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  1. #26
    Attorney at Bird Law Bronson'sCornrows's Avatar
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    Re: MLB Strike Zone Changing / No More IBB

    Quote Originally Posted by SatchelPaigeYankee View Post
    this is terrible for the sinkerballers and slider-throwers
    They might all just start doing what Porcello has been trying the last season and a half, somewhat successfully; get ahead with sinkers at the top of the knees, then get them to chase high heat once ahead. There used to be a time where that was very common, but as the strike zone lowers, there's less risk in simply pouring sinkers and sliders in at the knee bottoms.

    I'm all for it provided the strike zone also gets corrected up. During the time period the bottom of the strike zone expanded, the top disappeared. For a few years, they weren't calling anything above the belt, which is ridiculous. Call just underneath the letters to the tops of the knees and I have no problem with this.

  2. #27
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    Re: MLB Strike Zone Changing / No More IBB

    Exactly my point, force the umpires to call it right vs. changing the rules. The ironic part is that it may make the games longer by extending the at bats or helping the offense.

  3. #28
    crescat scientia awy's Avatar
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    Re: MLB Strike Zone Changing / No More IBB

    both changes are to inject more action into the game.

    i don't think the solution to long and sluggish games is to depress offense with the low zone and grounder after grounder games. people want to see offense and scoring produces drama.
    always reasonable

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  4. #29
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    Re: MLB Strike Zone Changing / No More IBB

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    both changes are to inject more action into the game.

    i don't think the solution to long and sluggish games is to depress offense with the low zone and grounder after grounder games. people want to see offense and scoring produces drama.
    It makes more sense to eliminate the intentional walk altogether than it does to eliminate having to throw four pitches.

  5. #30

    Re: MLB Strike Zone Changing / No More IBB

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    Or this classic from the '72 World Series:

    https://youtu.be/xw0w9rhNtCk
    I can't complain but sometimes I still do. - Joe Walsh

  6. #31

    Re: MLB Strike Zone Changing / No More IBB

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    It makes more sense to eliminate the intentional walk altogether than it does to eliminate having to throw four pitches.
    Many would agree with you, but it cannot be enforced.

    Nothing can stop a pitcher from throwing two pitchouts and two unhittable pitches. Many pitchers walked Bonds, etc... by nibbling outside of the strike zone, trying to get him to chase a bad pitch. Although it didn't go down as an intentional walk, that's the way it was designed.
    It won't be long before we can all forget Cano and realize that Castro can be everything Robinson was for us. - Retired_Doc

  7. #32
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    Re: MLB Strike Zone Changing / No More IBB

    Quote Originally Posted by melon View Post
    Many would agree with you, but it cannot be enforced.

    Nothing can stop a pitcher from throwing two pitchouts and two unhittable pitches. Many pitchers walked Bonds, etc... by nibbling outside of the strike zone, trying to get him to chase a bad pitch. Although it didn't go down as an intentional walk, that's the way it was designed.
    I was pointing out the absurdity to removing pitches from the IBB. Of course you can't enforce it.

    What I know is if you remove having to throw four pitches, you're only going to have more intentional passes issued.

    Nobody gives a crap about Bryce Harper getting a free pass, and writing rules that encourage said passes, is foolish.

    If they're serious about shortening the length of games, you do it by putting an advertisement on their hats or wherever and eliminate 50% of the commercials. No commercials in between half innings. Boom. Your game's length is reduced by 20 minutes.

  8. #33
    Do not vex me mortal Hitman23's Avatar
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    Re: MLB Strike Zone Changing / No More IBB

    I would never support advertisements on uniforms or hats. I don't want to see nascar drivers on the field.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman23 View Post
    I would never support advertisements on uniforms or hats. I don't want to see nascar drivers on the field.
    I agree. That "Play Ball" promotion they had last weekend was too much for me.

  10. #35
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    Re: MLB Strike Zone Changing / No More IBB

    Let's list the reasons why nixing the four pitch intentional walk is a terrible idea...

    - It ignores pitch count.
    - Absolves the defense of having to successfully complete four plays in order to award the base.
    - Wild pitch/passed ball?
    - It's still a live play
    - Baserunners? Entice a balk? Steal a base?
    - ...?
    - ...?

    The bottom line is they're altering fundamental rules within the game of baseball, and in my opinion that's not the way to go about shortening a ball game. I mean, why have 3 outs? Why not 2?


    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman23 View Post
    I would never support advertisements on uniforms or hats. I don't want to see nascar drivers on the field.
    I agree that advertising ideally has no place within the sanctity of a baseball diamond, but...it's coming. Only a matter of time, and from that perspective I'm offering a way to shave time off the game (No break between the 1/2 inning change).

  11. #36
    crescat scientia awy's Avatar
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    Re: MLB Strike Zone Changing / No More IBB

    with the changing habits of media consumption if they think they can get more revenue with a internet streaming service they don't really need to advertise except for the biggest games on national tv. but then again those are the ones driving the perception of a slow game.

    i don't really see the breaks as the problem. it's rather the lack of action and intensity in a lot of games.
    always reasonable

    Aaron Judge Career Homer #8
    http://m.mlb.com/video/v1294788283/s...-to-deep-right

  12. #37
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    Re: MLB Strike Zone Changing / No More IBB

    Quote Originally Posted by awy View Post
    with the changing habits of media consumption if they think they can get more revenue with a internet streaming service they don't really need to advertise except for the biggest games on national tv. but then again those are the ones driving the perception of a slow game.

    i don't really see the breaks as the problem. it's rather the lack of action and intensity in a lot of games.
    You bring up an astute observation re: streaming. You may very well be able to utilize virtual advertising on uniforms, etc, not unlike what you're seeing behind home plate on TV.

    As to the latter point: you're not going to increase action by making it easier (less risk) to give a free pass to the opposing team's best hitters. Baseball's not for everybody. Some people like big, bouncy boobies. Others appreciate the beauty inside of a woman. I think baseball fan is more of the latter in my bastardized parallel.

  13. #38
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    Re: MLB Strike Zone Changing / No More IBB

    In 1964 teams used about 2.5 pitchers per game, that number is up to almost 4 per game now. That's three extra pitching changes per game. Further, I would be willing to bet that because of commercials, the break in action is also longer during pitching changes than it used to be. Not to mention all the mound visits that accompany each change. For me, nothing drags a game longer than 2-3 pitchers coming in within an inning or two.

    I don't know what could be done to deal with that, I don't like forcing pitchers to pitch to multiple batters which is a suggestion I read elsewhere. Maybe reducing the number of warm up pitches? Force a pitcher to get almost completely warmed up before coming into the game? I don't know what's feasible or how to fix it, but the last few innings of a game, which should be the most exciting part, can be a real drag sometimes.

  14. #39

    Re: MLB Strike Zone Changing / No More IBB

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    these are great

  15. #40

    Re: MLB Strike Zone Changing / No More IBB

    What would generate more offense is a consistent strike zone. And that can only be achieved by replacing the human eye with technology.

    Sure, the really, really good control pitchers would benefit as well, but, in most cases, it would benefit the hitters. It would eliminate so much of the uncertainty a hitter has to deal with, that offensive numbers would absolutely explode.

    Quote Originally Posted by CalYankeeFan View Post
    I guess what bothers me most about the strike zone is the reason it's being changed. Its not to benefit the pitchers or batters, generate offense, reduce gametime or anything about the game itself. It is because the umpires can't get it right, or be consistent.


    "At the knee" is pretty clear, and I don't believe raising the zone because the umpires have taken to calling strikes below the knee fixes the real problem.
    The real problem being that it's impossible to tell exactly where the ball crossed the plate, on a consistent basis. It can't be done. Pitchers constantly change speeds, there's all kinds of movement on the ball, and human sight wasn't built for that kind of precise depth perception.

    All the umps can do is guess (and use clues, like where the catcher caught the ball).

  16. #41

    Re: MLB Strike Zone Changing / No More IBB

    As for the IBB rule, I agree with it, for two reasons:

    1. Banning the intentional walk wouldn't stop pitchers from intentionally walking people...they'd just have to do it by throwing off the plate on purpose. And the safest place to throw a ball without making the catcher leave the box to catch it, is about neck high, right down the middle. Are you guys sure that's what you want? Four 95mph fastballs buzzing Bryce Harper's head every time he gets intentionally walked?

    And that's when the pitcher doesn't decide to just make it a one pitch intentional walk.

    2. Yes, interesting things can happen during an intentional walk. But interesting things could happen during a lot of very, very boring activities. If all else fails, there could be a meteor strike. That, by itself, isn't a reason to do something boring. In general, watching an intentional walk is boring. I'd rather spend that time watching the next at bat: odds are there's going to be a lot more interesting things happening during that, than during the four pitch IBB.

  17. #42

    Re: MLB Strike Zone Changing / No More IBB

    Quote Originally Posted by melon View Post
    I don't see the commercials having a big effect.

    In between innings, there's going to be down time and that's a natural time to have commercials. In fact, Manfred is experimenting with ideas that indirectly will cut down on commercial time- specifically limiting the number of pitchers in the late innings.

    Other sports actually have TV timeouts. When you go to an NFL game, you'll see action halted and players standing around sometimes, as the television watching public have to sit through added commercials. MLB doesn't do that.
    Exactly. You nailed it. I've seen so many time outs in football while the players stand around. Baseball has a very natural ending of each half inning to have commercial.

    Btw, no commercials no games on TV. There are no free lunches.
    “The only real game, I think, in the world is baseball.” - Babe Ruth

  18. #43

    Re: MLB Strike Zone Changing / No More IBB

    So it sounds like the IBB change is is official.

    The players' association has agreed to Major League Baseball's proposal to have intentional walks without pitches this year.

    While the union has resisted many of MLB's proposed innovations, players are willing to accept the intentional walk change.

    ''As part of a broader discussion with other moving pieces, the answer is yes,'' union head Tony Clark wrote Wednesday in an email to The Associated Press. ''There are details, as part of that discussion, that are still being worked through, however.''
    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mlb-pla...8857--mlb.html

  19. #44
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    Re: MLB Strike Zone Changing / No More IBB

    Great news. I was hoping to get the one minute a week back.
    That's our second Arby's in town. Some say it's better, the fries are curlier, though I wouldn't know. I'm loyal to the original.

  20. #45
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    Re: MLB Strike Zone Changing / No More IBB

    What will they do with MLB Network's show, Intentional Talk?
    If money is a science, then it is a dark science...it has gone on developing...by its own rules. Neal Stephenson, Quicksilver

  21. #46
    Do not vex me mortal Hitman23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    What will they do with MLB Network's show, Intentional Talk?
    nice. Very nice.

  22. #47
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    Re: MLB Strike Zone Changing / No More IBB

    Tim Marchman, over at Deadspin nails it as far as I'm concerned.
    If money is a science, then it is a dark science...it has gone on developing...by its own rules. Neal Stephenson, Quicksilver

  23. #48

    Re: MLB Strike Zone Change / No More 4-Pitch IBB

    Quote Originally Posted by CalYankeeFan View Post
    NOTE: I tried clarifying the title to indicate eliminating the need for 4 pitches on the IBB, but it's not working.

    https://www.yahoo.com/sports/blogs/m...003454802.html



    I don't like either change. The umpires should call it as the rule is written now.

    I don't like the free pass either. Crazy things happen and its being eliminated to save what? 2-3 minutes a game?
    Actually, it saves an average of 24 seconds a game. It is so overblown. At least make the pitcher throw one pitch outside. So now what, the coach just gives a first base sign from the dugout to the ump? Or does he go out to the ump which would take more time. This is dumb. Hate this rule change.

  24. #49
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    Re: MLB Strike Zone Changing / No More IBB

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    I agree that advertising ideally has no place within the sanctity of a baseball diamond, but...it's coming. Only a matter of time, and from that perspective I'm offering a way to shave time off the game (No break between the 1/2 inning change).
    Are you saying no breaks between at bats or no breaks between the away AB and the home AB? The latter actually disadvantages the away team.

    The real issue here is the length of the break - I have no idea what it used to be, but I would guess that back in the sixties when TV coverage really started to take off, it was 90 seconds - now it is 2 minutes and 20 seconds or something like that. An extra 50 seconds times 18 breaks (2 per inning) adds 900 seconds or 15 minutes to the game right there.

    I would have absolutely no problem with the idea of TV having a banner (I don't know what else to call it) shrinking the size of the screen and allowing advertising during the AB - heck, we all know that most viewers don't pay attention to the between innings advertisements or channel surf anyway.
    Forgive me for taking the Contrarian view

  25. #50

    Re: MLB Strike Zone Changing / No More IBB

    ^^^ The way I see it, commercials are how the local and national networks are able offer these lucrative deals to the MLB teams.

    Cut down the commercial time, and the television/radio stations will reduce the money paid to the teams. Then, the teams will end up having a lower payroll.

    The above is just theory, but I have a hard seeing how either the MLBPA or the owners will go for it.
    It won't be long before we can all forget Cano and realize that Castro can be everything Robinson was for us. - Retired_Doc

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