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bxny
05-31-01, 05:08 AM
Report claims Virginia team won't hurt O's
By Eric Fisher, The Washington Times
May 31, 2001

The Virginia Baseball Stadium Authority yesterday tried to quell its long conflict with the Baltimore Orioles. Instead, it chafed not only the Orioles but its District-based rivals also trying to return baseball to the Washington area.

The Stadium Authority yesterday released a comprehensive study on the projected effects of a Northern Virginia-based team on the Orioles, a first in the long baseball battle between the three areas. The Orioles and owner Peter Angelos have long claimed the Washington area generates as much as 33 percent of its revenues, and as a result, have firmly resisted years of local efforts to replace the twice-departed Washington Senators.

The $175,000 study, seeking to refute Angelos' claims with hard statistical data, concluded a Northern Virginia team would have only a nominal effect on Camden Yards and virtually no effect at all on luxury seat revenues, sponsorships or media contracts.

Among the study's key findings:
• The Orioles draw just 4 percent of their fans from Northern Virginia, 1 percent from the District and 8 percent from Montgomery and Prince George's counties. Since nearly half of those fans are either active Orioles fans or attending games to entertain clients, the detriment to the Orioles from a Northern Virginia team is estimated at less than 3 percent of its total attendance.

• None of the Orioles' luxury suite holders considers Northern Virginia as its key business territory. And because the team holds a healthy waiting list for suites, it should continue to be sold out. The team's sponsorship revenues, also deriving largely from Baltimore-focused or national companies, would be diminished annually by an estimated $488,195 — less than one half of one percent of the more than $125 million it reaps yearly.

• The Orioles' lucrative radio and TV contracts would not be harmed, as the area's nearly unrivaled demographics should attract additional carriers to the market.

The study was based on interviews last summer with fans attending games at Camden Yards, random telephone surveys, surveys filled out by more than half of the Orioles' large corporate sponsors and an analysis of television market data.

"The effect on the Orioles would be so infinitesimal that any sales organization should be able to replace the lost revenues before the next season," said Bill Collins, leader of the Northern Virginia investor group seeking to relocate a team. "The Orioles management can sleep well tonight."

The Orioles, predictably, could not have disagreed more. The team yesterday did not receive a copy of the study along with Commissioner Bud Selig and the other 29 clubs —contrary to initial claims by the Stadium Authority. But upon being briefed of the study's primary points, Orioles officials vehemently objected.

"The only way to assume there wouldn't be an impact on [our luxury seat and media revenues] is to assume they wouldn't have any of their own," said Orioles spokesman Bill Stetka. "It's ludicrous to think there wouldn't be an effect on us."

The Orioles, one of the baseball's largest draws since Camden Yards opened in 1992, has seen attendance fall the past three years, and its average draw is down another 15 percent so far this season.

The Stadium Authority also cast its arrows in the District's direction. The study estimates that placing a team in the District could cannibalize 1,090 Orioles fans a game, 17 percent higher than the 932 people a game a Northern Virginia club is estimated to take from Baltimore.

While both numbers are small compared to the Orioles annual attendance of more than 3 million, the study also estimates a Northern Virginia-based team would generate 28 percent more new baseball fans than a club in the District.

The claims, however, are made without regard to where the Stadium Authority would place a stadium. Collins and the Authority have both long refused to disclose the sites under consideration, and no specific site was used a basis for measurement in the study. But casually discussed options near Crystal City and Rosslyn are both less than six miles from Mount Vernon Square, one of the key stadium sites being considered by a District-based investor group led by Fred Malek.

"Washington has simply not supported baseball," said Gabe Paul Jr., Stadium Authority executive director, referring to the two failed Senators franchises.

Malek disagreed, citing the negligent ownership of those franchises. Malek praised the Stadium Authority's efforts, but predictably continues to view the District as a better option for a team, given the fairly successful track record of ballparks recently built in downtown areas.

"Differences aside, I think it's a good study," Malek said. "Ultimately this does us both a favor. Even if we take a little from the Orioles, which I don't think we would, we would certainly top 30,000 in average attendance, and that's a lot more than what a lot of the current clubs are drawing."

The core basis of the study is the beleaguered financial shape of the Montreal Expos, Minnesota Twins, Tampa Bay Devil Rays, Florida Marlins and a handful of other franchises. The Expos, worst of all, are now drawing fewer than 9,000 fans per home game.

Last spring, Selig backed off long-held objections to moving clubs, and league officials have been actively studying the issue for nearly a year. The commissioner yesterday had still not read the study and declined to comment.

http://www.washtimes.com/sports/default-2001531231630.htm

Ansky39
05-31-01, 08:18 AM
been sayin it for years...

hopefully now selig will get off his knees and tell angeloser and his small town team that no one outside of borememore really gives a damn about them and their relic of a thirdbaseman... but i doubt it... selig's a wuss...

Shel
05-31-01, 10:20 AM
"borememore"? :eek: Oh my! :lol:

As much as I've enjoyed going to Camden Yards, I'm sick of giving Peter Asselos my money. I want a home team of my own. I'd prefer to see a team in DC itself, but Northern Virginia would be fine with me.

Mind you, the figures quoted in this study should be taken with a grain of salt. Since the study was funded by the group trying to bring baseball to Northern Virginia, it's going to paint NoVa as the best possible place for MLB in the DC metro area. I'm guessing that the Orioles draw slightly more fans from the entire DC area (DC itself, Northern VA, and PG/Montgomery Counties) than what the study claims, but slightly less than what the Orioles claim. Nevertheless, I'm convinced that there will not be a negative impact on Orioles' attendance if MLB returns to the DC area.

Let's face it -- the biggest negative impact on the Orioles is Peter Asselos.

Ansky39
05-31-01, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by Shel
Peter Asselos

classic... http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/realhappy/mhihi.gif

JeanC
05-31-01, 12:12 PM
Dont we have plenty of Baseball Teams Already???!!!!

No Offense there Shel !!


:D

KLJ
05-31-01, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by JeanC
Dont we have plenty of Baseball Teams Already???!!!!

move montreal to northern va..

Winger03
05-31-01, 12:20 PM
I think DC/NoVA is looking for an existing team (Rays / Marlins / Expos / Twins). Their main rival appears to be North Carolina. However, a couple of teams are crying for a new stadium, and DC/NoVA could be used as leverage... AGAIN ... for another owner. Happens all of the time. I've lived in the DC suburbs for 35 years. Heck, one year TOPPS (the baseball card people) even printed up cards for a team called the Washington Nationals when the Pardes were going to come here. I seem to remember that it was in the mid 70's shortly after the expansion Senators moved to Texas.

Ansky39
05-31-01, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by KLJ

move montreal to northern va..

ditto...

JeanC
05-31-01, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by KLJ

move montreal to northern va..

Ok Kyle!! I like that one!!!

I do agree!

:D

Shel
05-31-01, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by JeanC


Ok Kyle!! I like that one!!!

I do agree!

:D

Thank you, Jean! :)

Ansky39, I wish I could take credit for "Asselos," but I actually got that from someone on an Orioles board. Other nicknames Orioles fans have called Angelos include Angeloser, Devilos (the man ain't no angel!), and the Little Peter. :D

Asselos will whine and scream and cry about how a team in the DC area will devastate the Orioles. He should stop worrying about his neighbor to the south and start worrying about the mess that is his own team.

madforyanks
05-31-01, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by Winger03
I think DC/NoVA is looking for an existing team (Rays / Marlins / Expos / Twins). * * *

LOL. Let's move the Twins back, and they can become the Washington Senators again.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Winger03
05-31-01, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by madforyanks


LOL. Let's move the Twins back, and they can become the Washington Senators again.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Hey, I'm rooting for that!!! :D:D:D:D

Luvtino
05-31-01, 02:52 PM
I agree move the Expos to VA...why not?? They are rotting away in Montreal and there would be tons of people lining up to see them there.

NC would also be a great place for a team. Maybe that will happen in the future as well.

bxny
05-31-01, 04:43 PM
I know a team in DC won't have any impact on the number of trips a year that I make to the Yard. I used to try to catch Mussina whenever he pitched, regardless of the opponent, and whenever the Yankees were in town. Thanks to Angelos I can now go to the Yard and root for the Yankees and Moose at the same time. Besides, it's getting harder and harder to get tickets to a weekend Yankee game at the Yard with all the damn Yankee fans from up NY/NJ way riding the turnpike down. :)


If it ever does happen I want it to be in Downtown DC, right here.....

http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/national/wasbpk.htm

I want to see the day when America's pastime returns to the Nation's Capitol. To see baseball with the Capitol dome glowing under the DC night sky. The day it happens I'm going to buy season tickets.

JeanC
06-01-01, 01:51 AM
Thanks bxny for the link! :)

That is a beautiful drawing of a future park! I think it would be great right there in DC! It would bring together the politicians after a hard days debate on both sides!

I like that!

Thats even better and far more worth it then building another Yankee Stadium! I cant wait to see the Present and I hope forever Yankee Stadium with its talked of ambience!!!

:)

madforyanks
06-01-01, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by bxny
* * *
I want to see the day when America's pastime returns to the Nation's Capitol. To see baseball with the Capitol dome glowing under the DC night sky. The day it happens I'm going to buy season tickets.


As someone who grew up in Northern Va. in the last days of the original Senators (aka Twins) I question whether America's past-time was every really in the nation's capital except as a showcase for the visitng teams. The Senators helped me become a Yankees' fan at a very early age. What can I say?

To quote the immortal words of Shirley Povich (former sports maven of The Washington Post): "Washington--first in war, first in peace, and last in the American League."

:lol: :lol: :lol:

However, the view would be great. The city should have a team. And I strongly agree that the team should be within the physical boundaries of D.C.