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  1. #16951
    Rawger in Jawge's Bawx ArodEra's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by ajra21 View Post
    i wonder how much of the ellsbury contract was the owners not wanting to look like they were taking a step back when cano left? it could be none at all but something tells me cashman wouldn't have given him 7 years on his own. but who knows?
    ajra, anytime Cashman doesn't approve of a signing, he's NEVER been shy to say so publicly. Never, ever. Why would he stop now? Don't forget, this is the same man who publicly announced he was against Rafael Soriano's signing........on the very same day as his official "welcoming" presser!



  2. #16952
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    That's classic Cashman. Cover himself, throw others under the bus when possible.

    I don't even have an issue with not wanting to trade Refsnyder. The issue is not wanting to trade him AND not wanting him to play in the majors.
    This! What good did it to to hang on to him only to staple him to the bench for a month in deference to Brendan Ryan and Stephen Drew? And before anyone blames Girardi for that, I'm sorry, but the GM has the ultimate say in the handling of prospects. If he doesn't, then that is just another example of incompetence.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  3. #16953

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    That couldn't be further from the reality.
    There are a lot lf myths out there about Tommy John surgery. Yours is just one of them.

    I invite you to go over to Hard Ball Times and argue with Jon Roegele, who's done the latest research on the subject.

    http://www.hardballtimes.com/tommy-j...in-the-majors/

  4. #16954
    NYYF Cy Young


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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by ArodEra View Post
    ajra, anytime Cashman doesn't approve of a signing, he's NEVER been shy to say so publicly. Never, ever. Why would he stop now? Don't forget, this is the same man who publicly announced he was against Rafael Soriano's signing........on the very same day as his official "welcoming" presser!
    Arodera - Wasn't Cashamn against the last sign of ARod when he opted out and it was George who step in and told him to do it? It seems like a century ago and I can't remember. But you are right on Ellsbury contract. What I don't like is many fans hold this contract against Ellsbury.... I just want him to get healthy, assign a personal trainer to him this off season, even send him to DR for Winter ball. We got him for 5 more years and we need him as leadoff.

  5. #16955
    Hello dum-dum... effdamets's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by bucky View Post
    Arodera - Wasn't Cashamn against the last sign of ARod when he opted out and it was George who step in and told him to do it? It seems like a century ago and I can't remember. But you are right on Ellsbury contract. What I don't like is many fans hold this contract against Ellsbury.... I just want him to get healthy, assign a personal trainer to him this off season, even send him to DR for Winter ball. We got him for 5 more years and we need him as leadoff.
    I thought it was Hank that brokered that deal?
    "Leave it to Yankees fans to be upset at having too many great players.Hitman23

  6. #16956
    It's a walkoff Mark19's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by effdamets View Post
    I thought it was Hank that brokered that deal?
    Well, let's not give Hank too much credit. Hank was the bluster behind wanting to make Alex come crawling back after the opt-out. It was Goldman Sachs who brokered the deal. No one likes to talk about it but they've been very significant players behind the scenes of the Yankees ownership.
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    Igawa: That's secret.


    "They should just practice during the regular season and show up for the playoffs -Ichiro on the Yankees

  7. #16957
    Hello dum-dum... effdamets's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark19 View Post
    Well, let's not give Hank too much credit. Hank was the bluster behind wanting to make Alex come crawling back after the opt-out. It was Goldman Sachs who brokered the deal. No one likes to talk about it but they've been very significant players behind the scenes of the Yankees ownership.
    Oh yeah.
    You think they still have influence?
    "Leave it to Yankees fans to be upset at having too many great players.Hitman23

  8. #16958
    Super Moderator matt2351's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    There are a lot lf myths out there about Tommy John surgery. Yours is just one of them.

    I invite you to go over to Hard Ball Times and argue with Jon Roegele, who's done the latest research on the subject.

    http://www.hardballtimes.com/tommy-j...in-the-majors/
    Thanks for posting this, Bill. I was going to do the same, but you beat me to it.

  9. #16959
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark19 View Post
    Well, let's not give Hank too much credit. Hank was the bluster behind wanting to make Alex come crawling back after the opt-out. It was Goldman Sachs who brokered the deal. No one likes to talk about it but they've been very significant players behind the scenes of the Yankees ownership.
    Hank was definitely behind facilitating the negotiations after they broke off when Cashman dared Boras not to opt out while Levine structured the contract with the asinine milestone bonus that they want no part of now.
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  10. #16960
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    There are a lot lf myths out there about Tommy John surgery. Yours is just one of them.

    I invite you to go over to Hard Ball Times and argue with Jon Roegele, who's done the latest research on the subject.

    www.hardballtimes.com/tommy-john-surgery-success-rates-in-the-majors/
    I knew you were going to bring up that crappy article. It's already been discussed how poorly that article is written. It doesn't take into account where a player was before the surgery, what other injuries were in play, what kind of success they had prior, what age they were when they had the surgery, ect...

    Name me 3 pitchers in the prime of their career who had dominant success (as Tanaka has), had TJ and never came back.

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  11. #16961
    time of my life ... ajra21's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by LongtimeNYYFan View Post
    I never understood why they wanted Ellsbury. I finally chalked it up to they just wanted to poke a stick in the Sox GM's eye.
    maybe

    Quote Originally Posted by ArodEra View Post
    ajra, anytime Cashman doesn't approve of a signing, he's NEVER been shy to say so publicly. Never, ever. Why would he stop now? Don't forget, this is the same man who publicly announced he was against Rafael Soriano's signing........on the very same day as his official "welcoming" presser!
    yep, i almost added that to my comment. though this has generally been since his last contract - prior to that, he toed the line more. now, the ellsbury deal seemed like the team felt they need to splash a little cash with cano leaving and he was the only option.
    Bring tea for the Tillerman; Steak for the son; Wine for the woman
    who made the rain come; Seagulls sing your hearts away;
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  12. #16962
    time of my life ... ajra21's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by bucky View Post
    Arodera - Wasn't Cashamn against the last sign of ARod when he opted out and it was George who step in and told him to do it? It seems like a century ago and I can't remember. But you are right on Ellsbury contract. What I don't like is many fans hold this contract against Ellsbury.... I just want him to get healthy, assign a personal trainer to him this off season, even send him to DR for Winter ball. We got him for 5 more years and we need him as leadoff.
    cashman was not for bringing him back.

    as for ellsbury, i'm not sure more baseball is the best thing for him. i also doubt a trainer makes a difference. the guy is in good shape - he's just more likely to pick up injuries compared to others. some guys are like that.
    Bring tea for the Tillerman; Steak for the son; Wine for the woman
    who made the rain come; Seagulls sing your hearts away;
    'Cause while the sinners sin, the children play ...

  13. #16963

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    That Arod contract has been the battlecry for the "it's all Hal's fault" crowd forever but has it really been that bad? Ellsbury and CC's extension look like they'll end up being worse. Lets not forget too that Cashman seemingly had no plan to replace Arod, so we might've ended up with the 3b version of Roberts/Drew which would've certainly meant no '09 championship. That makes me happy Hal overruled our little Napoleon GM.

  14. #16964
    Word of the Year is Complicit ojo's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    There are a lot lf myths out there about Tommy John surgery. Yours is just one of them.

    I invite you to go over to Hard Ball Times and argue with Jon Roegele, who's done the latest research on the subject.

    http://www.hardballtimes.com/tommy-j...in-the-majors/
    Good article, but the numbers get conflated because there are varied degrees of elbow injury that require the same TJS. Also, the fact that half never pitch more than 100 innings again? What's the contrition rate for pitchers without TJS? I'd wonder if it weren't similar.

  15. #16965
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricStuff View Post
    That Arod contract has been the battlecry for the "it's all Hal's fault" crowd forever but has it really been that bad? Ellsbury and CC's extension look like they'll end up being worse. Lets not forget too that Cashman seemingly had no plan to replace Arod, so we might've ended up with the 3b version of Roberts/Drew which would've certainly meant no '09 championship. That makes me happy Hal overruled our little Napoleon GM.
    $277. million = 1 world series championship. Arod opted out after 07 so you cannot say Cashman wouldn't or couldn't have found a solid replacement by 09. Very few people in Baseball think this was a wise contract.
    http://vimel.ru/e6748

  16. #16966
    NYYF Cy Young


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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricStuff View Post
    That Arod contract has been the battlecry for the "it's all Hal's fault" crowd forever but has it really been that bad? Ellsbury and CC's extension look like they'll end up being worse. Lets not forget too that Cashman seemingly had no plan to replace Arod, so we might've ended up with the 3b version of Roberts/Drew which would've certainly meant no '09 championship. That makes me happy Hal overruled our little Napoleon GM.
    With due respect. I couldn't disagree more. (Was Hal in the booth with Brian that last game?)

    The ARod contract was the worst and I don't care if it was Hal or Hank but Cashman was against it. For that money I feel we could have done better at 3rd than Roberts/Drew.
    Ellsbury's contract was 7 years and 150 M was insane and CC extension was 1 year.
    I don't even like McCann's at 5 years.

  17. #16967

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Guaranteed that the Yankees have made more money off of A-Rod than A-Rod has made off of the Yankees.

  18. #16968

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    A-Rod's 10-year monstrosity of a contract is completely Hank's doing. To be fair, Cashman was completely against it.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  19. #16969

    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Man_With_No_Plan View Post
    Guaranteed that the Yankees have made more money off of A-Rod than A-Rod has made off of the Yankees.
    This is true. All you have to do is track the rise in attendance after he joined the team. The Yankees had never drawn 4 million fans in the entire history of the franchise. But they did so in ARod's 2nd season with the team, which began a string of seasons with 4+ million in attendance.

  20. #16970
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    Good article, but the numbers get conflated because there are varied degrees of elbow injury that require the same TJS. Also, the fact that half never pitch more than 100 innings again? What's the contrition rate for pitchers without TJS? I'd wonder if it weren't similar.
    I don't think 'contrition' means what you think it means. Or maybe spiritual health is important to pitching performance and I didn't know.
    "Deep to left! Yastrzemski will not get it! It's a home run! A three-run homer by Bucky Dent! And the Yankees now lead by a score of 3-2!" - New York Yankees announcer Bill White (October 2, 1978)

  21. #16971
    Word of the Year is Complicit ojo's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by theDurk View Post
    I don't think 'contrition' means what you think it means. Or maybe spiritual health is important to pitching performance and I didn't know.
    Sorry - that was before my coffee.

    Attrition.

  22. #16972
    Super Moderator matt2351's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    Sorry - that was before my coffee.

    Attrition.
    Now go say 10 Acts of Contrition as penance.

  23. #16973
    Rawger in Jawge's Bawx ArodEra's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricStuff View Post
    That Arod contract has been the battlecry for the "it's all Hal's fault" crowd forever but has it really been that bad? Ellsbury and CC's extension look like they'll end up being worse. Lets not forget too that Cashman seemingly had no plan to replace Arod, so we might've ended up with the 3b version of Roberts/Drew which would've certainly meant no '09 championship. That makes me happy Hal overruled our little Napoleon GM.
    A few other battle cries/defenses:

    "It's the Tampa Bay factions' fault!"
    "Other GMs wanted (insert free agent bust here) too!"
    "Most NYYFAns members wanted (insert another bust here) too!"
    "What about the Nick Swisher trade?!?"
    "It (bad decision/trade/signing) looked good at the time."
    "What would YOU have done??!!'

    Thankfully, this has been kept to a minimum these days, as it becomes tougher and tougher (and sometimes preposterous) to defend him.



  24. #16974
    New Murderer's Row False1's Avatar
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by ArodEra View Post
    A few other battle cries/defenses:

    "It's the Tampa Bay factions' fault!"
    "Other GMs wanted (insert free agent bust here) too!"
    "Most NYYFAns members wanted (insert another bust here) too!"
    "What about the Nick Swisher trade?!?"
    "It (bad decision/trade/signing) looked good at the time."
    "What would YOU have done??!!'

    Thankfully, this has been kept to a minimum these days, as it becomes tougher and tougher (and sometimes preposterous) to defend him.
    whats the problem with the blooded ones? I think trades should generally be evaluated on the basis of info/needs at the time, not MMQB-style. Anyone can look at end results and not have an informed opinion beforehand - very WINMETHOD-ish if you ask me. People do go on autopilot around here and lose objectivity sometimes.

  25. #16975
    Make the Yankees great again!!
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    Re: Brian Cashman Performance Thread 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by ArodEra View Post
    A few other battle cries/defenses:

    "It's the Tampa Bay factions' fault!"
    "Other GMs wanted (insert free agent bust here) too!"
    "Most NYYFAns members wanted (insert another bust here) too!"
    "What about the Nick Swisher trade?!?"
    "It (bad decision/trade/signing) looked good at the time."
    "What would YOU have done??!!'

    Thankfully, this has been kept to a minimum these days, as it becomes tougher and tougher (and sometimes preposterous) to defend him.
    What I never understood is the same crowd that claims Cashman in the greatest GM in modern times also claims that he is not involved in many of the decisions.

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