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Bub
01-06-06, 12:25 PM
Anybody know if the team's position on facial hair/long hair is enforceable? For example, if Damon refused to remove the long hair and/or beard, do the Yankees have any legal recourse?

Sam18
01-06-06, 01:17 PM
Yeah facial hair rules!!

ctan
01-06-06, 01:26 PM
Don't know about legal, but in baseball peer pressure is much stronger than the law anyway!

yanksconstantino24
01-06-06, 07:05 PM
Anybody know if the team's position on facial hair/long hair is enforceable? For example, if Damon refused to remove the long hair and/or beard, do the Yankees have any legal recourse?

It depends on whether or not the hair requirements are written in the contract.

DontHateOnNumber2
01-06-06, 07:16 PM
Facial hair kicks ass unless it isn't well-kept.

DontHateOnNumber2
01-06-06, 07:17 PM
I could've sworn that Don Mattingly used to sport a goatee rather than just the moustache when I was in elementary school. I'll say it was probably 1994 or 1995.

StaceyRosie
01-06-06, 07:37 PM
I could've sworn that Don Mattingly used to sport a goatee rather than just the moustache when I was in elementary school. I'll say it was probably 1994 or 1995.

You were in Elementary School in 1994 or 1995?

:giveup:

Davios
01-06-06, 07:38 PM
I could've sworn that Don Mattingly used to sport a goatee rather than just the moustache when I was in elementary school. I'll say it was probably 1994 or 1995.


Yeah he was actually still sporting it during that disastrous Seattle series which marked Donnie's retirement, you can see him with it during those playoffs in the Paul O'neill Yankeeography.

I would imagine the reason Stein didn't make a huge fiasco out of it is that everyone knew Donnie was pretty much gone and he had already gotten into a minor fracas with Don about cutting his hair earlier on in his career.

NYYBombshell
01-06-06, 07:39 PM
You were in Elementary School in 1994 or 1995?

:giveup:



I graduated 8th grade in 1996.

yanksconstantino24
01-06-06, 07:42 PM
I could've sworn that Don Mattingly used to sport a goatee rather than just the moustache when I was in elementary school. I'll say it was probably 1994 or 1995.

I'm not sure because I didn't have a TV until later, but I know some players used to stretch the rules. David Wells always had a mustache with a days worth of stubble. And Roger Clemens would sometimes go with stubble as well.

Sam18
01-06-06, 08:16 PM
I graduated 8th grade in 1996.

Wow, I was in the third grade.

Tifoso
01-06-06, 08:16 PM
Wow, I was in the third grade.

I wasn't born yet :)

yanksconstantino24
01-06-06, 08:18 PM
I wasn't born yet :)

Really?

Tifoso
01-06-06, 08:19 PM
Really?

Oh, sorry, misspelled...

it should read "I wasn't boring yet"

Sorry for the confusion. :o

yanksconstantino24
01-06-06, 08:27 PM
Oh, sorry, misspelled...

it should read "I wasn't boring yet"

Sorry for the confusion. :o

Oh okay. I was going to say, if you were not born in 1996, then you must be really young.

utopiapkwy
01-06-06, 09:53 PM
Even after the haircut, it looked like Damon's sideburns were alot longer than NYY regulation. we'll see where they are on opening day.

silverdsl
01-06-06, 10:05 PM
I'm curious too as to what the actual legality is of the Yankees facial hair rules. Let's say that someone refuses to shave - what would happen? Or if the Yankees had a player who refused to cut their hair or shave due to religious reasons? I would assume that any players who had issues regarding feeling strongly about not shaving or cutting their hair wouldn't sign with the Yankees but let's say a player has been with the Yankees for a few years then suddenly decides that having a full beard has personal meaning to them. What legally can the Yankees do?

-Deborah

utopiapkwy
01-07-06, 10:18 AM
I'm curious too as to what the actual legality is of the Yankees facial hair rules. Let's say that someone refuses to shave - what would happen? Or if the Yankees had a player who refused to cut their hair or shave due to religious reasons? I would assume that any players who had issues regarding feeling strongly about not shaving or cutting their hair wouldn't sign with the Yankees but let's say a player has been with the Yankees for a few years then suddenly decides that having a full beard has personal meaning to them. What legally can the Yankees do?

-Deborah

I believe that, legally speaking, George is within his rights to have you wacked. Seriously though, in this world of billion dollar players, there are few things that are bigger than money, and god bless it, having a close haircut when you wear the pinstripes is one of them.

Bub
01-07-06, 10:23 AM
I believe that, legally speaking, George is within his rights to have you wacked. Seriously though, in this world of billion dollar players, there are few things that are bigger than money, and god bless it, having a close haircut when you wear the pinstripes is one of them.Won't disagree, but so far nobody's answered the question.

SkooterPhil#10
01-07-06, 10:56 AM
Officially, George indeed has the right to impose the facial hair policy or any other policy for that matter, but only as long as it doesn't conflict with religious constraints, like Muslims and Orthodox Jews having beards. This is according to rules set by the Equal Employment Commission, which says that employers are allowed to impose dress codes and appearance policies as long as they don't discriminate on race, color, religion, age, national origin or gender.

Unofficially though, you better cut the hair no matter what, or ELSE, and we're all aware of that. George is an unreasonable old man, and he'll be more apt to trade you or not sign you if you're unwilling to shave for whatever reason.

If you ask me, the facial hair policy is nothing but an arbitrary demonstration of control. It's old fashioned and to say it has an effect on the players' performance would be ludicrous. These are gum chewing, weight lifting, jocks, not clean cut business men whose appearance actually affects their performance.

Bub
01-07-06, 11:41 AM
Officially, George indeed has the right to impose the facial hair policy or any other policy for that matter, but only as long as it doesn't conflict with religious constraints, like Muslims and Orthodox Jews having beards. This is according to rules set by the Equal Employment Commission, which says that employers are allowed to impose dress codes and appearance policies as long as they don't discriminate on race, color, religion, age, national origin or gender.

Unofficially though, you better cut the hair no matter what, or ELSE, and we're all aware of that. George is an unreasonable old man, and he'll be more apt to trade you or not sign you if you're unwilling to shave for whatever reason.

If you ask me, the facial hair policy is nothing but an arbitrary demonstration of control. It's old fashioned and to say it has an effect on the players' performance would be ludicrous. These are gum chewing, weight lifting, jocks, not clean cut business men whose appearance actually affects their performance.Thanks, Skooter! That answers part 1. Now, what happens if somebody doesn't cut the locks? Can George dock pay? Will he be benched? Hey, while I'm in Florida in March I'll ask him myself! :)

RhodyYanksFan
01-07-06, 12:06 PM
I'm not sure because I didn't have a TV until later, but I know some players used to stretch the rules. David Wells always had a mustache with a days worth of stubble. And Roger Clemens would sometimes go with stubble as well.

Clemens would shave after his start and not shave again until after his next start.

Bub
01-07-06, 12:21 PM
Clemens would shave after his start and not shave again until after his next start.Come to think of it, Bernie would sometimes skip shaving for a few days.

pikapp107
01-07-06, 12:54 PM
I graduated 8th grade in 1996.

God bless class of '96.

keithf1
01-07-06, 04:03 PM
They were talking about this on PTI. Wilborn said that it's ok for a team to enforce it since they agreed to join and knew what the organization was all about. However, then they compared it to the NBA dress code. He said that a league should not have that kind of authory over clothes. I agree with him.

As far as legally, it depends on the contract I suppose.

SkooterPhil#10
01-07-06, 04:38 PM
They were talking about this on PTI. Wilborn said that it's ok for a team to enforce it since they agreed to join and knew what the organization was all about. However, then they compared it to the NBA dress code. He said that a league should not have that kind of authory over clothes. I agree with him.


What control do they have over clothing? Is there a policy for what you wear while travelling?

yankeebot
01-07-06, 06:00 PM
Thanks, Skooter! That answers part 1. Now, what happens if somebody doesn't cut the locks? Can George dock pay? Will he be benched? Hey, while I'm in Florida in March I'll ask him myself! :)They have the right to bench anybody but if you want to dock pay or terminate a contract the Players' Union will be all over it. I am not clear on the CBA rules for docking pay but contract termination is very difficult. I don't see where "failure to shave" would apply.

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">By Club



7.(b) The Club may terminate this contract upon written notice to the
Player (but only after requesting and obtaining waivers of this contract
from all other Major League Clubs) if the Player shall at any time:
(1) fail, refuse or neglect to conform his personal conduct to the
standards of good citizenship and good sportsmanship or to keep
himself in first-class physical condition or to obey the Club’s training
rules; or
(2) fail, in the opinion of the Club’s management, to exhibit sufficient
skill or competitive ability to qualify or continue as a member
of the Club’s team; or
(3) fail, refuse or neglect to render his services hereunder or in
any other manner materially breach this contract.
7.(c) If this contract is terminated by the Club, the Player shall be entitled
to termination pay under the circumstances and in the amounts set
forth in Article IX of the Basic Agreement. In addition, the Player shall
be entitled to receive an amount equal to the reasonable traveling
expenses of the Player, including first-class jet air fare and meals en
route, to his home city.



</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Yankeesfan66
01-07-06, 10:38 PM
[QUOTE=SkooterPhil#10]Officially, George indeed has the right to impose the facial hair policy or any other policy for that matter, but only as long as it doesn't conflict with religious constraints, like Muslims and Orthodox Jews having beards. This is according to rules set by the Equal Employment Commission, which says that employers are allowed to impose dress codes and appearance policies as long as they don't discriminate on race, color, religion, age, national origin or gender.

While this is true, there would be a catch-22 involved here. If a player tried to justify his beard by claiming status as an Orthodox Jew or Muslim, then how to explain his willingness to play on Fridays or Saturdays, or any other major religious holiday that falls in the 6 month season? Both of these religions have strict rules about 'working' on certain holy days or the Sabbath, and if you're willing to do that, then nobody's gonna buy your story about being so orthodox, your religion requires the beard. So basically, what we have is a glorified version of what lots of other corporations have; a dress code. I teach in a private high school, and we have a dress code. Nobody cares if I think I can teach just as well in jeans, or if the boys would feel better with long hair. It's all a no-no, with punishments attached for violating the rules. I'm sure lots of other workplaces do the same. And look at the NBA; even the players own union upheld the right of the league to enforce a dress code; players being fined for not obeying. George is hardly the only boss to do this.

Wolf In Pinstripes
01-08-06, 08:46 PM
If you ask me, the facial hair policy is nothing but an arbitrary demonstration of control. It's old fashioned and to say it has an effect on the players' performance would be ludicrous. These are gum chewing, weight lifting, jocks, not clean cut business men whose appearance actually affects their performance.

Agreed. I've always thought the facial hair/hair length policy was moronic. I don't think players should look like total slackers or bums, but I distinctly remember most of my favorite Yankees from yesteryear having facial hair : Munson, Guidry, Chambliss, Reggie, Lyle, Gossage, Tidrow, blah blah blah .. some of those guys looked downright badass and it contributed to their aura on the field and around other players.

I have no issue with the idea of requirements for dressing presentably when you are travelling and representing your team. That's a small "price" to pay for making millions of dollars to play a game when you are representing a club and a city. However, I think the hair restrictions are just plain silly.

keithf1
01-08-06, 09:51 PM
What control do they have over clothing? Is there a policy for what you wear while travelling?
They have to wear suits not I believe traveling and for any team function what so ever. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe this is the core behind it.

Dooley Womack
01-08-06, 10:04 PM
Wow, I was in the third grade.

So the f*ck was Billy Madison and he was in his twenties.

SI Baseballman
01-08-06, 10:39 PM
Suspension without pay seems like an obvious punishment for breaking the team's dress or facial code.

Jersey Yankee
01-09-06, 08:10 PM
I'm curious too as to what the actual legality is of the Yankees facial hair rules. Let's say that someone refuses to shave - what would happen? Or if the Yankees had a player who refused to cut their hair or shave due to religious reasons? I would assume that any players who had issues regarding feeling strongly about not shaving or cutting their hair wouldn't sign with the Yankees but let's say a player has been with the Yankees for a few years then suddenly decides that having a full beard has personal meaning to them. What legally can the Yankees do?

-Deborah
The only religions I've ever heard of where facial hair for a man was expected are some Muslims, Orthodox Jews and I think Indians or Pakistanis (I guess they'd be Buddhists).

Anyway, if they were ever familiar with George Steinbrenner, then they'd know about the facial hair. If not, then their agent would tell them. In either case, I'm sure that someone from the Yanks would give him that "You know you're going to have to closely crop your hair if you'll be playing in the Bronx, don't you?" talk.

With that as an understanding, I'd find it ridiculous that they'd try pulling a fast one. If you know of the rules beforehand, then complaining about them later on doesn't make any sense.

Now if it were about playing on a highly religious holiday, such as Yom Kippur, etc, that may be another thing.

dmsimon15
01-09-06, 09:13 PM
Yeah, he definitely would have gotten pressure by the team. Plus, it's not like every player in the league doesn't know the policy of the Yankees. He's wasn't the first player that has had this as an issue, and he won't be the last.

BW51
01-10-06, 12:31 AM
Don't know about legal, but in baseball peer pressure is much stronger than the law anyway!

and BOSS'S law is stronger than anything...haha

BW51
01-10-06, 12:34 AM
Agreed. I've always thought the facial hair/hair length policy was moronic. I don't think players should look like total slackers or bums, but I distinctly remember most of my favorite Yankees from yesteryear having facial hair : Munson, Guidry, Chambliss, Reggie, Lyle, Gossage, Tidrow, blah blah blah .. some of those guys looked downright badass and it contributed to their aura on the field and around other players.

I have no issue with the idea of requirements for dressing presentably when you are travelling and representing your team. That's a small "price" to pay for making millions of dollars to play a game when you are representing a club and a city. However, I think the hair restrictions are just plain silly.

i agree that the policy is a little silly, but some guys out there just look plain rediculous in baseball...nothing off the top of my head, but i'm sure i could thing of some

with the boss being a straight edged person, in his mind the policy is what champions should look like



and maybe he has stock in like norelco too...haha