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WiffleWOOD
11-19-04, 09:34 AM
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/strike-zone-dominance-in-context-dazzy-and-pedro/

discuss.

AngelAstro
11-19-04, 11:07 AM
Even being a Yankee fan, this really reminds me to appreciate being able to watch Pedro at his absolute, dominating best in 1999 and 2000.

WiffleWOOD
11-19-04, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by AngelAstro
Even being a Yankee fan, this really reminds me to appreciate being able to watch Pedro at his absolute, dominating best in 1999 and 2000.

i've been thinking about that a lot recently. i really wish i had gotten to see more of those games. what unbelievable dominance.

radke and lieber are both in the top 10 for BB+ of all time.

AngelAstro
11-19-04, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by WiffleWOOD
i've been thinking about that a lot recently. i really wish i had gotten to see more of those games. what unbelievable dominance.

radke and lieber are both in the top 10 for BB+ of all time. Unfortunately, they can also get hit pretty hard because of they throw many strikes without being strikeout pitchers.

WiffleWOOD
11-19-04, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by AngelAstro
Unfortunately, they can also get hit pretty hard because of they throw many strikes without being strikeout pitchers.

that's very true, both have almost the exact same career H/IP (1.07)

JJBNYC
11-19-04, 08:04 PM
They must re-sign Lieber.

ForceFive
11-20-04, 02:18 PM
Great article. Thanks for posting it, Wiffle.

I knew Dazzy Vance was a great pitcher, but I never knew he was that great.

This is an awesome tidbit:

In 1924, Vance had the greatest single-season league-normalized strikeout performance ever. Fanning 262 in 309 innings - in a National League full of contact hitters, in which only one other pitcher struck out more than 86 batters - Vance's K+ for 1924 was 290.

Awesome. And who would have guessed his command was this good, to be on the top of the list... by a lot?


Taking a look at the greatest career KBB+ performers, who else but Clarence Arthur Vance should move to the head of the class:


1. Dazzy Vance 1915-1935 238
2. Christy Mathewson 1900-1916 228
3. Pedro Martinez 1992-2004 227
4. Curt Schilling 1988-2004 223
5. Walter Johnson 1907-1927 221
6. Dizzy Dean 1930-1947 212
7. Lefty Grove 1925-1941 211
8. Deacon Phillippe 1899-1911 209
9. Bret Saberhagen 1984-2001 208
10T. Dennis Eckersley 1975-2001 207
10T. Cy Young 1890-1911 207



Dazzy Vance's dominance came as a great surprise to me. Wow.

Circle Change
11-20-04, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by AngelAstro
Even being a Yankee fan, this really reminds me to appreciate being able to watch Pedro at his absolute, dominating best in 1999 and 2000.

No doubt.


August 24, 1999

BOSTON (7) AT MINNESOTA (1) - FINAL

BOSTON ab r h rbi bb so lob avg
Offerman 2b 4 0 1 0 1 0 1 .291
D Lewis cf 5 1 2 0 0 0 4 .266
Daubach dh 5 0 1 0 0 1 4 .322
N Garciaparra ss 4 1 1 1 1 1 3 .354
Oleary lf 4 1 0 0 1 3 2 .282
Stanley 1b 5 2 2 0 0 0 2 .271
Varitek c 4 1 1 2 1 2 3 .261
Sadler 3b 4 0 2 2 1 1 1 .270
T Nixon rf 3 1 1 1 1 0 4 .267

Totals 38 7 11 6 6 8 24

BATTING: 2B - Stanley (19, Ryan); Varitek (29, Perkins); D Lewis
(13, Perkins). HR - T Nixon (10, 8th inning off Perkins 0 on, 0 out).
RBI - Sadler 2 (2), Varitek 2 (50), N Garciaparra (77), T Nixon (39).
Runners left in scoring position, 2 out - N Garciaparra 1, Daubach 2,
T Nixon 2. GIDP - N Garciaparra. Team LOB - 10.

BASERUNNING: SB - Offerman (14, 2nd base off Ryan/Steinbach).

FIELDING: E - Varitek (10, throw). DP: 2 (Offerman-N Garciaparra-Stanley 2).

MINNESOTA ab r h rbi bb so lob avg
Hocking 2b-ss 4 0 1 1 0 0 1 .270
Gates 3b-2b 4 0 2 0 0 1 0 .263
Lawton rf 4 0 0 0 0 1 2 .255
Steinbach c 4 0 0 0 0 4 1 .306
T Walker dh 3 0 1 0 0 2 0 .285
Allen lf 2 0 0 0 1 2 1 .278
Mientkiewicz 1b 3 0 0 0 0 1 1 .210
J Jones cf 3 1 1 0 0 2 0 .296
C Guzman ss 2 0 0 0 0 2 1 .248
a-Koskie ph-3b 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 .303

Totals 30 1 5 1 1 16 8

a-struck out for C Guzman in the 8th.

BATTING: 2B - J Jones (17, P Martinez). RBI - Hocking (33).
Runners left in scoring position, 2 out - Allen 1, Hocking 1.
GIDP - Mientkiewicz, Lawton. Team LOB - 3.

BASERUNNING: SB - T Walker (14, 2nd base off P Martinez/Varitek).
CS - Hocking (4, 2nd base by P Martinez/Varitek).

FIELDING: E - Mientkiewicz (2, throw). PB - Steinbach 2.
DP: 1 (Hocking-C Guzman-Mientkiewicz).

--------------------------------------------------
Boston - 020 031 010 -- 7
Minnesota - 000 001 000 -- 1

--------------------------------------------------

BOSTON ip h r er bb so hr era
P Martinez (W, 18-4) 8 4 1 0 1 15 0 2.40
Ohka 1 1 0 0 0 1 0 12.15

MINNESOTA ip h r er bb so hr era
Ryan (L, 0-1) 4 1/3 4 4 3 6 4 0 6.23
Perkins 4 2/3 7 3 3 0 4 1 7.09

WP - Perkins. Pitches-strikes: Ryan 93-45; Perkins 70-47;
P Martinez 109-75; Ohka 10-7. Ground balls-fly balls: Ryan 4-5;
Perkins 8-2; P Martinez 4-5; Ohka 2-0. Batters faced: Ryan 24;
Perkins 20; P Martinez 28; Ohka 3.

UMPIRES: HP--Ted Barrett. 1B--Laz Diaz. 2B--Tim Mcclelland.
3B--Gary Cederstrom.
T--2:46. Att--12,332. Indoors.