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Little Big Sheff
10-10-05, 11:28 AM
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2005_t.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL_2005_t.shtml

Rodriguez second in OPS+ behind Pronk.
Santana with the big lead over Milwood in ERA+

Andruw Jones is not even a top 10 OPS / OPS+.
Clemens ERA+ is 221, a fifty points lead over the second, Andy Pettitte.

And a lot more ...

Snatch Catch
10-10-05, 11:40 AM
I've been going throught the stats and ignoring all work since I found out...

lem
10-10-05, 11:45 AM
It's like Christmas day.

S2
10-10-05, 11:55 AM
That just made my day.

JDPNYY
10-10-05, 11:56 AM
I don't recall it being updated so quickly after the regular season in the past.

Snatch Catch
10-10-05, 12:14 PM
ERA+ for Yankees and Sox pitching staffs (the important guys).


Johnson 117 Schilling 77

Mussina 101 Wells 99

Pavano 93 Clement 96

Brown 68 Wakefield 106

Wright 73 Arroyo 98

Wang 111 Miller 89

Small 139 Dinardo 239

Chacon 156 Bradford 114

Leiter 81 Halama 71

Sturtze 94 Paplebon 166

F-Rod 89 Gonzalez 72

Proctor 74 Mantei 68

Paul Q 66 Myers 141

Groom 91 Embree 58

Embree 59 Timlin 197

Gordon 173 Foulke 75

Mariano 323


Further illustrates just how good the offenses for each team were.

S2
10-10-05, 12:20 PM
Mariano 323
At 35, his best season yet. Unreal. Can he retire, now?

And Embree with a 58 ERA+ for Boston, 59 for New York. I guess he's an equal oppurtuninty horrible pitcher.

RhodeyYankee2638
10-10-05, 12:22 PM
At 35, his best season yet. Unreal. Can he retire, now?

And Embree with a 58 ERA+ for Boston, 59 for New York. I guess he's an equal oppurtuninty horrible pitcher.

I was looking at that too. exactly 203 points higher than Bartolo's ERA+;)

Snatch Catch
10-10-05, 12:29 PM
I was looking at that too. exactly 203 points higher than Bartolo's ERA+;)

Colon: 120

Randy: 117


There is NO WAY Batolo deserves the Cy. NONE.

Workhorse
10-10-05, 12:32 PM
Interesting that Yankee Stadium played as a bigger hitters park than Fenway this season...

CTSoxFan
10-10-05, 12:33 PM
I've always liked "Adjusted OPS+" as a one-stop shopping sort of statistic. So with that in mind, let's all hail the undisputed Most Valuable Player of the American League...















...Travis Hafner? Damn, that lad had a good year.

JDPNYY
10-10-05, 12:35 PM
I've always liked "Adjusted OPS+" as a one-stop shopping sort of statistic. So with that in mind, let's all hail the undisputed Most Valuable Player of the American League...















...Travis Hafner? Damn, that lad had a good year.

Nah, he doesn't play defense.

sox jedi 14
10-10-05, 12:36 PM
Nah, he doesn't play defense.

He should get bonus points for his nickname being "Pronk" though.

I Love Wang
10-10-05, 12:36 PM
He should get bonus points for his nickname being "Pronk" though.

I agree with this.

S2
10-10-05, 12:37 PM
Nah, he doesn't play defense.He started 1 game at 1B, and made no errors. Isn't that how Raffy got his GG a few years ago?

CTSoxFan
10-10-05, 12:38 PM
This is my favorite section:

Salary
Rodriguez-NYY 26000000
Ramirez-BOS 22000000
Jeter-NYY 19600000
Mussina-NYY 19000000
Sosa-BAL 17000000
Johnson-NYY 16000000
Brown-NYY 15714286
Park-TEX 15000000
Schilling-BOS 14500000
Giambi-NYY 13428571

Cashman and Epstein clearly aren't getting the job done: only eight of the top ten salary spots between them! Pry open the wallets, you cheap bastards!

JDPNYY
10-10-05, 12:39 PM
He should get bonus points for his nickname being "Pronk" though.

That IS an excellent point.

Workhorse
10-10-05, 12:41 PM
Wow, looking at the peripheral team stats, the Brewers have an awful lot to look forward to. Top 6 in both OPS+ and ERA+ in the National League. That surprised me.

CTSoxFan
10-10-05, 12:41 PM
He should get bonus points for his nickname being "Pronk" though.

Tough call there...Pronk vs. Florida Evans.

I Love Wang
10-10-05, 12:42 PM
That IS an excellent point.

A-Rod is too nondescript. Big Papi is too mindlessly derivative. But Pronk? Hilarious, misunderstood, and makes him sound like an Ogre, which he resembles. Perfect.

VFBundy
10-10-05, 12:42 PM
I don't like this, though:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2005.shtml

See anything wrong?

CTSoxFan
10-10-05, 12:45 PM
I don't like this, though:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2005.shtml

See anything wrong?

Add this to the vast right-wing conspiracy...

It's just the alphabet, guys. Most people who are listing two teams with the same number of wins will list them alphabetically. No one (except, of course, John Henry) will attach any other meaning to it.

Snatch Catch
10-10-05, 12:47 PM
A-Rod is too nondescript. Big Papi is too mindlessly derivative. But Pronk? Hilarious, misunderstood, and makes him sound like an Ogre, which he resembles. Perfect.

Pronk is actually derived from the fact that he looks like a donkey.

Its a combination of the words "project" and "donkey."

I think its faily safe to assume that Hafner is no longer a project...

VFBundy
10-10-05, 12:49 PM
Add this to the vast right-wing conspiracy...

It's just the alphabet, guys. Most people who are listing two teams with the same number of wins will list them alphabetically. No one (except, of course, John Henry) will attach any other meaning to it.No conspiracy therories here. It's just wrong is all.

Little Big Sheff
10-10-05, 12:51 PM
I just realized Mariano was 323.

323 !!!!!!

Only once in my life have I rooted for a team that featured such a ridiculous athlete (not coincidentally, the other guy also was kinda bald), and it has come to a point where I am starting to wonder (Oh Dad forgive me for this) whether that "other guy" won't end up being #2 on my most-loved list.

I can't believe I have just written that last sentence

CTSoxFan
10-10-05, 12:55 PM
No conspiracy therories here. It's just wrong is all.

You mean "B" doesn't come before "N"? ;)

Snatch Catch
10-10-05, 01:02 PM
I just realized Mariano was 323.

323 !!!!!!

Only once in my life have I rooted for a team that featured such a ridiculous athlete (not coincidentally, the other guy also was kinda bald), and it has come to a point where I am starting to wonder (Oh Dad forgive me for this) whether that "other guy" won't end up being #2 on my most-loved list.

I can't believe I have just written that last sentence


Gagne's was 335 in his Cy year.

Eck's was 606 in 1990... :jaw-drop:




As far as the other "kinda bald" dominant athlete you're talking about goes, I was a big fan, too.

http://sidesalad.net/archives/BillMurrayInKingpinJpg.jpg

PaulieIsAwesome
10-10-05, 01:20 PM
Oh man. I'm not going to get any work done today.

PaulieIsAwesome
10-10-05, 01:26 PM
YS's park factor was 103 this year. That's incredible. What do we all think that's a function of?

Note: this isn't even the 1 year PF. BR only prints the 3 year PF, and this year's data swung it from 96 or so last year to 103 this year.

Also, how about Cincinatti being the best offense in the NL (107 OPS+) thanks to a good (but, still, not great, season from Adam Dunn- I want to see this kid mash one year) and a good season from Junior.

Last point: That's two straight OPS+ titles for Hafner. You'd never hear about it on ESPN, but that's a very nice accomplishment.

PirateChief
10-10-05, 01:48 PM
Proves Mo needs to be the Cy Young. Look at Buerhle's hits allowed! Jesus!

PaulieIsAwesome
10-10-05, 02:03 PM
Ok: my last post on this thread until I finish my paper:

By ERA+, Roger had the 7th best season by a pitcher since 1950 (6th is the 1997 version of Roger.) I'm going to look into this further, but I think Roger might be the only pitcher in history with two distinct peaks (and damn they are good.)

Smoltz's season this year was as good as his Cy season of 1996. I think he proved why he's a HOF this year.

And one of my favorite discussions:
Mark Mulder, 205 IP, 1.59 K/BB, 1.38 WHIP, 117 ERA+, $6,050,000, 27 years old
Dan Haren, 217 IP, 3.08 K/BB, 1.22 WHIP, 120 ERA+, $323,000, 24 years old

Snatch Catch
10-10-05, 02:05 PM
And one of my favorite discussions:
Mark Mulder, 205 IP, 1.59 K/BB, 1.38 WHIP, 117 ERA+, $6,050,000, 27 years old
Dan Haren, 217 IP, 3.08 K/BB, 1.22 WHIP, 120 ERA+, $323,000, 24 years old

YES! My Mulder is Overated Train gains more momentum!

Workhorse
10-10-05, 02:06 PM
Jose Reyes had nearly SEVEN-HUNDRED at-bats this year with a .300 OBP.

That's criminal.

I Love Wang
10-10-05, 02:08 PM
Ok: my last post on this thread until I finish my paper:

By ERA+, Roger had the 7th best season by a pitcher since 1950 (6th is the 1997 version of Roger.) I'm going to look into this further, but I think Roger might be the only pitcher in history with two distinct peaks (and damn they are good.)

Smoltz's season this year was as good as his Cy season of 1996. I think he proved why he's a HOF this year.

And one of my favorite discussions:
Mark Mulder, 205 IP, 1.59 K/BB, 1.38 WHIP, 117 ERA+, $6,050,000, 27 years old
Dan Haren, 217 IP, 3.08 K/BB, 1.22 WHIP, 120 ERA+, $323,000, 24 years old

But at least Jocketty managed to dump Barton and Calero onto the hapless Billy Beane.

This should just go to show everybody how good a GM John Schuerholz is. Jocketty is, if I'm not mistaken, the guy who traded Adam Kennedy and Kent Bottenfield for Jim Edmonds, and he clearly got KILLED in this deal. Schuerholz, in trading for Hudson, generally considered the better of the two pitchers, gave up a 26 year old AAA outfielder, a guy who MIGHT become a decent reliever, and an ok pitching prospect.

Snatch Catch
10-10-05, 02:09 PM
Jose Reyes had nearly SEVEN-HUNDRED at-bats this year with a .300 OBP.

That's criminal.

2005 OPS+ = 80


:barf:

Arrest that man!

ring403
10-10-05, 02:14 PM
Arrest that man!
And his manager for allowing him to get almost 700 AB's.

Snatch Catch
10-10-05, 02:18 PM
And his manager for allowing him to get almost 700 AB's.


Does an OPS+ of 47 over 350 AB's carry the same penalties?

If so, I think the Yankees may be without the skip tonight...

apolansk
10-10-05, 02:27 PM
Does an OPS+ of 47 over 350 AB's carry the same penalties?

If so, I think the Yankees may be without the skip tonight...

One manager may have learned from the other manager.

PaulieIsAwesome
10-10-05, 02:37 PM
But at least Jocketty managed to dump Barton and Calero onto the hapless Billy Beane.

This should just go to show everybody how good a GM John Schuerholz is. Jocketty is, if I'm not mistaken, the guy who traded Adam Kennedy and Kent Bottenfield for Jim Edmonds, and he clearly got KILLED in this deal. Schuerholz, in trading for Hudson, generally considered the better of the two pitchers, gave up a 26 year old AAA outfielder, a guy who MIGHT become a decent reliever, and an ok pitching prospect.

Yes, it does show that Schuerholz is great. Though, going into the season, Dan Meyer was considered better than an OK pitching prospect: 29th best prospect according to BP, 17 according to Hardball Times. Sickels considered him the top A's prospect before the season, above Daric Barton, Huston Street, Nick Swisher, Joe Blanton and Dan Johnson. He was considered "one of the best southpaw pitching prospects in all of baseball" (Hardball Times.)

He just got hurt. Of course, knowing how smart the Braves are with pitching, they might have seen it coming.

PaulieIsAwesome
10-10-05, 02:39 PM
Does an OPS+ of 47 over 350 AB's carry the same penalties?

If so, I think the Yankees may be without the skip tonight...

Even Cristian Guzman finished better than Womack (though Tony didn't get many opportunities down the stretch) with a 55 OPS+.

Also, I was going to criticize you for using AB's instead of PA's (and the 351 number is his PA, not his AB) but then I remembered he never walks.

Snatch Catch
10-10-05, 02:48 PM
Even Cristian Guzman finished better than Womack (though Tony didn't get many opportunities down the stretch) with a 55 OPS+.

That was actually the first thing I checked after seeing Tony's number. I have to say, I was actually happy to see he won the MFP (Most Futile Player).


Also, I was going to criticize you for using AB's instead of PA's (and the 351 number is his PA, not his AB) but then I remembered he never walks.

:lol: I actually got the PA number, but wrote AB by accident.

I Love Wang
10-10-05, 02:50 PM
Prospectus has Tony's VORP at -9.1...

ring403
10-10-05, 02:50 PM
Does an OPS+ of 47 over 350 AB's carry the same penalties?

If so, I think the Yankees may be without the skip tonight...
Only half the AB's, though. A good lawyer could probably get Torre house arrest. Willie, on the other hand, is looking at hard time.

ChewieTobbacca
10-10-05, 02:56 PM
I looked at the NL and realized that Pujols was #2 in every rate category AGAIN!

The one year Bonds is out Lee decides to have a career a year

I Love Wang
10-10-05, 02:57 PM
Reyes' VORP is 30.1, largely due to him being a fantastic base stealer. Renteria's is 26.6.

Snatch Catch
10-10-05, 02:58 PM
I looked at the NL and realized that Pujols was #2 in every rate category AGAIN!

The one year Bonds is out Lee decides to have a career a year

I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that Lee is the NL MVP...

Better year at the plate AND GG defense as the cherry on top.

ChewieTobbacca
10-10-05, 03:03 PM
A. Jones deserves to be nowhere near the MVP

I would have no problem with either Lee or Pujols winning MVP but A. Jones winning it will be a crime

Little Big Sheff
10-10-05, 05:23 PM
I looked at the NL and realized that Pujols was #2 in every rate category AGAIN!

The one year Bonds is out Lee decides to have a career a year

Still, the people will vote for Jones :eek:
(I repeat, not even top 10 in OPS / OPS+)

Galapagos
10-10-05, 05:27 PM
Still, the people will vote for Jones :eek:
(I repeat, not even top 10 in OPS / OPS+)

How is his clutchitudinous index? Answer: probably really good.

Little Big Sheff
10-10-05, 05:28 PM
Snatch Catch and Little Big Sheff present the "this criminally underrated guy would be a good fit for the Yankees, and the hell with youth and defense" 2006 offseason campaign.

Brian.
Giles.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/gilesbr02.shtml

Third in the NL in OBP
First in the NL in BB
Fifth in the NL in OPS+

And then, the punchline :
119 walks for 64 strikeouts.
119 and 64 !!!
That's nearly two walks for one strikeout.

Can you spell "I want to hit between Jeter and A-Rod"?

RhodeyYankee2638
10-10-05, 05:35 PM
I looked at the NL and realized that Pujols was #2 in every rate category AGAIN!

The one year Bonds is out Lee decides to have a career a year

If forget who said it, but I think it was either Bonds or Mays who stated Pujols was overrated because he didn't have a position. I thought that was pretty funny.

PaulieIsAwesome
10-10-05, 05:37 PM
Snatch Catch and Little Big Sheff present the "this criminally underrated guy would be a good fit for the Yankees, and the hell with youth and defense" 2006 offseason campaign.

Brian.
Giles.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/gilesbr02.shtml

Third in the NL in OBP
First in the NL in BB
Fifth in the NL in OPS+

And then, the punchline :
119 walks for 64 strikeouts.
119 and 64 !!!
That's nearly two walks for one strikeout.

Can you spell "I want to hit between Jeter and A-Rod"?

And, umm, his defense might not be that bad: -5 FRAA this year, but he was right near league average in right, and would be a massive upgrade defensively in center.

I love Giles. I always feel bad for him that he never gets the credit he deserves.

I Love Wang
10-10-05, 05:38 PM
Snatch Catch and Little Big Sheff present the "this criminally underrated guy would be a good fit for the Yankees, and the hell with youth and defense" 2006 offseason campaign.

Brian.
Giles.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/gilesbr02.shtml

Third in the NL in OBP
First in the NL in BB
Fifth in the NL in OPS+

And then, the punchline :
119 walks for 64 strikeouts.
119 and 64 !!!
That's nearly two walks for one strikeout.

Can you spell "I want to hit between Jeter and A-Rod"?

The fact that he's been so underrated for so long should knock his price down, as should his declining power. But he's still an OBP maniac, a good baserunner, and a solid defender. I'd give him 3 years, 27mil. I don't see anyone topping that. Maybe 30mil.

ICEBERG18
10-10-05, 05:40 PM
Snatch Catch and Little Big Sheff present the "this criminally underrated guy would be a good fit for the Yankees, and the hell with youth and defense" 2006 offseason campaign.

Brian.
Giles.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/gilesbr02.shtml

Third in the NL in OBP
First in the NL in BB
Fifth in the NL in OPS+

And then, the punchline :
119 walks for 64 strikeouts.
119 and 64 !!!
That's nearly two walks for one strikeout.

Can you spell "I want to hit between Jeter and A-Rod"?

http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=89791&page=3&pp=45 Post #110

ICEBERG18
10-10-05, 05:44 PM
Jeter
Giles
A-rod
Giambi
Sheff
Matsui
Posada
Cano
DH?
I fell dirty writing out that lineup. ;)

Little Big Sheff
10-10-05, 05:45 PM
The fact that he's been so underrated for so long should knock his price down, as should his declining power. But he's still an OBP maniac, a good baserunner, and a solid defender. I'd give him 3 years, 27mil. I don't see anyone topping that. Maybe 30mil.

I was thinking about something like that : 3 years, 8 per. Lots of people focus on his diminishing power, when I believe Petco may be the real reason (he was second in the NL in doubles [45] and sixth in triples [6]).

Put him in the #2 slot on these Yankees, and I can guarantee you he'll make very frequent visits to home plate.

He'd play LF to allow a re-signed Matsui CF, and/or sharing RF&DH duties with Sheffield, who needs to play the field a lot less. The offensive upgrade he would bring to the table would be enough for me to tolerate Matsui in center.

Little Big Sheff
10-10-05, 05:47 PM
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=89791&page=3&pp=45 Post #110

http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=89703&page=2&pp=45

Post #48 :D

Cuban Connection
10-10-05, 05:56 PM
Proves Mo needs to be the Cy Young. Look at Buerhle's hits allowed! Jesus!
He also faced the most batters, and had one of the lowest BB/9 ratio.

I Love Wang
10-10-05, 05:58 PM
I was thinking about something like that : 3 years, 8 per. Lots of people focus on his diminishing power, when I believe Petco may be the real reason (he was second in the NL in doubles [45] and sixth in triples [6]).

Put him in the #2 slot on these Yankees, and I can guarantee you he'll make very frequent visits to home plate.

He'd play LF to allow a re-signed Matsui CF, and/or sharing RF&DH duties with Sheffield, who needs to play the field a lot less. The offensive upgrade he would bring to the table would be enough for me to tolerate Matsui in center.

I would let Bubba Crosby or Kevin Thompson play CF and DH Sheffield. Or I'd try to find some ok player for CF.

pedromartinezfan
10-10-05, 06:02 PM
I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that Lee is the NL MVP...

Better year at the plate AND GG defense as the cherry on top.
I've been saying it all year.

Snatch Catch
10-10-05, 06:06 PM
I've been saying it all year.

Well, you are right.

I've been considering both, but leaning towards Pujols for sentimental reasons, unfortunately.

Snatch Catch
10-10-05, 06:07 PM
Snatch Catch and Little Big Sheff present the "this criminally underrated guy would be a good fit for the Yankees, and the hell with youth and defense" 2006 offseason campaign.

Brian.
Giles.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/gilesbr02.shtml

Third in the NL in OBP
First in the NL in BB
Fifth in the NL in OPS+

And then, the punchline :
119 walks for 64 strikeouts.
119 and 64 !!!
That's nearly two walks for one strikeout.

Can you spell "I want to hit between Jeter and A-Rod"?


I am Snatch Catch, and I support this message.

Bob Saccomano
10-10-05, 11:24 PM
Wow, looking at the peripheral team stats, the Brewers have an awful lot to look forward to. Top 6 in both OPS+ and ERA+ in the National League. That surprised me.

Yep. They got to .500 for the first time since 92 (I believe) this year. Incidentally, that puts them above the Cubs in the final NL Central standings :D :D :D :D :D. Milwaukee is an organization on the way up.

Bob Saccomano
10-10-05, 11:27 PM
Jeter
Giles
A-rod
Giambi
Sheff
Matsui
Posada
Cano
DH?
I fell dirty writing out that lineup. ;)

:drool: So long as it's a 3 year contract, nothing more. I wonder how bad the shakeup in the offseason is going to be...

hardrain
10-11-05, 02:11 PM
I had forgotten what a good year Tony Clark had in that small park.

Snatch Catch
10-12-05, 09:46 PM
Carlos Beltran 2005 OPS+:

95

Snatch Catch
10-13-05, 05:41 PM
Matt Murton, the "throw in" minor leaguer in the Nomar deal, had a 135 OPS+ in approx. 50 games.

scull567
10-13-05, 05:43 PM
Matt Murton, the "throw in" minor leaguer in the Nomar deal, had a 135 OPS+ in approx. 50 games.

Yea, I saw that. He looks like he's going to become a pretty good player. I'd take him over Nixon. I don't know why Dusty didn't play him more down the stretch when clearly the cubs were going no where.