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View Full Version : Gammons comments on Garcia and Beltran



SubwayFanatic
06-22-04, 03:57 PM
Peter Gammons was just on ESPN and said that Beltran will be moved within two weeks, likely to the A's or Red Sox. The Sox will not include Williamson into the deal, but would part with Youkilis, Shoppach and a lower-level player. The A's, meanwhile, would likely flip him for a closer, although I don't see many out there.

Gammons says that Garcia may not be moved for a while. Seattle brass believes they are "still in it," even though they are 8.5 games out of first, and I believe 10 games out of the wild card.

rightfielder21
06-22-04, 03:59 PM
Did he even mention the Yankees?

ICEBERG18
06-22-04, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by SubwayFanatic
Peter Gammons was just on ESPN and said that Beltran will be moved within two weeks, likely to the A's or Red Sox. The Sox will not include Williamson into the deal, but would part with Youkilis, Shoppach and a lower-level player. The A's, meanwhile, would likely flip him for a closer, although I don't see many out there.

Gammons says that Garcia may not be moved for a while. Seattle brass believes they are "still in it," even though they are 8.5 games out of first, and I believe 10 games out of the wild card.

he also said the yankees have the best young catcher out of the group.

SubwayFanatic
06-22-04, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by rightfielder21
Did he even mention the Yankees?

Nope. He did not mention the Yankees as suitors in either of these guys, which I found a bit odd.

rightfielder21
06-22-04, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by SubwayFanatic


Nope. He did not mention the Yankees as suitors in either of these guys, which I found a bit odd.

It's a good thing... If Gammons says it, it usually doesn't happen... :lol:

greatyankees
06-22-04, 09:21 PM
The yankees need to get Beltran because He would then add
more speed and a bat to our line-up.
Just like peter gammons said, "the Yankees offense and bulben are carrying the starting pitching". yankees don't need freddie Garcia they better sign Carlos beltran by 2005.

dabomb2045
06-22-04, 09:26 PM
Im kinda torn on this one....

Beltran is one hell of a player....I like him alot.....trading for him does make sense in the same way getting Vazquez did.....cuz he is 27....and just entering his prime....much like Javy is

with that said....I would really hate to give up 2 of our best prospects....to get a guy that we can attempt to sign as a FA in the offseason

BUT....seeing that the Sox are now hot in the pursuit for him....we may have to bite the bullet....and try to trade for him.....NO WAY IN HELL do I wanna see him in Boston....that would be a big-time dagger....cuz you know that the Sox will do whatever it takes to sign him to a long-term deal in the offseason.....who knows...Beltran goes to Boston....gets a taste of the city....and loves it...and decides to stay...and the last thing I wanna see is Beltran manning CF in Fenway for the next 10 years....

so at this point.....I would say....lets try to make the trade for Beltran and get him in pinstripes

yanksrule51
06-22-04, 09:37 PM
I have a question, how does Gammons keep getting to make these "calls" on television when none of them are ever right?

NDBoston
06-22-04, 09:53 PM
Gammons is hilarious.

Tonight's team is the Yankees "sneaking in"

Navarro, Cano and a pitcher for Beltran.

WebsterMulligan
06-22-04, 10:09 PM
I have a few questions about Beltran and Boston, maybe someone can help me out. Will Beltran command a multi-year deal in excess of 100mil? If so, is it likely that the current Boston management would sign Beltran or any player for that amount? I cannot imagine them doing so. Maybe I'm wrong.

WakefieldsCrewSox
06-23-04, 12:13 AM
EDIT: The following is all speculation as to IF the Sox were getting Beltran. Just want to make that clear.

If i understand it correctly, this would absolutely be a rental deal since Boras I believe is intent on hitting the FA market. I am glad to hear they won't part with Williamson, because I think he is a key component to our team. While I am not at all crazy about losing Youk (or Shoppach) that leads me to believe a few things IF this trade happens....
1) To part with Shoppach, management is confident we will be resigning Tek
2) They recognize that we are going to have a logjam as soon as Billy Mueller returns....With Bellhorn, Reese, Mueller and Youk to occupy 2 positions, there has to be an odd man out. While it might have been Bellhorn before, its not gonna be now. He has proven too valuable (as has Pokey, and they obviously have faith in Bill). They trade Youk now while his value is still very high.
3) This will require an outfield shuffle. Most likely, Manny to DH, some configuration of Beltran/Trot/Johnny and Ortiz to 1B with Millar taking a seat. I dont see a problem with this so long as Manny can handle not playing the field for half a season (which I think he can manage).
4) All of a sudden this lineup gets a lot scarier.
Johnny Damon
Carlos Beltran
David Ortiz
Manny Ramirez
Nomar Garciaparra
Trot Nixon
Mark Bellhorn/Bill Mueller
Jason Varitek
Pokey Reese/Mark Bellhorn

This is a big gamble for a half season rental, but Theo & Co. must be thinking they need to make this move while we have the chance this year. Even if some guys walk at the end of the year, I dont think the drop off will be THAT huge next year to the point we can't still strongly compete, but its hard to imagine another Sox team as strong all around as the one which we have now, and would have w/ Beltran. We shall see what happens......

dabomb2045
06-23-04, 12:22 AM
Originally posted by WakefieldsCrewSox
EDIT: The following is all speculation as to IF the Sox were getting Beltran. Just want to make that clear.

If i understand it correctly, this would absolutely be a rental deal since Boras I believe is intent on hitting the FA market. I am glad to hear they won't part with Williamson, because I think he is a key component to our team. While I am not at all crazy about losing Youk (or Shoppach) that leads me to believe a few things IF this trade happens....
1) To part with Shoppach, management is confident we will be resigning Tek
2) They recognize that we are going to have a logjam as soon as Billy Mueller returns....With Bellhorn, Reese, Mueller and Youk to occupy 2 positions, there has to be an odd man out. While it might have been Bellhorn before, its not gonna be now. He has proven too valuable (as has Pokey, and they obviously have faith in Bill). They trade Youk now while his value is still very high.
3) This will require an outfield shuffle. Most likely, Manny to DH, some configuration of Beltran/Trot/Johnny and Ortiz to 1B with Millar taking a seat. I dont see a problem with this so long as Manny can handle not playing the field for half a season (which I think he can manage).
4) All of a sudden this lineup gets a lot scarier.
Johnny Damon
Carlos Beltran
David Ortiz
Manny Ramirez
Nomar Garciaparra
Trot Nixon
Mark Bellhorn/Bill Mueller
Jason Varitek
Pokey Reese/Mark Bellhorn

This is a big gamble for a half season rental, but Theo & Co. must be thinking they need to make this move while we have the chance this year. Even if some guys walk at the end of the year, I dont think the drop off will be THAT huge next year to the point we can't still strongly compete, but its hard to imagine another Sox team as strong all around as the one which we have now, and would have w/ Beltran. We shall see what happens......


I would think....that if the Sox end up trading for Beltran....that they would do whatever it takes to get Beltran signed long-term....I know Boras will have him test the FA waters....but u would think the Sox would throw whatever money they have at him....and get him signed

personally I still think Nomar will leave (just my opinion....prob to LA or Anaheim).....I think Lowe will leave....who knows about Pedro....then u have to decide about Nixon and Varitek

so the $ should be there to get Beltran signed.....and for a guy just entering his prime....I think thats something the Sox would HAVE to do....if they did make the trade for him

of course as a Yanks fan....Im praying this doesnt happen ;)

WakefieldsCrewSox
06-23-04, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by dabomb2045



I would think....that if the Sox end up trading for Beltran....that they would do whatever it takes to get Beltran signed long-term....I know Boras will have him test the FA waters....but u would think the Sox would throw whatever money they have at him....and get him signed

personally I still think Nomar will leave (just my opinion....prob to LA or Anaheim).....I think Lowe will leave....who knows about Pedro....then u have to decide about Nixon and Varitek

so the $ should be there to get Beltran signed.....and for a guy just entering his prime....I think thats something the Sox would HAVE to do....if they did make the trade for him

of course as a Yanks fan....Im praying this doesnt happen ;)

Just FYI, Nixon is already signed....he signed a 4 year extension before this year began (I think it was 4). I dont think there any way they could lock Beltran up before the end of the year given Boras' insistence on free agency, and if they do, they can basically kiss all of their key free agents goodbye. As the days go by, I feel more and more that Tek and Pedro will stay, Lowe and Nomar will go. (and I think you'll see Pokey resigned as well- he loves playing here, and hes been great....he'd be a cheap but extremely effective replacment for Nomar at SS). But you never know, this is all still guessing.

JavyVazquezIsSick
06-23-04, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by WakefieldsCrewSox

he'd be a cheap but extremely effective replacment for Nomar at SS).

That would be a valid statement if offense didn't count in baseball....

RhodeyYankee2638
06-23-04, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by JavyVazquezIsSick


That would be a valid statement if offense didn't count in baseball....

I would disagree with you normally, because I am a proponent of stellar defense. If all the Red Sox were hitting like they did last year, putting Pokey in there instead of Nomar next year wouldn't be bad, cause the rest of the offense would make up for itself. But all the Sox aren't on a role like they were last year, so I would agree with your statement

Pomp
06-23-04, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by WakefieldsCrewSox

1) To part with Shoppach, management is confident we will be resigning Tek

Is Shoppach even that good? I don't know much about him other than he is hitting .245 at AAA.

tdel23
06-23-04, 11:27 AM
so on baseball tonight Gammons says the Yanks are one of the teams but the next day he doesn't mention they are in the hunt...interesting.

Pomp
06-23-04, 11:29 AM
If the Red Sox get Beltran, what about their pitching? Do they feel comfortable banking on Lowe, Wake, and Arroyo?

JavyVazquezIsSick
06-23-04, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by RhodeyYankee2638


I would disagree with you normally, because I am a proponent of stellar defense. If all the Red Sox were hitting like they did last year, putting Pokey in there instead of Nomar next year wouldn't be bad, cause the rest of the offense would make up for itself. But all the Sox aren't on a role like they were last year, so I would agree with your statement

If you take a career .322 hitter and for the last two year he has average more than 25HRS and 100+ RBIs, you take a huge part of your offense out of the line up anyway you look at it. You can't say, if the Red Sox were hitting like they were last year they wouldn't miss Nomar because Nomar again was a huge part of that offense of last years offensive juggernat....

RhodeyYankee2638
06-23-04, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by JavyVazquezIsSick


If you take a career .322 hitter and for the last two year he has average more than 25HRS and 100+ RBIs, you take a huge part of your offense out of the line up anyway you look at it. You can't say, if the Red Sox were hitting like they were last year they wouldn't miss Nomar because Nomar again was a huge part of that offense of last years offensive juggernat....

From what I heard from some Sox fans, they thought Nomar had an off year last year.........

JavyVazquezIsSick
06-23-04, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by RhodeyYankee2638


From what I heard from some Sox fans, they thought Nomar had an off year last year.........

I guess if you look at some of his career numbers but Nomar's numbers are still a huge part of the lineup.

If you take this out of the Red Sox lineup:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=5706


You hurt the team offensively...

Arod for President
06-23-04, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by WakefieldsCrewSox
EDIT: The following is all speculation as to IF the Sox were getting Beltran. Just want to make that clear.

If i understand it correctly, this would absolutely be a rental deal since Boras I believe is intent on hitting the FA market. I am glad to hear they won't part with Williamson, because I think he is a key component to our team. While I am not at all crazy about losing Youk (or Shoppach) that leads me to believe a few things IF this trade happens....
1) To part with Shoppach, management is confident we will be resigning Tek
2) They recognize that we are going to have a logjam as soon as Billy Mueller returns....With Bellhorn, Reese, Mueller and Youk to occupy 2 positions, there has to be an odd man out. While it might have been Bellhorn before, its not gonna be now. He has proven too valuable (as has Pokey, and they obviously have faith in Bill). They trade Youk now while his value is still very high.
3) This will require an outfield shuffle. Most likely, Manny to DH, some configuration of Beltran/Trot/Johnny and Ortiz to 1B with Millar taking a seat. I dont see a problem with this so long as Manny can handle not playing the field for half a season (which I think he can manage).
4) All of a sudden this lineup gets a lot scarier.
Johnny Damon
Carlos Beltran
David Ortiz
Manny Ramirez
Nomar Garciaparra
Trot Nixon
Mark Bellhorn/Bill Mueller
Jason Varitek
Pokey Reese/Mark Bellhorn

This is a big gamble for a half season rental, but Theo & Co. must be thinking they need to make this move while we have the chance this year. Even if some guys walk at the end of the year, I dont think the drop off will be THAT huge next year to the point we can't still strongly compete, but its hard to imagine another Sox team as strong all around as the one which we have now, and would have w/ Beltran. We shall see what happens......


I agree with all of this except one thing... this lineup is no different except you now have beltran...not that much scarier.. Beltran brings a good at bat but can one person really turn it around for a whole team? No. Takes a team effort. Plus there may be some problems with the whole Manny and Trot DH thing.. you dont think they want to play OF. Some players (especially a big child like Manny) may resent only DH'ing

YeboManny
06-23-04, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by Arod for President


Plus there may be some problems with the whole Manny and Trot DH thing.. you dont think they want to play OF. Some players (especially a big child like Manny) may resent only DH'ing

Let me make one thing clear

Manny does not care about anything except for when sponge bob is on. There will be no such problem.

RIyankee
06-23-04, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by tdel23
so on baseball tonight Gammons says the Yanks are one of the teams but the next day he doesn't mention they are in the hunt...interesting.

Gammons has been talking up the Boston prospects while ignoring/downgrading those of the Yankees. On ESPN he's supposed to be a "neutral" analyst! :lol:

RhodeyYankee2638
06-23-04, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by RIyankee


Gammons has been talking up the Boston prospects while ignoring/downgrading those of the Yankees. On ESPN he's supposed to be a "neutral" analyst! :lol:

Neutral???????? Since when.........

;)

WakefieldsKnuckler49
06-23-04, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by Arod for President



I agree with all of this except one thing... this lineup is no different except you now have beltran...not that much scarier.. Beltran brings a good at bat but can one person really turn it around for a whole team? No. Takes a team effort. Plus there may be some problems with the whole Manny and Trot DH thing.. you dont think they want to play OF. Some players (especially a big child like Manny) may resent only DH'ing

Not sure on this but I'm pretty sure Manny has stated that he prefers to DH. This would improve our defense a lot, as Damons arm wouldnt be as much of a problem with the dimensions in LF, plus you get Manny out of there. Having Beltran in there instead of Millar improves the offense ALOT, not to mention he adds alot of speed.

I would do this trade as long as we dont have to give up Williamson, hes evolving into one of the games top setup men.

cubswin
06-23-04, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by RhodeyYankee2638


I would disagree with you normally, because I am a proponent of stellar defense. If all the Red Sox were hitting like they did last year, putting Pokey in there instead of Nomar next year wouldn't be bad, cause the rest of the offense would make up for itself. But all the Sox aren't on a role like they were last year, so I would agree with your statement



Actually, I don't think any Sox player has fallen off except Mueller (who, imo, is the only guy last year who had a "career" yr). Instead, there ahve been injuries to Nomar and Trot. Manny and Damon are actually aving better years, in fact.

stevethesoxfan
06-23-04, 10:42 PM
Beltran to Boston = Nomar leaving Boston

Theo isn't going to give up a lot for a rental. He will go for Beltran if he feels he can sign him for 2005+. The Sox only have so much money. If Beltran is to be signed for $12-15M (?), there's no way that Nomar gets re-signed.

Yes I realize there could be additional $ available if Lowe and/ or Martinez leave, but I'm sure the Sox will replace them with more pitching. And my gut -- whatever that's worth -- tells me Varitek will be re-signed. Thus, Beltran's $ = Nomar's $.

RhodeyYankee2638
06-23-04, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by stevethesoxfan
Beltran to Boston = Nomar leaving Boston

Theo isn't going to give up a lot for a rental. He will go for Beltran if he feels he can sign him for 2005+. The Sox only have so much money. If Beltran is to be signed for $12-15M (?), there's no way that Nomar gets re-signed.

Yes I realize there could be additional $ available if Lowe and/ or Martinez leave, but I'm sure the Sox will replace them with more pitching. And my gut -- whatever that's worth -- tells me Varitek will be re-signed. Thus, Beltran's $ = Nomar's $.


I agree, what do they do for shortstop, I think Renteria is available, but his pricetag might be around 7 mil a year.

stevethesoxfan
06-23-04, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by RhodeyYankee2638



I agree, what do they do for shortstop, I think Renteria is available, but his pricetag might be around 7 mil a year.

I never would have believed this 2 months ago, but if this happened I think they would settle for a Pokey-Bellhorn SS-2B combo in the infield and spend $1M or so on a good fielding/ decent hitting utility infielder to back them up. It would be ok (assuming Bellhorn and Pokey hit in 2005 like they are hitting in 2004) because Nomar's bat is replaced by Beltran's. The outfield is then Nixon/Damon/ Beltran (very good defense), Manny DH, Ortiz 1B, Millar to the bench as a DH/OF/1B fill-in.

All that said, I doubt it will happen . I can't see Theo grabbing Beltran without signing him, and I can't see Boras letting Beltran sign now without seeing what free agency might offer Boras -- er, um -- Beltran.

Did I just imply that Boras might look out for himself first? :lol:

RhodeyYankee2638
06-23-04, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by stevethesoxfan


I never would have believed this 2 months ago, but if this happened I think they would settle for a Pokey-Bellhorn SS-2B combo in the infield and spend $1M or so on a good fielding/ decent hitting utility infielder to back them up. It would be ok (assuming Bellhorn and Pokey hit in 2005 like they are hitting in 2004) because Nomar's bat is replaced by Beltran's. The outfield is then Nixon/Damon/ Beltran (very good defense), Manny DH, Ortiz 1B, Millar to the bench as a DH/OF/1B fill-in.

All that said, I doubt it will happen . I can't see Theo grabbing Beltran without signing him, and I can't see Boras letting Beltran sign now without seeing what free agency might offer Boras -- er, um -- Beltran.

Did I just imply that Boras might look out for himself first? :lol:

NAHHHHH Boras wants wats best for his players clearly ;)