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Irony Of It All
10-07-04, 04:59 PM
Lately I've seen a lot of posts indicating that Posada has had a down yera and that he really didn't do much since the baserunning incident in May. I just don't get it. Do these people realize that in a down year he was still the Yankees 4th best hitter behind such players as Gary Sheffield, Hideki Matsui , and A-Rod. Factor in Posada playing catcher, and it's not improbable that he could very well have been our best hitter if it weren't for all the wear and tear he goes through during the year.

Maybe people expected a repeat of last year despite the fact that Posada only had 1 previous season that even came close to matching that (2000)? I'm really trying to understand where this is coming from, but I honestly can't even begin to fathom it.

Is it the double plays? This seems to be a large part of it since Posada is hitting DP at an alarming rate. However, the likely AL MVP, Vladimir Guerrero, is hitting them at basically the same rate.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/dp_batters2004.html

Another thing that these people fail to mention is that Posada is still one of the top, if not the top hitting catcher in the game. Just take a look at the 2004 EqA for catchers.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/eqa.html#possort

Was this year as good as last? No, but it was easily the 3rd best of his career, and the amount of hate he's been getting is absolutely appalling.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/posadjo01.shtml

WiffleWOOD
10-07-04, 05:12 PM
I completely agree with you, Irony. Posada's been my favorite player for a long time, so it really boggles my mind to see the type of criticism he gets.

I think the GIDP this year really has had an effect on public perception (or at least perception on this board). I don't get it, I guess, because so many people on this board gave Matsui a free ride for it last year, when he hit into more than Posada did this year.

Additionally, GIDP needs to be seen in context. The Yankees, a team with a high OBP, had a ton more opportunities for double plays than most teams. Posada's GIDP number, though very high, is partially contingent on the fact that there were always runners on first when he came up.

His GIDP total, by the way, is in the same league as Tejada, Hunter, Konerko, Chavez, Bernie, and Jeter; I don't see anyone calling those guys slouches at the plate.

stop the posada hating. the guy is still amonst the elite at his position, and was one of the best hitters the Yanks had this year.

backstop20
10-07-04, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by WiffleWOOD
Additionally, GIDP needs to be seen in context. The Yankees, a team with a high OBP, had a ton more opportunities for double plays than most teams. Posada's GIDP number, though very high, is partially contingent on the fact that there were always runners on first when he came up.

Situation AVG OBP SLG OPS GDP PA PA/GDP
Runner on 1B .247 .323 .438 .761 13 99 7.6
Runners 1B,2B .204 .358 .389 .747 7 67 9.6
Runners 1B,3B .263 .481 .526 1.008 2 27 13.5
Bases Loaded .471 .500 .706 1.206 2 20 10.0

backstop20
10-07-04, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by Irony Of It All
Lately I've seen a lot of posts indicating that Posada has had a down yera and that he really didn't do much since the baserunning incident in May. I just don't get it. Do these people realize that in a down year he was still the Yankees 4th best hitter behind such players as Gary Sheffield, Hideki Matsui , and A-Rod. Factor in Posada playing catcher, and it's not improbable that he could very well have been our best hitter if it weren't for all the wear and tear he goes through during the year.

Maybe people expected a repeat of last year despite the fact that Posada only had 1 previous season that even came close to matching that (2000)? I'm really trying to understand where this is coming from, but I honestly can't even begin to fathom it.

Is it the double plays? This seems to be a large part of it since Posada is hitting DP at an alarming rate. However, the likely AL MVP, Vladimir Guerrero, is hitting them at basically the same rate.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/dp_batters2004.html

Another thing that these people fail to mention is that Posada is still one of the top, if not the top hitting catcher in the game. Just take a look at the 2004 EqA for catchers.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/eqa.html#possort

Was this year as good as last? No, but it was easily the 3rd best of his career, and the amount of hate he's been getting is absolutely appalling.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/posadjo01.shtml
With great power and patience, Posada was one of the most productive hitters in the American League this season. Only a cool June and Torre's unwillingness to let him DH on his off-days held down his final numbers. The unsung star of the Yankees. (http://yesnetwork.com/yankees/news.asp?news_id=598)
By Steven Goldman
October 5, 2004

NicktheStick36
10-08-04, 12:22 PM
I actually think Jason Varitek had a better year with the bat this year (EQA aside).

I also think Posada has had the better career, and this year is only a down year because of his lofty standards.

Irony Of It All
10-09-04, 12:23 AM
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?postid=1636425#post1636425
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?postid=1638330#post1638330
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?postid=1640719#post1640719
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?postid=1640823#post1640823

:rolleyes:

I'd like to say something, but the only things I have to say right now would get me banned. So I'll just leave it at this. :finger1:

NicktheStick36
10-09-04, 07:09 PM
That K won't help matters any.

mrbawm
11-01-04, 08:27 PM
His game calling leaves something to be desired for me.

Dr. Gonzo
11-04-04, 12:51 AM
the reasons not to trade him, just wait for the navaroo-posada tutorship

JJBNYC
11-04-04, 08:30 AM
I've been mulling whether it would be a good idea for the Yankees to carry three catchers next year (Posada, Navarro and emergency), allowing Posada to DH a significant portion of the games.

JavyVazquezIsSick
11-05-04, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by mrbawm
His game calling leaves something to be desired for me.

Ditto. I think he is the best if not the best hitting catcher in baseball. But it seems those pitchers who need someone to call the games for them don't do well under Posada. I am beginning to wonder if Posada contributes to poor pitching from the youngsters as much as Mel....

Irony Of It All
11-05-04, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by JavyVazquezIsSick

I am beginning to wonder if Posada contributes to poor pitching from the youngsters as much as Mel....


Though we would colloquially say that game-calling doesnít exist, itís more accurate to say that if there is a true game-calling ability, it lies below the threshold of detection. There is no statistical evidence for a large game-calling ability, but that doesnít preclude that a small ability. For example, a genuine game-calling ability that reduces a pitcherís ERA by 0.01, resulting in a savings of about 1.6 runs per year for the entire team and could be masked by the statistical variance in the sample size we have to work with. Players would need to play thousands more games than they actually do to have enough data to successfully detect such a skill statistically.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=432#conclusions