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View Full Version : Colon wins AL Cy Young Award



StatenIslandYankee
11-08-05, 01:01 PM
Thoughts?

yanks710
11-08-05, 01:02 PM
Beat me to the punch

Blaze
11-08-05, 01:03 PM
Is anyone ever gonna give relievers anything?

Blokee
11-08-05, 01:04 PM
Mo came in 2nd with 8 1st placed votes but Colon's 21-8 record won it for him, the fact that his ERA and WHIP wasn't too grand seems to of been missed by the voters...

Mattpat11
11-08-05, 01:04 PM
Just sets up A-Rod for the MVP

38Special
11-08-05, 01:04 PM
1st 2nd 3rd Points
Bartolo Colon, Angels 17 11 0 118
Mariano Rivera, Yankees 8 7 7 68
Johan Santana, Twins 3 8 12 51
Cliff Lee, Indians 2 2 8
Mark Buehrle, White Sox 5 5
Jon Garland, White Sox 1 1
Kevin Millwood, Indians 1 1

chelloveck
11-08-05, 01:05 PM
lame!

gdn
11-08-05, 01:05 PM
Wow. That's absurd. The only thing he had going for him was wins.

BaseballFan13
11-08-05, 01:05 PM
link/source? I couldn't find it...

JDPNYY
11-08-05, 01:06 PM
They should think about putting an end to these awards.

chelloveck
11-08-05, 01:06 PM
Just sets up A-Rod for the MVP

or another yankee in 2nd place

Sheff_Rod
11-08-05, 01:06 PM
:lol: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: ...

Yanks Lifer
11-08-05, 01:06 PM
Is anyone ever gonna give relievers anything?


Very disappointing for Mo. Without guys like him to finish the job, the Colons of the world wouldn't win close to 20 games. :dunno:

Sheff_Rod
11-08-05, 01:07 PM
I wasn't expecting Mo to win the Cy, I thought Santana deserved it. I wanted Cano to win ROY but I know he didn't deserve it. A-Rod better win the MVP, cause he does deserve it.

Mattpat11
11-08-05, 01:08 PM
link/source? I couldn't find it...mlb.com

gdn
11-08-05, 01:08 PM
link/source? I couldn't find it...

http://www.mlb.com

DiMaggio5CF
11-08-05, 01:08 PM
If the starter vs the reliever means that much, then the position vs DH has to mean the same because it's really pretty comparable.

To me, this means that A-Rod has to win the MVP.

Don Mattingly
11-08-05, 01:09 PM
totally agree and i think it will happen!

Colon is Jabba the Hut.

Rivera needs to have a .42 ERA with 97 Saves to get those jackasses to vote for him.

hobokenfish
11-08-05, 01:10 PM
It's a damn shame. This was probably Mo's best chance, and he didn't even come close in terms of points. He deserved the award. But I guess the his era needed to be below 1....

Mattpat11
11-08-05, 01:11 PM
It's a damn shame. This was probably Mo's best chance, and he didn't even come close in terms of points. He deserved the award. But I guess the his era needed to be below 1....What he needed was to not be a Yankee

gdn
11-08-05, 01:12 PM
C'mon, though. How many people really expected him to win. We wished he would, but deep down we all knew he wouldn't.

Don Mattingly
11-08-05, 01:12 PM
I just don't understand how they can give the Cy Young to a pitcher. It makes no sense.

Next thing you know, they will want a DH to be the MVP.

hobokenfish
11-08-05, 01:12 PM
To me, this means that A-Rod has to win the MVP.

To be honest, I don't even care if A-Rod wins MVP. He already has one, and has a chance for more. On the other hand, Mo has never won Cy Young and this was his best shot. He probably won't get the chance at another one, and he really deserved it this year.

Rice14
11-08-05, 01:12 PM
1st 2nd 3rd Points
Bartolo Colon, Angels 17 11 0 118
Mariano Rivera, Yankees 8 7 7 68
Johan Santana, Twins 3 8 12 51
Cliff Lee, Indians 2 2 8
Mark Buehrle, White Sox 5 5
Jon Garland, White Sox 1 1
Kevin Millwood, Indians 1 1


Only three people got it right.

LuckyLopez
11-08-05, 01:12 PM
What he needed was to not be a Yankee
Kind of a silly claim considering Santana has as much a case of being robbed, don't you think? Colon didn't deserve the award but neither Mariano or Santana got the credit they deserved and Mariano still beat out Santana.

Mattpat11
11-08-05, 01:13 PM
More of a reaction to the "anybody but a Yankee" movement of the last 20 or so years than anything else

LuckyLopez
11-08-05, 01:14 PM
Fair enough. Sorry for the knee jerk.

pedromartinezfan
11-08-05, 01:18 PM
Mo didn't deserve it. Closers just don't pitch enough.

Colon winning? Bull.................

Mattpat11
11-08-05, 01:19 PM
Mo didn't deserve it. Closers just don't pitch enough.

It depends on how you view the Cy Young, I suppose. Best pitcher, most important pitcher or most valuable pitcher.

MiamiKat
11-08-05, 01:19 PM
I finally saw the 2005 stats for all pitchers being considered.

That Colon got the Cy is a freakin' joke. He's not even in the top 3 for starting pitchers, and he falls even further down when Mariano is added into the mix.

I Love Wang
11-08-05, 01:21 PM
Best pitcher, most important pitcher or most valuable pitcher.

By all three counts, the answer is Johan Santana. He was robbed. Colon sucks.

gdn
11-08-05, 01:22 PM
By all three counts, the answer is Johan Santana. He was robbed. Colon sucks.

Colon once gave up 3HRs in a game! To the same guy! :eek:

pedromartinezfan
11-08-05, 01:25 PM
According to WXRL, Rivera wasn't even the most valuable reliever.

gdn
11-08-05, 01:25 PM
According to WXRL, Rivera wasn't even the most valuable reliever.

What's WXRL?

Mystic Merlyn
11-08-05, 01:26 PM
Rivera did not deserve this award.

Neither did Colon.

Shoulda been Santana.

cuban_yanksfan
11-08-05, 01:27 PM
Is anyone ever gonna give relievers anything?

Oh sure, they get the very prestigeous...

Rolaids Relief Man of the Year

now he'll have 4 of them! :boring:
:barf:

pedromartinezfan
11-08-05, 01:30 PM
What's WXRL?It's another one of my favorite statistics from www.baseballprospectus.com.

WXRL: Expected wins added over a replacement level pitcher, adjusted for level of opposing hitters. WXRL combines the individual adjustments for replacement level (WXR) and quality of the opposing lineup (WXL) to the basic WX calculation.

It is based on

WX: Expected wins added over an average pitcher. WX uses win expectancy calculations to assess how relievers have changed the outcome of games. Win expectancy looks at the inning, score, and runners on base when the reliever entered the game, and determines the probability of the team winning the game from that point with an average pitcher. Then it looks at how the reliever actually did, and how that changes the probability of winning. The difference between how the reliever improved the chances of winning and how an average pitcher would is his WX.

and

WXL: Expected wins added over an average pitcher, adjusted for level of opposing hitters faced. WXL factors in the MLVr of the actual batters faced by the relievers. Then, like WX, WXL uses win expectancy calculations to assess how relievers have changed the outcome of games.

and

WXR: Expected wins added over a replacement level pitcher. WXR uses win expectancy calculations to assess how relievers have changed the outcome of games, similar to WX. However, instead of comparing the pitcher's performance to an average pitcher, he is compared to a replacement level pitcher to determine WXR.

gdn
11-08-05, 01:34 PM
It's another one of my favorite statistics from www.baseballprospectus.com (http://www.baseballprospectus.com).

WXRL: Expected wins added over a replacement level pitcher, adjusted for level of opposing hitters. WXRL combines the individual adjustments for replacement level (WXR) and quality of the opposing lineup (WXL) to the basic WX calculation.

It is based on

WX: Expected wins added over an average pitcher. WX uses win expectancy calculations to assess how relievers have changed the outcome of games. Win expectancy looks at the inning, score, and runners on base when the reliever entered the game, and determines the probability of the team winning the game from that point with an average pitcher. Then it looks at how the reliever actually did, and how that changes the probability of winning. The difference between how the reliever improved the chances of winning and how an average pitcher would is his WX.

and

WXL: Expected wins added over an average pitcher, adjusted for level of opposing hitters faced. WXL factors in the MLVr of the actual batters faced by the relievers. Then, like WX, WXL uses win expectancy calculations to assess how relievers have changed the outcome of games.

and

WXR: Expected wins added over a replacement level pitcher. WXR uses win expectancy calculations to assess how relievers have changed the outcome of games, similar to WX. However, instead of comparing the pitcher's performance to an average pitcher, he is compared to a replacement level pitcher to determine WXR.

Thanks so much for the info.


I thought WXRL was the call letters for a radio station :p

hobokenfish
11-08-05, 01:45 PM
According to WXRL, Rivera wasn't even the most valuable reliever.

According to WFAN, he deserved the award. :D

I Love Wang
11-08-05, 02:11 PM
According to WXRL, Rivera wasn't even the most valuable reliever.

Good for WXRL. I can't find a single reference online to explain how WXRL is calculated. So, when it tells me something that doesn't make sense, I'm going to disagree with it, and be content. Rivera had a better BAA and ERA than Street in the same number of innings, and his ERA+ was better by about 60 points.

Soriambi
11-08-05, 02:14 PM
Congrats to Colon, who had a pretty good year, but the choice is a joke. He was nowhere even near Santana this year. He wasn't great, he just had a pretty good year. It shouldn't have even been close. (And I suppose it wasn't, it just wasn't close in the wrong direction.) I just don't see how only three writers can see that Santana was clearly better. Just about every single measure of their ability OTHER than wins is clearly in Santana's favor. Whatever.

27IsNext
11-08-05, 02:26 PM
Santana got robbed. Mariano even deserved it more than Colon.

Babe Rules
11-08-05, 02:29 PM
Mo should have won the Cy Young.

Nebema
11-08-05, 04:17 PM
Very disappointing for Mo. Without guys like him to finish the job, the Colons of the world wouldn't win close to 20 games. :dunno:




Very well said , I am thinking they should make the Rolaids Fireman Award a MLB award and or create an award for Outstanding Relief pitcher.

Wang's Groundballs
11-08-05, 05:03 PM
Santana got robbed. I would pick at least 5 other pitchers for Cy Young over Colon, and at least 1 from his own team.

yanksphan
11-08-05, 05:13 PM
Baseball Think Factory (http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/primate_studies/discussion/btf_awards_2005_al_cy_young_award/) saw it this way...



RK Player PTS Bal 1 2 3
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Santana, Johan 91 19 17 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Buehrle, Mark 35 17 9 8
3 Rivera, Mariano 27 9 3 3 3
4 Colon, Bartolo 16 8 4 4
5 Lackey, John 6 2 2
6T Garland, Jon 2 2 2
6T Millwood, Kevin 2 2 2
8 Halladay, Roy 1 1 1 </pre>

Mystic Merlyn
11-08-05, 07:59 PM
I'd love to hear why Rivera deserves the Cy Young, apart from the fact that he pitches for the Yankees.

Circle Change
11-08-05, 09:00 PM
Sorry, but I can't congratulate Bartolo Colon for winning the AL Cy Young. It was handed to him.

Dooley Womack
11-08-05, 11:42 PM
Undeserved. It should have been Mo's.

Dooley Womack
11-08-05, 11:44 PM
I'd love to hear why Rivera deserves the Cy Young, apart from the fact that he pitches for the Yankees.

You could start with the numbers and Mo's overall dominance throughout the season. Colon was barely dominant and his record is more a product of good run support.

NYYBombshell
11-08-05, 11:44 PM
I'd love to hear why Rivera deserves the Cy Young, apart from the fact that he pitches for the Yankees.


Ummmm, because he was better than Colon? If Santana had won, most people wouldn't disagree with Mo being 2nd because Mo wasn't better than Johan.

But Colon?

Come on. Look at the numbers.

Dooley Womack
11-08-05, 11:46 PM
Ummmm, because he was better than Colon? If Santana had won, most people wouldn't disagree with Mo being 2nd because Mo wasn't better than Johan.

But Colon?

Come on. Look at the numbers.

Exactly.

pedromartinezfan
11-09-05, 06:53 AM
Good for WXRL. I can't find a single reference online to explain how WXRL is calculated. So, when it tells me something that doesn't make sense, I'm going to disagree with it, and be content. Rivera had a better BAA and ERA than Street in the same number of innings, and his ERA+ was better by about 60 points.WXRL makes perfect sense. We're talking about the most valuable reliever. When talking about starting pitchers and position players, it is safe to say that the best pitcher (for like 200 innings) or position player (for like 140-150 games) is the most valuable, but not relievers. WXRL factors in a stat called "leverage" which takes into account the score, inning, how many outs there are, and the hitters when the reliever comes into the game.

HouseThatRingsBuild
11-09-05, 10:43 AM
His country gave him a parade.

PaulieIsAwesome
11-09-05, 12:26 PM
WXRL makes perfect sense. We're talking about the most valuable reliever. When talking about starting pitchers and position players, it is safe to say that the best pitcher (for like 200 innings) or position player (for like 140-150 games) is the most valuable, but not relievers. WXRL factors in a stat called "leverage" which takes into account the score, inning, how many outs there are, and the hitters when the reliever comes into the game.

But leverage is not a perfect stat itself. There are a number of flaws with win expectancy stats.

Mystic Merlyn
11-09-05, 01:53 PM
Ummmm, because he was better than Colon? If Santana had won, most people wouldn't disagree with Mo being 2nd because Mo wasn't better than Johan.

But Colon?

Come on. Look at the numbers.

When the heck did I say Colon should've won? I believe earlier in this thread I said Santana should've won.

Of course, actually reading the thread would be necessary.

Circle Change
11-15-05, 08:08 PM
It doesn't matter.

JDPNYY
11-15-05, 10:01 PM
I still can't believe Santana didn't win.

Circle Change
11-20-05, 09:18 PM
I still can't believe Santana didn't win.

Why not?