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  1. #3301

    Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    More bullsh!t. Seriously-- what is your problem?

    Are you incapable of telling the truth?

    Do you have a medical condition that prevents you from having an honest dialog?
    I asked you a question. You could answer it or not. You keep whining about honesty when you enter into virtually every one of these conversations with the intent to argue around what it is you want to say.

    And then you have a meltdown when you fail at it.

  2. #3302

    Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

    Haha sorry, Maynerd. You keep slipping your edicts in while I'm typing.

  3. #3303

    Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Gregorius Chant View Post
    I asked you a question. You could answer it or not. You keep whining about honesty when you enter into virtually every one of these conversations with the intent to argue around what it is you want to say.

    And then you have a meltdown when you fail at it.
    I cannot state my position more clearly.

    That you insist on dodging, misrepresenting, lying and taking things out of context is not my problem. You're either incapable or unwilling to comprehend what has been said. The reason these things get shut down is because of the constant repetition of having to explain to you the same things over and over and over again.

    Maybe it's simple trolling. Maybe it's a learning disability. I don't know.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners.

  4. #3304

    Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Gregorius Chant View Post
    No one has argued opposite. It's the word "racism" vs "prejudice". I"m with those who believe the former has meaning tied into power. The idea isn't that any one person can't be hateful towards another. You're quite right in your last statement, however what Coffee has been arguing on and off is that all racism is equal. He doesn't believe there are any systems in place rigged against POC and women, nor that white males have advantages as a result of those systems.

    That's always been the crux of his arguments on this subject.



  5. #3305
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    So then not treating people equally.
    Absolutely. And?

  6. #3306

    Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I think people should be treated the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    So we agree on this:

    White person who hates black people = racist

    Black person who hates white people = racist

    Man who hates women = sexist

    Woman who hates men = sexist
    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    No, not really.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    So then not treating people equally.
    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Absolutely. And?

  7. #3307
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    If not based on hatred, why do they endure? I'd contend it's based in ignorance, but would welcome your insight.
    Lots of ways. Deep, deep intergenerational economic disparities, that in turn are attributed to each generation's supposed lack of drive and ambition. These extend into housing and education and health and pretty much every aspect of life. Many unconscious attitudes, not based on hatred but on implicit bias, anxiety or stereotypes or whatever, such that equally-qualified blacks get jobs or apartments at far lower rates than whites. Yes,those training manuals and policies in police departments. The fact that whites generally don't have to think about being white, where blacks generally are not permitted to forget it. That's a scratch on the surface.

  8. #3308
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    So what is the point you've been striving so mightily to make?

  9. #3309

    Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    So what is the point you've been striving so mightily to make?
    Why don't you go back and read it?

  10. #3310

    Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    Why don't you go back and read it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gregorius Chant View Post
    I asked you a question. You could answer it or not. You keep whining about honesty when you enter into virtually every one of these conversations with the intent to argue around what it is you want to say.

    And then you have a meltdown when you fail at it.
    Of course.

  11. #3311
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    Why don't you go back and read it?
    White people dislike black people and black people dislike white people?

  12. #3312

    Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Gregorius Chant View Post
    Of course.
    Get back to me on these from just the last two pages and I'll answer your seriously dumb question. Deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    What's your opinion?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    Can't be what? Strange that you cut it off right there.

    Are you seriously trying yet again to pretend we're discussing 'prejudiced' instead of 'racist'?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    Now explain why the black guy who professes to hate white people and goes on to kill three white people isn't racist. If that's not an example of a black person being racist, what is?

  13. #3313

    Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    White people dislike black people and black people dislike white people?
    Yeah that was it John. Good job.

    We'll just forget about the contradictory statements and move on.

  14. #3314
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    Yeah that was it John. Good job.

    We'll just forget about the contradictory statements and move on.
    I'm listening. That is, I'm listening if the discussion is about racism. If it's about GC's posts, not so much.

  15. #3315

    Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I'm listening. That is, I'm listening if the discussion is about racism. If it's about GC's posts, not so much.
    I'll spell it out-- You made two opposing statements and you're asking me what point I'm trying to make. It isn't me who needs to clarify his position.

  16. #3316
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    I'll spell it out-- You made two opposing statements and you're asking me what point I'm trying to make. It isn't me who needs to clarify his position.
    Ah. When you said "not treating people equally," I thought you were referring to the haters in your scenarios treating people differently out of racial animosity, and I was agreeing to that.


    Yes, I said that people should not be treated differently. I'm not searching back for the post, but whether in that one or another, I added that people are treated differently, and that that's often not a matter of individual attitudes. Do I ever treat people differently? Sure. There are plenty of times when I'll talk to a black person differently than I'd talk to a white person, especially if we're talking about race, because I know they've had a very different experience from me by virtue of being black. Not that all blacks have the exact same experience, not that that person's experience consists only in being black; but that it's an important factor that underlies any discussion. There are lots of ways I might treat people differently in my interactions with them. That's because, while I believe people should not be treated differently, I'd be a damn fool to pretend that they haven't been treated differently their whole lives, and that that hasn't become an important part of who they are, and if I just stop talking about it, it will go away. I prefer to live in reality.

    Also: Really? After the dozens or hundreds of posts I've written on the subject, saying the same thing over and over, you're going to play gotcha (incorrectly) with two isolated quotes and think you've somehow made a significant point?
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  17. #3317

    Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Ah. When you said "not treating people equally," I thought you were referring to the haters in your scenarios treating people differently out of racial animosity, and I was agreeing to that.


    Yes, I said that people should not be treated differently. I'm not searching back for the post, but whether in that one or another, I added that people are treated differently, and that that's often not a matter of individual attitudes. Do I ever treat people differently? Sure. There are plenty of times when I'll talk to a black person differently than I'd talk to a white person, especially if we're talking about race, because I know they've had a very different experience from me by virtue of being black. Not that all blacks have the exact same experience, not that that person's experience consists only in being black; but that it's an important factor that underlies any discussion. There are lots of ways I might treat people differently in my interactions with them. That's because, while I believe people should not be treated differently, I'd be a damn fool to pretend that they haven't been treated differently their whole lives, and that that hasn't become an important part of who they are, and if I just stop talking about it, it will go away. I prefer to live in reality.

    Also: Really? After the dozens or hundreds of posts I've written on the subject, saying the same thing over and over, you're going to play gotcha (incorrectly) with two isolated quotes and think you've somehow made a significant point?
    I wasn't playing gotcha. I wasn't trying to make a point.

    I simply asked for clarification.

    I don't understand the defensiveness.

  18. #3318
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
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    Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Do I ever treat people differently? Sure. There are plenty of times when I'll talk to a black person differently than I'd talk to a white person, especially if we're talking about race, because I know they've had a very different experience from me by virtue of being black. Not that all blacks have the exact same experience, not that that person's experience consists only in being black; but that it's an important factor that underlies any discussion.
    I talk with my black friends absolutely the same way as I do my white friends. I'll be honest, though.....I don't talk with them about race (black or white). I find someone's race to be an insignificant demographic. Race is more obvious than if someone is Catholic, Protestant, or something else, but like their religion or their ancestry, not a factor in my assessment of the person, nor a subject of casual conversation.


    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3
    ....and if I just stop talking about it, it will go away.
    But, isn't it true that if you keep talking about it, it won't ever go away? When you talk with someone who is white, I doubt the conversation turns to whiteness. Why should the conversation turn to race when talking with a POC? If you found yourself in a room with Ronald Torreyes, would you steer the conversation toward the mole?

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
    - President Barack Obama

  19. #3319
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coffee View Post
    I wasn't playing gotcha. I wasn't trying to make a point.

    I simply asked for clarification.

    I don't understand the defensiveness.
    It's not defensiveness, it's frustration. Forest v. trees. Forest v. individual leaves fallen on the ground near the trees.


    You really needed clarification about my thinking at this point?
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  20. #3320

    Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    It's not defensiveness, it's frustration. Forest v. trees. Forest v. individual leaves fallen on the ground near the trees.

    You really needed clarification about my thinking at this point?
    No, we all know each other so well that conversation is unnecessary.

    You posted two statements that were seemingly at odds with each other. I asked for clarification.

    If that is frustrating to you, I don't know what to tell you.

  21. #3321

    Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

    Interesting........

    The Age of Trump Is Producing More Black Gun Owners

    Source: NBC News

    When Lesley Green was a little girl in Houston, Texas in the 1960s just a few decades after the routine lynchings of blacks in the South her father would go off to work a late-night shift and leave a gun and a pile of bullets behind. Nobody ever came looking. But even as an 11-year-old, learning to shoot a gun she could barely lift, Green said she recognized the important lesson her father was teaching her about being black in America: it's a dangerous world out there, and neither the government nor the police are likely be there to save you if trouble decides to make a visit.

    Jones said that since the election he's seen about a three- or four-fold increase in African-Americans coming to his shop to buy firearms. Most of them are black women, he said, followed by senior citizens, younger people and college students. Many of them have also joined black gun clubs and the African-American gun association. Jones said that on a good day his chapter of the NAAGA can get as many as five to 10 inquiries about joining.

    "We're seeing people in the African-American and the LGBTQ community coming in and asking questions and they want to learn how to shoot, and then purchase a firearm and then get a license in order to carry it," Cargill said. "It's different this time, versus when President Obama was in office. Back then, people were saying, 'Hey, I heard this was going to be banned, I want one of those,' without any research at all. Now people are doing their research and making informed decisions."

    Cargill and other black gun dealers say they haven't suffered from the so-called "Trump Slump" that other sellers have. He credits his bump in sales as "directly related to the current administration."

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/a...owners-n758211
    Loving some nothing burgers!!!

  22. #3322
    NYYF Legend

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    Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

    As somebody who has great experience in dealing with a jury during a criminal proceeding, I do not know why I am shocked when a jury came back with a not guilty verdict in the trial of a Tulsa Officer Betty Shelby. But yet I am and I think it is a sad day for Law Enforcement, and especially the United States as a whole, when an Officer can so recklessly perform their job, causing someone to lose their life, and in the end "get away with it." As someone who has been in Law Enforcement for 27 years, I was disgusted when I saw her interview on 60 Minutes last month where she blamed the death of Terrence Crutcher on himself and she stated that any Officer in Law Enforcement would have done what she had done. Just because someone is impaired, they does mean that deadly force can be used. Just because someone does not follow commands, does not mean that deadly force can be used. Just because someone reaches into their vehicle, does not mean that deadly force can be used. And with several other Officers present, it is shocking to me when another even used a Taser, that Shelby alone decided to use deadly force because she feared for her life. And how a jury seeing and hearing all these facts can come to the conclusion that she was not guilty is so far beyond the realm of rational comprehension.


    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/betty-sh...-manslaughter/

  23. #3323
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

    Quote Originally Posted by 2JAY View Post
    As somebody who has great experience in dealing with a jury during a criminal proceeding, I do not know why I am shocked when a jury came back with a not guilty verdict in the trial of a Tulsa Officer Betty Shelby. But yet I am and I think it is a sad day for Law Enforcement, and especially the United States as a whole, when an Officer can so recklessly perform their job, causing someone to lose their life, and in the end "get away with it." As someone who has been in Law Enforcement for 27 years, I was disgusted when I saw her interview on 60 Minutes last month where she blamed the death of Terrence Crutcher on himself and she stated that any Officer in Law Enforcement would have done what she had done. Just because someone is impaired, they does mean that deadly force can be used. Just because someone does not follow commands, does not mean that deadly force can be used. Just because someone reaches into their vehicle, does not mean that deadly force can be used. And with several other Officers present, it is shocking to me when another even used a Taser, that Shelby alone decided to use deadly force because she feared for her life. And how a jury seeing and hearing all these facts can come to the conclusion that she was not guilty is so far beyond the realm of rational comprehension.


    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/betty-sh...-manslaughter/

    I've been meaning to thank you for this excellent post. On the one hand, police officers often tend to defend the actions of other cops, stressing the split-second, life-and-death decisions that have to be made in ambiguous situations, and which civilians really can't understand at all. That's entirely appropriate. On the other hand, I've always assumed that, when there's a cop with legitimately bad judgment, other cops won't want that person on the force, because he or she escalates situations unnecessarily and puts their lives at greater danger.


    Jury selection has begun in the trial of Jeronimo Yanez for the shooting of Philando Castile. I'm interested to see what happens there.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  24. #3324
    Not fooling anyone. Soriambi's Avatar
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    Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Jury selection has begun in the trial of Jeronimo Yanez for the shooting of Philando Castile. I'm interested to see what happens there.
    Spoiler alert: not guilty.
    -Kevin

    "My point is you can't compare things with statistics." Joe Morgan


    "I'd have won that trial. I've often said that." Stephen A. Smith on the OJ Simpson trial

    RIP, Pete.

  25. #3325

    Re: Another day, another mass shooting in America

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/14/politi...ing/index.html

    Rep. Steve Scalise was shot in Alexandria, Virginia, Wednesday morning, Rep. Mo Brooks told CNN.

    Brooks said he was on deck at a practice for the congressional baseball team when the shooting occurred. Scalise, the majority whip, appeared to have been shot in the hip and it appeared two Capitol Hill police agents were shot, he added.

    Brooks said there were a number of congressmen and congressional staffers lying on the ground, and at least one of them was wounded. The Alabama Republican said he used his belt as a tourniquet to help one of the victims.

    He said the shooter appeared to be a white male but added that "I saw him for a second or two." He said the shooter was behind the third base dugout and didn't say anything.

    "The gun was a semiautomatic," Brooks said. "It continued to fire at different people. You can imagine, all the people on the field scatter."

    Alexandria police said earlier Wednesday they were responding to a "multiple shooting" in the city. The tweet also said the suspect is in custody.

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