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Soriambi
06-26-06, 09:16 PM
The Save Rule reads:

SAVES FOR RELIEF PITCHERS
10.20
Credit a pitcher with a save when he meets all three of the following conditions:
(1) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his club; and
(2) He is not the winning pitcher; and
(3) He qualifies under one of the following conditions:
(a) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning; or
(b) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat, or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batsmen he faces); or
(c) He pitches effectively for at least three innings. No more than one save may be credited in each game.

Let's use today's game as an example. The Yanks led 5-0 going into the 9th. Proctor gave up 2 runs with nobody out, so it was 5-2. Reading the rule, it seems like if Mariano Rivera came into the game up 5-2 with nobody out and threw an inning, he should get a save. I've always thought that if a pitcher is entering after the inning has started, the tying run has to be on deck (part two of that). If that not the case when nobody is out? Is it three runs then? I thought for sure that it wasn't, but the rule reads that way. Does anyone know for sure? :)

-tz
06-26-06, 10:29 PM
Scott Proctor pitching:
Edgar Renteria: Strike looking, Ball, Renteria singled to right.
Chipper Jones: Foul, Foul, Ball, Jones homered to right, Renteria scored.
Andruw Jones: Strike looking, Ball, Ball, Strike swinging, Jones struck out swinging.
Jeff Francoeur: Francoeur reached on an infield single.

Proctor got one out after the homer, then allowed a single, and left with a three run lead and a man on base.

So when Mo came in, it was only a save situation because of the base runner: the tying run was in the on deck circle. If Proctor had given up the two run homer and gotten one out, but not allowed another base runner, then when Mo came in it wouldn't have been a save situation despite the three-run lead.

If Proctor had given up the homer and not recorded an out, on the other hand, it would have been a save situation no matter whether there was a man on or not because Mo would have had to pitch a full inning (three outs) with a three run lead.

At least that's how I read that rule.

In Mo I Trust
06-26-06, 11:29 PM
Proctor got one out after the homer, then allowed a single, and left with a three run lead and a man on base.

So when Mo came in, it was only a save situation because of the base runner: the tying run was in the on deck circle. If Proctor had given up the two run homer and gotten one out, but not allowed another base runner, then when Mo came in it wouldn't have been a save situation despite the three-run lead.

If Proctor had given up the homer and not recorded an out, on the other hand, it would have been a save situation no matter whether there was a man on or not because Mo would have had to pitch a full inning (three outs) with a three run lead.

At least that's how I read that rule.

I agree.

Tifoso
06-27-06, 11:38 AM
That makes sense.

Soriambi
06-27-06, 01:36 PM
Yeah, that seems to be right. I had just always thought that no matter how many outs there were, the tying run needed to be on deck if a reliever entered after the inning started. I guess that's only when there's an out, though, or when the lead is more than three. So if the team has a three run lead and there's one out and no one on, it's not a save situation, but if there's one guy on, it is, and if there's no one out, it is. Learn something new every day. ;)

napllp
06-29-06, 07:43 AM
As long as Rivera comes in with the tying run is on base, at bat, or on deck, with a three run lead, he will get the save.

Soriambi
06-29-06, 12:08 PM
As long as Rivera comes in with the tying run is on base, at bat, or on deck, with a three run lead, he will get the save.

But he can have a five run lead as long as the tying run is on deck and it's a save situation. If the bases are loaded with two outs and the Yanks up 5-0, and he enters, that's a save situation. If it's 3-0 and there's one out and there's no one on, then it's not. What I was asking about was a 3-0 game with nobody out, but if the inning had already started. Evidently it is a save situation in that case. :)

TheYankee
07-04-06, 12:16 PM
But he can have a five run lead as long as the tying run is on deck and it's a save situation. If the bases are loaded with two outs and the Yanks up 5-0, and he enters, that's a save situation. If it's 3-0 and there's one out and there's no one on, then it's not. What I was asking about was a 3-0 game with nobody out, but if the inning had already started. Evidently it is a save situation in that case. :)That's correct, so long as he (Rivera) isn't the one who put himself in that 5 run situation. As for the other situation you mentioned, that to is a save situation as well because no outs have been recorded.

4bronxbombers
07-05-06, 03:53 PM
Guy on ESPN was just saying the Save Rule is over inflated. He was using Papelbon as one of his examples. Should be interesting to hear the comments however I'm no longer in my car and listening. :)

Soriambi
07-05-06, 04:25 PM
Guy on ESPN was just saying the Save Rule is over inflated. He was using Papelbon as one of his examples. Should be interesting to hear the comments however I'm no longer in my car and listening. :)

What do you mean by over inflated? Did you mean overrated or that it gives credit for a save in too many situations or what? :)

4bronxbombers
07-05-06, 04:31 PM
What do you mean by over inflated? Did you mean overrated or that it gives credit for a save in too many situations or what? :)

He said that a pitcher sometimes gets up in the 9th and pitches one inning to get the save. Yes overrarated. I was typing a paper regarding inflation. My bad. Thanks for the catch - no pun intended. :)

justin32099
07-28-06, 09:35 AM
Guy on ESPN was just saying the Save Rule is over inflated. He was using Papelbon as one of his examples. Should be interesting to hear the comments however I'm no longer in my car and listening. :)

Papelbon (one of the best closers in baseball this year, with a sub-1 ERA) doesn't strike my mind as an example of saves being overrated. What about "All-Star" Derrick Turnbow? (23 saves, 6.02 ERA)