have the farm for Betances.

  18. #2993
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    I'd do Mateo for Profar.

    Sign me up!! I would do that in a heartbeat. However, from the Rangers point of view, they are in the same situation with Mateo as with Profar.

  19. #2994
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jcarey View Post
    Wonder what the Nats would be interested in giving up for Betances...
    It has to start with Turner, and that will be a no-go for Rizzo.

  20. #2995
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ymike673 View Post
    In that circumstance Yankees would still have Betances to trade and I am sure he could also bring high level prospects in trade
    I wonder if this factored into the Chapman signing? If they're out of it come July they can extract a big package for Betances given he's not a free agent next year. Having Chapman in the fold makes it easier for Cashman to convince Hal to pull the trigger.

  21. #2996
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mbn007 View Post
    Sign me up!! I would do that in a heartbeat. However, from the Rangers point of view, they are in the same situation with Mateo as with Profar.
    Not at all. They can keep Mateo in the minors. Profar is likely running out of mL options, on top of that their infield is full, so they'll need to keep him in the OF where his bat is less valuable.

  22. #2997
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jcarey View Post
    Wonder what the Nats would be interested in giving up for Betances...
    Robles would be a good starting point.

  23. #2998
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    Robles would be a good starting point.
    I wouldn't take their top 5 for Betances and no way Rizzo gives them up. I need prospects dominating AA.

    http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2016?list=was

  24. #2999

    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mbn007 View Post
    It has to start with Turner, and that will be a no-go for Rizzo.
    Turner had 3.3 fWAR in only half a season last year, can play CF/SS, isn't even arb eligible until 2020. It would take Betances plus something pretty good to get him.

  25. #3000
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    Re: 2016 Winter Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ymike673 View Post
    In that circumstance Yankees would still have Betances to trade and I am sure he could also bring high level prospects in trade
    Sure, but in the circumstances I outlined they'd have both to trade, or still have a closer if they traded either one.

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