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View Full Version : Can you honestly tell me Cal Ripken deserves to be an all star this year?



mish1019
06-07-01, 11:14 AM
Look, i know enough not to ever put alot of faith in the all star ballots, but this goes beyond simple stupidity. The man is batting 212. 2 FREAKING 12!!!! he was out of 16 games - which may not translate into half of the games played, but hell, its not far behind. His numbers are dismal at best. But because this is his swan song and because he is cal ripken jr, he is going to start at 3rd base for the AL team.

Bad enough the AL team usually looks suspiciously similiar to the Indian's lineup - but this just put me over the edge. I'll get off my soap box now :)

Chris
06-07-01, 11:18 AM
I can't even honestly tell you that he nelongs in a Major league uniform.


I hat the all star game and the all star brea.

Can anything be more anti-climatic to the midpoint of a baseball season than what amounts to a game about half as exciting as a softball beer league game

b-ball-lunachick
06-07-01, 11:40 AM
I completely agree, Mish...the whole thing is a sham...Nomah has a lot of votes for someone who hasn't put on a uniform yet this year!!

I'm not sure if the Ripken joke is because of the swan song, or if it's just the ignorance of some fans who vote....

As for the Indian lineup, the Indians hand out a ballot to everyone as they walk in the stadium and collect it after a certain inning...then they constantly flash on the scoreboard how much each of their players are ahead or behind in the voting and encourage people to take more ballots with them when they leave, to make sure they support their team...

it's "legal" for Cleveland to do that I guess, so be it...The Yankees don't really promote voting at all...but I'd rather they keep concentrating on putting the best team on the field for the real games to help us win championships...I hope Alomar is smiling from his sofa with his all star memorabilia as he watches the Yanks celebrate on the mound in October!! :D

Bub
06-07-01, 12:39 PM
Until you take the voting away from the fans, you're going to get this kind of result often. This is nothing more than a popularity contest. Good thing the managers get to pick the pitchers...can you imaging the fans voting in David Cone this year! So here's my solution:

1. Let the managers pick the entire team.
2. The winner gets to keep the next all-star game in the winning team's league the next year.
3. An All-Star Trophy of great proportions gets to travel to all the parks of the winning league during the regular season, but would have to be given back to the other league if the game is lost.

allybear
06-07-01, 01:55 PM
I think that if you get voted to the All-Star team say, five years in a row, you should be a permanent part of the game. That would keep the players that the casual fan votes for because "I heard of him" (especially a fan of a NL team voting for the AL all-stars and vice versa) on the team, without taking a roster spot from a guy truly having an All-Star year.

Just my idea...:)

CaptainCargo
06-07-01, 02:14 PM
I like what Bub said. Plus I don't know what the pay scale is for that game but the winning team should get paid 3 times what the losers get. That might light a fire under at least the guys that get there.

Casey

silverdsl
06-07-01, 02:54 PM
I agree Mish. Cal's has accomplished a lot over the course of his career and he certainly deserved to be there in past years, but now? Part of the problem might be that the voters just don't know who else to vote for because no one else is having a huge year. Troy Glaus is a good player and Scott Brosius is having a great year but are either all-stars?

I also think that players who haven't played thus far this season shouldn't be on the ballot. What have Nomar and Ken Griffey Jr. done to help their teams this season?

-Deborah

koko
06-07-01, 03:17 PM
I think they should do one of 2 things w/ the All-Star game. Either do what they used to do:
World Champion vs. Major League All Star Team

or

What hockey does:
US vs. World
How great would that be?

rajah
06-07-01, 03:26 PM
IMHO, Cal Ripken is the most overrated player of this era. He had one great year and some other good years, but his claim to fame primarily rests on his refusal to sit out when he was hurt and was hurting his team. Cal wouldn't even stay in the same hotel as the rest of the team. He wouldn't help out any player that threatened to take his SS position and move him to third, where he should have been shifted many years before he was because of his limited range. (E.g., remember the '96 playoffs and how bad Jeter, whose range is not great, made him look?) I could go on and on. I think the guy was and probably still is a selfish sham.

I admit to evaluating ballplayers based on their five to ten year peak, rather than on their longevity and career stats. (E.g., Don't tell me that Hank Aaron, or even Willie Mays, was better than Mickey.)

nicky_d
06-07-01, 03:51 PM
It seems that the present system of fans voting for the starting team corrupts the intent of putting the best team on the field as the league's representative. Then, the present system allows the manager to choose additional players as a means to offset the fans' poor choices.

The opposite should be imposed: the starting lineup should be the best at each position based on performance for the season to date, and then the manager could choose additional players to fill out the roster based on performance, or sentiment, or whatever.

How do you do this? Eliminate the fan's voting. With computerization, a scoring system can be devised where all of a player's statistics can be factored to produce a combined numerical score. The player at each position who has the highest score will be on the starting team. Then, the manager can pick out the rest of the team however he wants.

It's objective and fair, and based on ability. Look, baseball uses statistics to determine batting, fielding, and pitching leaders for all sorts of categories -- so why not take it to the next level and combine various statstics to rank players in such a way to determine the best all-around player at each position?

satchel
06-07-01, 04:15 PM
What's wrong with the All-Star game being a popularity contest?

Everyone agrees the All-Star game has no meaning. It's just an exhibition for the fans. For The Fans. Take input into the lineup away from the fans, and you take away the only purpose the All-Star game has.

Grafting artificial meaning onto the All-Star game by jacking up the bonus to the winning team's players (most of whom already make too much money to care) or by attaching world series home field advantage to the winning team's league would be disastrous. Managers would have incentive to leave the best players in the game, tiring them out and risking injury that will hurt other teams. And players who lived out their boyhood dreams by getting to the All-Star game once on the strength of a career season (remember Brad Ausmus or Paul Byrd a few years back?) would be left warming the bench.

The All-Star game is fine the way it is. No, Cal Ripken isn't a good baseball player anymore, but he's still a Star, and if the voting fans want to see him in an exhibition, so be it.

KENMonteSS86
06-07-01, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by satchel
The All-Star game is fine the way it is. No, Cal Ripken isn't a good baseball player anymore, but he's still a Star, and if the voting fans want to see him in an exhibition, so be it.


I was going to stay out of this one, until I saw this thread...

I agree with Satchel--the All-Star game is fine the way it is. After all, I think the managers know to take Cal (or any other undeserving All-Star starter) out after 3 innings, and they usually do...thus, the backup (and on the infield, there is usually only 1 backup per position, maybe 2 at one spot), who would be the more deserving player, will get to play 6 innings...

Elfdood
06-07-01, 04:50 PM
Well, I don't know about all of you, but I love watching great players compete against each other. And Troy Glaus is a <i>great player</i>. But although Glaus doesn't get to start the game, which is really unfair to him, he'll probably get to play more than most of the starters.

After Curt Schilling blows away Cal, he'll leave the game and Glaus will come in the third or fourth inning. Unless Torre names Brosius to the All-Star team (which I could see if he was having his usual defensive year to go with his bat, but as things are I don't think he deserves it this season), he'll play the rest of the game.

I was pretty angry about the Cal thing at first, too, but there is that very legitimate argument that the All-Star game can be used to honor all-time greats (and Cal is one, even without the streak). But you have to feel sorry for Glaus. Wouldn't it be nice if Ripken could be a bench coach for the team or something?

Luvtino
06-07-01, 05:08 PM
If Cal wasn't Cal he probably wouldn't even be on the Orioles anymore. He is on the Orioles at this time due to his name and what he has done in the past and the same goes for the All-Star Game.

This will probably be the last year it will be an issue, but it is a shame that others more deserving may be left out. As the fans vote the player who gets voted in will be the fan favorite or an organization that pushes it's fans to vote at games(Cleveland).

If it is going to remain a game based solely on popularity versus those deserving than expect this to continue. For it to be a true "All-Star" Game the mangers and coaches would have to pick the entire team and I doubt that will ever happen.

Stick Michael
06-07-01, 06:34 PM
I couldn't agree more, Mish. A similar topic had arisen on this forum a few weeks ago and it's unbelievable to think players like Cal Ripken and Ken Griffey, Jr. are going to be voted to the All Star game. Alot of deserving players have been denied their rightful place at the mid-Summer Classic because of ballot stuffing ignorant fans who, unforunately, greatly outweigh their intelligent counterparts.

Ultimately, I hope the All Star ballot becomes a simple popularity contest because essentially it already is. If the fans want to see guys like Ripken and Tony Gwynn at the All Star game that's fine but it's not fair that their presence comes at the expense of a deserving player that's busted his ass his whole life, might be having a career year and might only have one chance to make it. All this could be resolved very simply - have the All Star ballots mean nothing with regards to the players selected being counted towards the roster. That way the real all stars could be selected by the people who know the most - the players themselves.

James

#1PaFan
06-07-01, 07:55 PM
Well, who's to say? Those darn ballots were extremely confusing.

bagger015
06-07-01, 09:33 PM
populaity contest always eas always will be. :(

Eddie160
06-07-01, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by Luvtino

If it is going to remain a game based solely on popularity versus those deserving than expect this to continue. For it to be a true "All-Star" Game the mangers and coaches would have to pick the entire team and I doubt that will ever happen.



I agree but you know if the coaches picked the players the media would make a big deal out of it I could see it now , "this player wasn't picked because the manager doesn't like him"

Bluesexy's daddy
06-08-01, 01:06 AM
Well I figure the Allstar game is a consulation prize for good players that do not obtain the honor of wearing a YANKEE uniform. Those poor guys have to have SOMETHING to dream about.

Cal Ripken belongs at the Allstar game, and they should NOT make him pay for his box seat ticket. Does he get a "disabled" parking space?

Cal go home. You look silly.

mish1019
06-08-01, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by KENMonteSS86
I agree with Satchel--the All-Star game is fine the way it is. After all, I think the managers know to take Cal (or any other undeserving All-Star starter) out after 3 innings, and they usually do...thus, the backup (and on the infield, there is usually only 1 backup per position, maybe 2 at one spot), who would be the more deserving player, will get to play 6 innings...

Ok, i'll give you that - the managers aren't stupid, and they do know enough to take the less deserving guys out. But to me - it only reinforces how much the voting goes against the whole supposed purpose of having an all star game. If the fans feel the need to have some sort of vote for a popularity contest - let them vote in some half baked contest at the end of the year - and give the guys some flaky award. But if you are going to have an all star break at mid season - to signify the half way point is upon us, and teams better start getting in gear - then either do it based on ability or don't do it all!! that's just my two cents....

allybear
06-08-01, 10:46 AM
I still like my idea - after five years of being voted on, you get grandfathered on, without taking a roster spot. That way, people who will automatically vote for Griffey and Ripken get to see them without taking a spot that might go to Bobby Abreu or Troy Glaus.

Makes sense to me...:)

JeanC
06-08-01, 11:33 AM
It depends on a few things!

One that the Fans vote him in on the Allstar ticket!

Two that Joe agrees with the fans that he should be in there!
(as Joe will have last say!)

Three that Cal remains in good health & injury free. (but it looks like the Orioles are doing just that by not playing him every game!)

Other than that Since Im Not a Baltimore Orioles Fan.... No I cant see him deserving anything but a Hero to His own fans!

:lol:

Shel
06-08-01, 01:41 PM
I like your idea, Ally.

Does Cal deserve to be on the All-Star team? If he's voted on the team by the fans, yes. Is he worthy of being on the All-Star team this season? No.

I've had this same discussion with several friends who are Orioles fans. Some of them have the same opinion that's been expressed in this thread -- Cal's time has passed, and it's almost a joke that he's the top vote getter for third base. Others believe that Cal deserves a spot on the All-Star team, based on his past accomplishments and contributions to the game, especially considering that this may be his final season. I suspect that those people with the latter opinion also believe Cal can walk across Baltimore's Inner Harbor without getting his feet wet. Being a legend does have its perks, I guess.

If the All-Star game remains nothing more than a popularity contest, then this sort of situation will continue as long as the fans are voting in their favorite/most popular players. If the All-Star game is intended to showcase the best players in both leagues at the mid-point of the season, then I don't think the fans should be voting for the starting lineups.

CalifYanksFan
06-08-01, 01:52 PM
It's an exhibition anyways. And as long as the fans are allowed to vote the players they want to see in then I guess Cal, if he's voted in, will get a spot. I don't think Torre would put him on there as Baltimore's rep, because there are other O's more deserving. Would it bother me to see him on the all-star team. Not really.

SanFrANSKY
06-08-01, 02:16 PM
The All-Star game is not about merit. It's about which players the fans want to see.

Look at it this way: if it was about stats you wouldn't see as many Yankees because the Yanks don't really have a standout like Manny, Glaus or Giambi.

Hey, we're watching it so we should definitely get to pick who plays.

To paraphrase Yogi: "If people want to come to the ballpark to see Ripken, how can you stop them?"

YanksNoHitter96
06-09-01, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by satchel


What's wrong with the All-Star game being a popularity contest?






The same thing that's wrong with the gold glove awards being decided by offensive numbers. Yeah, I'm still bent out of shape about Palmeiro getting Tino's gold glove last year.
Anyway, it's morally defeating to have a career year and not start in the all-star game because the cleveland fans believe Kenny Lofton is still all-star material.Get rid of fan voting, it's a discrace to the mid-summer classic.

Slippery Elm
06-10-01, 05:03 AM
Let's just make the All-Star game an exhibition of over-the-hill old former stars.

Benedict Cone can be the starter, OK?

YankeePride1967
06-10-01, 12:24 PM
I'm sorry, I've seen Cal enough in the all star break. I want somebody that will do something. Not some broken down old man. I respect him for what he has done, but let's live in the present.

yankeesrule2000
06-10-01, 01:34 PM
he is in the allstar game because of what he has done in the past.. but the past is over and there is no way in hell that he deserves to be there now..... this year he look horrible, he should consider retirement.. go out on a good note..

YankeePride1967
06-10-01, 04:28 PM
Ripken aside, I think fans are doing a better job so far than in past years. Not too many ridiculous picks.