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Gator
05-08-01, 12:49 AM
Kevin Brown. As far as durability, consistency, and pure stuff. Greg Maddux is the runner up.

I'll gladly debate this with Red Sox fans ad nauseam

Slippery Elm
05-08-01, 01:28 AM
Maddux is only 10-9 in the post season. He doesn't excite me in clutch situations.

CJM
05-08-01, 05:41 AM
That's an argument you will lose.Kevin Brown?Please.

Pedro is the best,I don't care how much you hate him.It's not even close.

orangemom
05-08-01, 06:36 AM
Gotta agree with CJM. Pedro is pretty intimidating, as much as I hate him.

Ct.Fan
05-08-01, 06:53 AM
Pedro...without a doubt.

Ansky39
05-08-01, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by CJM
That's an argument you will lose.Kevin Brown?Please.

Pedro is the best,I don't care how much you hate him.It's not even close.

ditto...

Nome
05-08-01, 07:47 AM
You have to appreciate great baseball no matter what team he plays for.

Pedro

Shel
05-08-01, 09:19 AM
Though I despise him, I have to agree with those who've said Pedro is the best.

The rest of the Red Sox are drek, but Pedro is phenomenal. :D

Dynasty2000
05-08-01, 10:12 AM
I hate the guy and I hate the team---I've hated the Redsox my entire life BUT as a fan of baseball I have to admit that the BEST & most baffling pitcher in all of baseball is by far PEDR:mad: MARTINEZ. I mean no matter how much you hate the guy (and trust me, I really hate him), you still have to admit that the things the man does are just mind boggling. He makes me wonder if he's even human.

Stick Michael
05-08-01, 10:57 AM
If were pitching game 7 of the World Series who would you want starting for your team - Kevin Brown, Greg Maddux or Pedro Martinez? I love to have this problem if I were the manager but if all the chips are on the table I'm going with Pedro.

James

SanFrANSKY
05-08-01, 11:55 AM
Pedro is ... a righthanded Sandy Koufax.

Gator
05-08-01, 12:58 PM
That's why I said durability...if we're just talking about pure stuff, of course it's Pedro.

TheMoose35
05-08-01, 02:27 PM
I dislike the team and dislike the player, but its Pedro.

rajah
05-08-01, 02:56 PM
Pedro is the best now. Maddux was a few years ago.


Even though I root against the Red Sox as a Yankee fan living in Boston who is amazed by the pathetic obsession that Red Sox fans have with the Yankees, I do not dislike most Red Sox players. And I certainly can appreciate the greatness of Pedro, as well as that of Nomar and Manny. They have three great players now.

allybear
05-08-01, 04:40 PM
If I was pitching game 7 of a World Series, I'd have Maddux pitch - he's been there before and I'd just feel most comfortable with him in that spot.

If I just needed someone to blow a team away during the regular season...no question, Pedro.

Kevin Brown is also one heckuva pitcher, and another guy that I can't believe hasn't been mentioned is The Big Unit - he may be getting older, but his stuff is still nasty!

#1PaFan
05-08-01, 05:28 PM
Pedro....It's not even close.

madforyanks
05-12-01, 08:42 AM
Pedro--regular season, post-season (remember what he did to the Indians in the '99 Division Series). Just Pedro, any old time!

#1Coneyfan
05-12-01, 09:21 AM
Gotta go with Pedro and put my love of the game over my personal feelings. Unfortunately the man is never going to get to the Big Show unless he blows off the Blow Sux.

Rocketman
05-12-01, 10:54 AM
I absolutely love Kevin Brown. After Clemens, he's my favorite pitcher to watch, and he's a tough SOB.

However, Pedro is the best pitcher, by far- and I have the stats to prove it.

Last year Pedro Martinez almost silently had the best season by a starter in history. What exactly did he do?

ERA+ is a sabermetric which measures ERA, adjusted to your home ballpark, and then put in percentage vs. the league average. This basically tells you how much better or worse a pitcher was than the LEAGUE AVERAGE PITCHER.

Last season the #2 pitcher in ERA+ was a guy named Randy Johnson. He was an incredible 77% better than the average NL pitcher... amazing! Brown was not too far behind.

But Pedro? Well all he did was set a new record for starters with a 185% better than average ERA, adjusted. That's right, ONE HUNDRED EIGHTY FIVE PERCENT. He was so good that there was nothing CLOSE. Bob Gibson's 1968 season had a lower ERA+, same with Roger Clemens in all of his illustrious seasons. Lefty Grove never had a season like this. Neither did Christy Matthewson, nor did Cy Young. And perhaps most shockingly, neither did Sandy Koufax.

But this isn't all of it. There are really two statistics which can show how good a pitcher is: one is ERA (adjusted even better!) and the other is WHIP. WHIP stands for Walks + Hits / 9 IP, though you might see it as simply Walks + Hits per innings pitched.

The #2 pitcher in the American League in WHIP was a guy named Mike Mussina. He gave up 10.68 Walks + Hits per nine innings, incredible for the American League and it's DH rule.

Who was #1? Of course, it was Pedro Martinez. How many walks + hits per nine innings did he give up last season? 6.636

How good is that number? Let's take it into historical perspective, shall we? After 1900, the best single season WHIP was Walter Johnson in 1913. He had a 7.023 WHIP. But what about before that? The best was a guy that I'm sure we all know, Guy Hecker, who posted a record 6.923 WHIP in 1882.

What does this mean? It means Pedro literally had the best single season WHIP and single season ERA+ (for starter) in history. The guy absolutely tore up American League hitters, and as great as Kevin Brown is, his season didn't rank close to Pedro. Yes, his WHIP was the best in the NL, by a lot- 8.92. This, however, isn't even CLOSE to nearing Pedro's mark.

I think this discussion is over.

CarolR
05-16-01, 09:46 AM
Pedro.......hands down.. no brainer.....

SPIP

(Someday Pedro in Pinstripes)

sanfranciscojetergirl
05-16-01, 09:54 AM
Pedro !!!

lbyankychk
05-17-01, 06:55 AM
I think Randy Johnson is a great pitcher.

Chris
05-17-01, 08:02 AM
The current best pitcher in baseball is whoever's pitching against the Yanks.

toots
05-17-01, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by chriscary
The current best pitcher in baseball is whoever's pitching against the Yanks.


OUCH!! :(

Dynasty2000
05-17-01, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by chriscary
The current best pitcher in baseball is whoever's pitching against the Yanks.

I hear ya!

I was just telling my brother that our lineup is making every pitcher out there look like Sandy Koufax right now. :)

BUT......our boys will come around.

patrick.o
05-17-01, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by chriscary
The current best pitcher in baseball is whoever's pitching against the Yanks.
You must mean Cy Young. As KLJ pointed out to me once, our line up seems to put him on the mound every night.

As far as best pitcher, even without Rocketman's gaudy numbers I would go with Pedro. He's so much better than everyone else it's amazing.
And I'm not sure why you have questioned his durability, Duque. Everyone keeps waiting for his slender frame to give out on him, but so far he's proven himself to be pretty durable. Perhaps a slight notch down in that department compared to Brown, but not enough of a difference to make up for all the categories in which he's better. And in my humble opinion, he's better in all of the other categories.

mr.roy
05-18-01, 10:44 AM
I'll say Pedro! So will his statistics! They say it very loud in Rocketman's post.

Slippery Elm
05-18-01, 06:07 PM
Going into tonight, Kevin Brown's ERA was about .70 lower than Paydroh's.

Gator
05-18-01, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by Slippery Elm
Going into tonight, Kevin Brown's ERA was about .70 lower than Paydroh's.

Not to mention he's 5-1. And that 1 loss was a game against Curt Schilling where he gave up all of 3 hits. He's also 36. Here's an example of one guy who's gotten better as he's gotten older.

Luvtino
05-18-01, 06:57 PM
Pedro

CJM
05-19-01, 06:55 AM
And Doug Mientkiewicz is hitting about 200 points higher than Bernie.Think he's better?

Trying to say Kevin Brown is better than Pedro Martinez is ridiculous.

patrick.o
05-19-01, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by Slippery Elm
Going into tonight, Kevin Brown's ERA was about .70 lower than Paydroh's.
And going into this morning it's .34 higher.

Circle Change
01-08-05, 12:40 AM
Kevin Brown. As far as durability, consistency, and pure stuff. Greg Maddux is the runner up.

I'll gladly debate this with Red Sox fans ad nauseam

I think I'd rather have Santana.

flymick24
01-08-05, 12:51 AM
I think I'd rather have Santana.

his future looks very promising, but he'll need more than 1 solid year and 1 great year to label himself as the best in the game.

RhodeyYankee2638
01-08-05, 12:58 AM
I was wondering why someone said Brown, then, I looked at the date. Silly silly silly! Santana, Schmidt and Prior are all very dangerous when healthy

bakntime
01-08-05, 01:13 AM
What, exactly, was the point in bumping an almost 4 year old thread, other than baiting?

Circle Change
01-08-05, 01:19 AM
What, exactly, was the point in bumping an almost 4 year old thread, other than baiting?

baiting? It's only received serious replies.

This board has a rather large problem with repetitive threads... this one can be used to discuss the best pitcher in baseball, at which point Yankee fans can probably say they have on their team right now.

I'm ready for the ax, though.

bakntime
01-08-05, 01:22 AM
baiting? It's only received serious replies.

This board has a rather large problem with repititive threads... this one can be used to discuss the best pitcher in baseball, at which point Yankee fans can probably say they have pitching for them right now.Repetitive threads? The thread is 4 years old. You replied completely out of context about how you'd rather have Santana. I think that's pretty obvious in hindsight, now, isn't it?

With all the crap we've gone through with Brown, I honestly don't see the point other than to say "haha, you wanted Brown, and you got him"

It's one thing bumping a thread that's a few days old or a few weeks old rather than starting a new thread, but bumping a four year old thread just to say you'd rather have Santana than Brown seems suspicious to me.

IncredibleByNature
01-08-05, 02:32 AM
For a sec. there I thought Gator had returned, heh.

PippyPinstripes
01-08-05, 08:08 AM
WTF FUNNY

PippyPinstripes
01-08-05, 08:11 AM
baiting? It's only received serious replies.

This board has a rather large problem with repetitive threads... this one can be used to discuss the best pitcher in baseball, at which point Yankee fans can probably say they have on their team right now.

I'm ready for the ax, though.

You put your neck on the block willingly, imo. Dragging up old threads to try and embarrass forumers is lame as hell.

Epy7280
01-08-05, 08:42 AM
whoa lol i thought this was a joke or something until i realized the dates.

Epy7280
01-08-05, 08:43 AM
For a sec. there I thought Gator had returned, heh.

lol :D funny

Evil Empire
01-08-05, 09:40 AM
Confusing as hell. It's a different year now, things have changed. You can't say Santana is the best compared to the 2001 Brown, because he wasn't. Santana was mediocre to lousy back then and and Brown was dominant. Boy things have changed...

Babe Rules
01-08-05, 10:09 AM
Pedro, by far.

Evil Empire
01-08-05, 10:25 AM
Pedro, by far.
Now or then?

JDPNYY
01-08-05, 10:41 AM
Since we're going back to the future (or is it ahead to the past?), I'd like to add Sandy Koufax to the list.

Bernie Inferno
01-08-05, 10:42 AM
Kevin Brown. As far as durability, consistency, and pure stuff. Greg Maddux is the runner up.

I'll gladly debate this with Red Sox fans ad nauseam
Durable?!

bnorris85
01-08-05, 12:05 PM
ahahahhah, i was so confused and read the orriginal post like 4 times, then when i got to pedro's name, i was like WTF yankees fans wouldnt say pedro...then i relized the date

Thrillhouse
01-08-05, 12:27 PM
Kevin Brown. As far as durability, consistency, and pure stuff. Greg Maddux is the runner up.

I'll gladly debate this with Red Sox fans ad nauseam

:barf: although not suprising coming from sum1 with a Giambi avatar.

Best pitcher in the game is Randy Johnson or Roger Clemens. (depending on if Clemens retires or not)

But as far as if I owned a team and could have any pitcher. It would be Mark Prior hands down. Becuase of his skill and his age. Then Johnan Santana.

Thrillhouse
01-08-05, 12:30 PM
Given the amount of times Ive seen Pedros name in this thread I have one question.

Game 7 of the 2005 World Series. Mets at Yanks in the Bronx.

You still want Pedro on the mound?........

Hypothetical question of course.

DiMaggio5CF
01-08-05, 12:39 PM
You put your neck on the block willingly, imo. Dragging up old threads to try and embarrass forumers is lame as hell.

Unless you both agree to do it to see who's right -- like me and the guy who tried to tell me that the Yankees were complete fools for letting Karim Garcia go the first time (the guy disappeared when it came time to dig up the old thread -- damn).

EDIT: Sorry . . . lots of baggage.

DiMaggio5CF
01-08-05, 12:41 PM
Check the original posting date, Thrill.

This guy wanted Kevin Brown almost four years ago.

patrick.o
01-08-05, 02:21 PM
sum1

People who type sum1 instead of someone should take a long hard look in the mirror before criticizing anyone else.