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RSN
06-14-04, 04:39 PM
With Williamson and Garciaparra back, Nixon back on Wednesday, the starting rotation pitching well finally and an obviously better bullpen than a year ago, I think you should be.

Rich
06-14-04, 04:41 PM
Get real. Respect, yes. Scared, :lol:

Qlitch
06-14-04, 04:46 PM
Honestly? lol Not a chance in hell.

RSN
06-14-04, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by Qlitch
Honestly? lol Not a chance in hell.

They seem to have played pretty well against a certain team that is located 206 miles to the south...without Nomar and Nixon...Just saying that all your:lol: could turn into:(

Rich
06-14-04, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by RSN


They seem to have played pretty well against a certain team that is located 206 miles to the south...without Nomar and Nixon...Just saying that all your:lol: could turn into:(

You are missing the point. Respect means that some of us realize the the Red Sox could win the WS, but fear would mean the Yankees don't belong on the same field with them. That's the reason for the :lol:

KP88
06-14-04, 04:58 PM
I'll swallow my pride: until the Sox prove they can beat the Yankees, I don't think they should be at all scared.
Everything (hopefully) beginning to come together is certainly an encouraging sign, though, you're right.

ForceFive
06-14-04, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by RSN


They seem to have played pretty well against a certain team that is located 206 miles to the south...without Nomar and Nixon...Just saying that all your:lol: could turn into:(

Yanks have pushed played almost .800 ball since that last series against Boston. The Yankee team you saw then is vastly different than the team out there right now.

And I'm kind of sick of hearing about Nomar and Nixon... it's almost as if nobody else in the league (including the Yanks) have suffered injuries, slumps or turmoil.

So no, no Yankee fan in their right mind is scared of any team.

SoCal Pinstriper
06-14-04, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by Rich


You are missing the point. Respect means that some of us realize the the Red Sox could win the WS, but fear would mean the Yankees don't belong on the same field with them. That's the reason for the :lol:

What he said.:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

WebsterMulligan
06-14-04, 05:13 PM
The Red Sox have put together a formidable squad this year that does have a realistic chance to win it all. However, I'll take my chances with my Yankees anyday.

whatever123456
06-14-04, 05:20 PM
As a Sox fan, I don't think you should "fear" us. Just like I don't "fear" you. Now that the 2004 RS team as invisioned in the off-season is finally starting to take the field, it is going to be one HECK of a race. Niether team is going to be able to make the slightest mistake for the remainder of the season.

Yankee Bulldawg
06-14-04, 05:39 PM
respect must be earned, until the Red Sux ever win the World Series they will never have my respect.

knickfan23
06-14-04, 05:43 PM
RSN,


Define "scared"?

Should I be buying duct tape, batteries and bottle water in fear of the Sox?

Maybe you just had a bad word choice. Please clarify what you mean by "scared."

Thanks!!


P.S - from the original title of the thread, I thought we were talking about the White Sox.

Rich
06-14-04, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by Yankee Bulldawg
respect must be earned, until the Red Sux ever win the World Series they will never have my respect.

Almost beating the Yankees in Game 7, and being one of the top two or three teams in baseball isn't worthy of respect?

cubswin
06-14-04, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by Yankee Bulldawg
respect must be earned, until the Red Sux ever win the World Series they will never have my respect.


I'm sure they go to bed each night troubled by the notion...

I'm not sure how you can not respect -- for their talents, that is -- anybody who is at the upper echelon of what they do. Have you reached that status? I have not.

Qlitch
06-14-04, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by RSN


They seem to have played pretty well against a certain team that is located 206 miles to the south...without Nomar and Nixon...Just saying that all your:lol: could turn into:( I have a better chance at

Qlitch
06-14-04, 06:07 PM
I more than respect the Red Sox. But FEAR? No way. FEAR is the heart of a loss.

Bern51
06-14-04, 06:16 PM
The Red Sox are certainly worthy of anybody's respect because of the quality of the talent they have, in both offense and pitching. A team doesn't need to win the World Series to be worthy of "respect" becuase just because a team wins the World Series doesn't mean they were the "best team" that year. Sure, they had a great stretch at the end and certainly they were a very good team. However, I don't think the Marlins had the best team last year, and to be fair, the Yankees didn't have the best team in 2000. They just played well when it mattered.

That said, I certainly don't see why the Yankees should "fear" a team that they have the ability to match up to. They are very comparable teams, both with their own strenghts and weaknesses. If both teams play to their capabilities, the race will come down to the wire, and I have confidence in this Yankee team that they can stay ahead. However, I certainly know the Red Sox are a very good team and it could go either way. So, I'm not "scared" of any MLB team, but sure, the Red Sox are the most worthy AL opponent I can think of.

Mo_04
06-14-04, 06:40 PM
I'll be scared if they get us down 3 runs in the 8th inning of a win or go home game for us again lol. Otherwise, i think our team is just flat out a little better. It's good to have some competition and i don't see any other team that will be tougher on us than the red sox. It will be fun :D.

parkerstrong
06-14-04, 08:12 PM
Even with the Red Sox healthy I am not "scared" of them. In fact, I can't wait for the Yankees to play them again because they are a different team now. The Yankees offense has come alive. I respect the Red Sox because they have a quality team. But remember, while the Red Sox were playing .500 ball against the lower tier of the AL, the Yankees dominated the top teams. (4-2 vs. ANA, 5-1 vs. OAK)

Yankees have a 3.5 game lead and have an easier schedule than the Red Sox the rest of the year. I believe the Yankees will win the division, and the Red Sox havent shown me a reason to believe their current team is better than the Yankees current team. However, after saying that injuries will occur and change the playing field (Schilling, Brown, Mussina-if any misses many starts my opinion could change)

stevethesoxfan
06-14-04, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by Yankee Bulldawg
respect must be earned, until the Red Sux ever win the World Series they will never have my respect.

Respect must be earned by posters too.

People who childishly call teams "Red Sux" (or "MFY" for that matter) don't get respect. You're not 12 years old. Write like a mature intelligent adult.

Evil Empire
06-14-04, 09:11 PM
I give them my respect, but thats only because they are a formidable opponent, and play solid baseball. If Red Sox FANS are demanding respect or fear from us, then maybe they should show some to the clearly better team.

YankeePride1967
06-14-04, 09:13 PM
I respect them, I don't fear them and the Sox should feel the same about the Yanks.

25Giambi25
06-14-04, 09:23 PM
The Red Sox have a great team. The Yankees have a great team. It will be a fun season. I have faith in my team and believe that the Yankees will prevail.

Did you really think that the fans on this board would bow down and go :eek: because you told us we should be scared of the Red Sox? Get real!

stevethesoxfan
06-14-04, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by GoRocket
I respect them, I don't fear them and the Sox should feel the same about the Yanks.

Perfectly said.

May the best team win. It will indeed be fun (and nervewracking) to watch.

BruceCampbellKG7
06-14-04, 09:45 PM
It doesn't matter who fears who because Boston's going out in the first round of the playoffs to Anaheim anyway

YankeePride1967
06-14-04, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by stevethesoxfan


Perfectly said.

May the best team win. It will indeed be fun (and nervewracking) to watch.

I honestly think we're in for another 7 game ALCS this year and 9 days of no sleep!

NYYLady41
06-14-04, 10:28 PM
I don't fear the Red Sox at all, simply because our offense is stronger (IMO) and while their starting rotation may look better, their starters are just as likely to become injured as ours.

Both teams match up closely on paper, but it'll come down to simply who's the better team. In my mind, I think the Yankees are certainly the better team, and are already displaying an attitude of courage and desire that has been umatched my any other team in baseball. I'm hopeful to see this continue into the post season.

BobbyMurcerFan
06-14-04, 11:16 PM
Originally posted by Yankee Bulldawg
respect must be earned, until the Red Sux ever win the World Series they will never have my respect. *sigh*:rolleyes:

51BWilliams
06-15-04, 12:10 AM
Fear? No, I can't say that. Loathe? Yes.

I personally think this whole 'rivalry' thing is BS. It's more media hype than it is a reality. It gets people to watch their news shows and read their articles. It's not a rivalry, it's been a kick in the face with a steel tipped jackboot in the back alley of bar.

Why I loathe them is because every time you hear Yankees, someone mentions Boston. Every time you hear Boston, you hear Yankees. On the sports shows, they show the Yankee game results, then the Boston Results, or vice versa.
I want my team to have it's own identity, it's own space, not to have it constantly mentioned in the same breath as another team.

There is also a certain cockiness to Sox fans, which for the life of me I cannot fathom. How can you be cocky when you haven't won anything?
An example of this cockiness is this thread in and of itself. You come to a yankee board saying we should fear you, just because you got back two players that were on the team last year, a team we beat?

How about a bunch of sox fans threatening my 70 year old father in Fenway last august? Real gutsy, them Bostonians. I guess you could add pity to my list of feelings towards them, because if they need to threaten a 70 year old man with physical harm to feel like winners, then that is pretty sad.

My mother is a sox fan. She was at my house on the night of ALCS game 6, dancing around like a monkey with a firecracker in it's butt when Heredia walked the go ahead run home. Started poking me and my father in our faces, 'haha'-ing her silly head off. We're taking a 68 year old woman here too..... But did I call her up when Boone went yard? No. Did she call me up when the Sox won some meaningless games in April? Yep... See what being a red sox fan does to a person? It can turn a mother against her child.

It';s a disease, and you all need treatment :)

JDPNYY
06-15-04, 12:18 AM
I'm scared of myself.

donniesrecordholdsup
06-15-04, 12:43 AM
Originally posted by Bern51
The Red Sox are certainly worthy of anybody's respect because of the quality of the talent they have, in both offense and pitching. A team doesn't need to win the World Series to be worthy of "respect" becuase just because a team wins the World Series doesn't mean they were the "best team" that year. Sure, they had a great stretch at the end and certainly they were a very good team. However, I don't think the Marlins had the best team last year, and to be fair, the Yankees didn't have the best team in 2000. They just played well when it mattered.

That said, I certainly don't see why the Yankees should "fear" a team that they have the ability to match up to. They are very comparable teams, both with their own strenghts and weaknesses. If both teams play to their capabilities, the race will come down to the wire, and I have confidence in this Yankee team that they can stay ahead. However, I certainly know the Red Sox are a very good team and it could go either way. So, I'm not "scared" of any MLB team, but sure, the Red Sox are the most worthy AL opponent I can think of.

yanks were the best team in 2000 .forget about the 87 wins .they sleep walked through the last 3 weeks of the season .

jojos_2
06-15-04, 02:56 AM
Originally posted by JDPNYY
I'm scared of myself.

Who isn't?

;) :lol:

WakefieldsCrewSox
06-15-04, 05:16 AM
Originally posted by 51BWilliams

There is also a certain cockiness to Sox fans, which for the life of me I cannot fathom. How can you be cocky when you haven't won anything?
An example of this cockiness is this thread in and of itself. You come to a yankee board saying we should fear you, just because you got back two players that were on the team last year, a team we beat?

How about a bunch of sox fans threatening my 70 year old father in Fenway last august? Real gutsy, them Bostonians. I guess you could add pity to my list of feelings towards them, because if they need to threaten a 70 year old man with physical harm to feel like winners, then that is pretty sad.

My mother is a sox fan. She was at my house on the night of ALCS game 6, dancing around like a monkey with a firecracker in it's butt when Heredia walked the go ahead run home. Started poking me and my father in our faces, 'haha'-ing her silly head off. We're taking a 68 year old woman here too..... But did I call her up when Boone went yard? No. Did she call me up when the Sox won some meaningless games in April? Yep... See what being a red sox fan does to a person? It can turn a mother against her child.

It';s a disease, and you all need treatment :)

This is the one problem which I occasionally have with the forum. When a Red Sox fan makes a broad generalization about all Yankee fans then they are criticized (I can think of one who was at least temp. banned) for incorrectly painting an entire group of fans with one brush. Now, when a Yankee fan comes out and does the same, I feel like it will likely go unnoticed. I really am sick and tired of reading both Sox and Yankee fans make ridiculous generalizations about the other team's fan base, supposedly backing up their point by citing a few isolated examples.

(I do agree this thread is absolutely ridiculous however)

MaineSoxFan
06-15-04, 06:29 AM
Originally posted by WakefieldsCrewSox


This is the one problem which I occasionally have with the forum. When a Red Sox fan makes a broad generalization about all Yankee fans then they are criticized (I can think of one who was at least temp. banned) for incorrectly painting an entire group of fans with one brush. Now, when a Yankee fan comes out and does the same, I feel like it will likely go unnoticed. I really am sick and tired of reading both Sox and Yankee fans make ridiculous generalizations about the other team's fan base, supposedly backing up their point by citing a few isolated examples.

(I do agree this thread is absolutely ridiculous however)

I agree Wake. Love the discussions on the board and the majority of posters, but a few isolated examples should not leave to broad generalization. The idea that one group of fans is better or classier than another seems false at best.

That being said, I agree with all posters who stated they respected the Sox team, bot did not fear them. Nothing has really changed with Nomar and Trot coming back, no more than things changed when Jeter started hitting or Mussina started pitching like everyone expects.

Woodshed42
06-15-04, 07:18 AM
Lately, I 've had trouble sleeping. You might be on to something.

The Yankees are playing well enough (40-21) that I have little time to keep abreast of the Red Sox DL situation. In fact, I am quite content right now and find these Red Sox injury updates to be incredibly tedious.

NYYLady41
06-15-04, 07:35 AM
Originally posted by WakefieldsCrewSox


This is the one problem which I occasionally have with the forum. When a Red Sox fan makes a broad generalization about all Yankee fans then they are criticized (I can think of one who was at least temp. banned) for incorrectly painting an entire group of fans with one brush. Now, when a Yankee fan comes out and does the same, I feel like it will likely go unnoticed. I really am sick and tired of reading both Sox and Yankee fans make ridiculous generalizations about the other team's fan base, supposedly backing up their point by citing a few isolated examples.

(I do agree this thread is absolutely ridiculous however)

It does likely go unnoticed, becuase this is a Yankees fan site. I have no problem discussing baseball with you, or any Red Sock fan for that matter, but when you created a user name, you must be aware that Yankee fans are often defensive of thier team.

As long as this "rivalry" exists, generalizations will happen. From my experience, and the Red Sox fans I've met, I don't particularly care for them. They are rude, and often harrass me. This doesn't mean all Red Sox fans act that way, but it paints a bit of an impression, sometimes hard to over look.

WakefieldsCrewSox
06-15-04, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by NYYLady41


It does likely go unnoticed, becuase this is a Yankees fan site. I have no problem discussing baseball with you, or any Red Sock fan for that matter, but when you created a user name, you must be aware that Yankee fans are often defensive of thier team.

As long as this "rivalry" exists, generalizations will happen. From my experience, and the Red Sox fans I've met, I don't particularly care for them. They are rude, and often harrass me. This doesn't mean all Red Sox fans act that way, but it paints a bit of an impression, sometimes hard to over look.

I would argue that there is a large difference between being defensive of the Yankees (understandable), criticizing the Sox team (acceptable), and unfairly labeling an entire fanbase (unacceptable). My point was that if the forum states that it enforces a set of community standards blindly, regardless of team affiliation, then it should do so. It should not matter whether its a Sox fan unfairly labeling Yankee fans or vice versa.

kennyl
06-15-04, 08:26 AM
Wake - never haze my threads again. I know this thread is a knee jerk reaction to my Sox fans being fearful of not making the playoffs thread.

WakefieldsCrewSox
06-15-04, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by kennyl
Wake - never haze my threads again. I know this thread is a knee jerk reaction to my Sox fans being fearful of not making the playoffs thread.

I have to be honest with you kenny, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Can you rephrase what you mean for me? (I'm a little slower in the morning)

Bozidar
06-15-04, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by WakefieldsCrewSox
I have to be honest with you kenny, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Can you rephrase what you mean for me? (I'm a little slower in the morning) I'm with you.

BroadwayBomber55
06-15-04, 09:37 AM
I respect the Red Sox and the fans (I have some friends that are Red Sox fans) before and after the game, but during the game, it's business and everyone wants to see their team win very badly.

Alex
06-15-04, 09:52 AM
Resepct, yes. But there are many teams that I respect. Fear, no.

BroadwayBomber55
06-15-04, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by Alex
Resepct, yes. But there are many teams that I respect. Fear, no.

I don't fear any team. The Yankees win together, they go down fightin' together if they lose.

51BWilliams
06-15-04, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by WakefieldsCrewSox


This is the one problem which I occasionally have with the forum. When a Red Sox fan makes a broad generalization about all Yankee fans then they are criticized (I can think of one who was at least temp. banned) for incorrectly painting an entire group of fans with one brush. Now, when a Yankee fan comes out and does the same, I feel like it will likely go unnoticed. I really am sick and tired of reading both Sox and Yankee fans make ridiculous generalizations about the other team's fan base, supposedly backing up their point by citing a few isolated examples.

(I do agree this thread is absolutely ridiculous however)

Im sorry if you feel that I was generalizing you. Aside from the line 'It';s a disease, and you all need treatment', ( The smiley ment it was a joke ) I wasn't trying to group all Sox fans under an umbrella. Every team has it's bad apples.. I was just citing certain examples, not saying that every Sox fan in Fenway was harrasing my father, or that all Yankee fans have annoying Sox fans for mothers. I can see how you would construe it that way tho, and you have my apology. It was late...

But I think you can also see how having a bunch of 20-30 year olds threating an old man would piss me off, especially when that old man is my old man. :)

kennyl
06-15-04, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by WakefieldsCrewSox


I have to be honest with you kenny, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Can you rephrase what you mean for me? (I'm a little slower in the morning)

Kenny really has to lay off the booze.......I thought you posted this thread when in fact you didn't.....and I thought it was in response to my "are sox fans nervous about missing the playoffs thread" ...... whatever, ignore me......I am running on empty mentally.

ring403
06-15-04, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by kennyl
Wake - never haze my threads again. I know this thread is a knee jerk reaction to my Sox fans being fearful of not making the playoffs thread.

I'm going to assume that you are not telling another member where, or what he is allowed to post, because that would be against Community Standards (http://www.nyyfans.com/communityStandards.php).
If you feel that someone has said something that has broken the rules, please report the post to a moderator, and let us make a decision on it. Thanks. :)

kennyl
06-15-04, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by ring403


I'm going to assume that you are not telling another member where, or what he is allowed to post, because that would be against Community Standards (http://www.nyyfans.com/communityStandards.php).
If you feel that someone has said something that has broken the rules, please report the post to a moderator, and let us make a decision on it. Thanks. :)


You have taken my post completely out of context. Nothing but friendly banter.

ring403
06-15-04, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by kennyl



You have taken my post completely out of context. Nothing but friendly banter.

Thanks for clearing that up, because some people, including the person to whom you directed the comments, were not sure what you were trying to say.

kennyl
06-15-04, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by ring403


Thanks for clearing that up, because some people, including the person to whom you directed the comments, were not sure what you were trying to say.

I understand, I really need to get my head screwed on straight......the off day yesterday has me a bit sluggish today.

Bozidar
06-15-04, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by kennyl
I understand, I really need to get my head screwed on straight......the off day yesterday has me a bit sluggish today. It's all good, Kenny. We're all there with you.. it's like going a few days w/o caffine.

Turd Furguson
06-15-04, 12:56 PM
So the Sox wont have Yankee Bulldawg's respect until they finally win a world series. I didnt realize that baseball history began after the year 1918.



Fear is an inappropriate word, I fear no team but there are teams I have healthy respects towards, the Yankees being one of them along with the A's, and the Angels.

RSN
06-15-04, 01:50 PM
I'm glad this thread has caused all this hooting and hollering. When I said "Fear" I should have elaborated. Do you "fear" that the red sox will eliminate the Yankees, end their season, hurt their chances, due to their added hurt players and new acquisitions to start the season?

My point being This RS team is a more dangerous one...Better rotation than last year. Better closer than last year. Better defensively than last year. Similar offensively, now that two of their best hitters are back.

As a sox fan, I "fear" the Yankees and what they can accomplish with the prouct on the field every year. My thought is that Yankee fans assume dominance and that this year may be a little different. I think I've got my answer...Thanks...

cubswin
06-15-04, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by 51BWilliams
[B
I personally think this whole 'rivalry' thing is BS. It's more media hype than it is a reality. It gets people to watch their news shows and read their articles. It's not a rivalry,...

Why I loathe them is because every time you hear Yankees, someone mentions Boston. Every time you hear Boston, you hear Yankees. On the sports shows, they show the Yankee game results, then the Boston Results, or vice versa.
I want my team to have it's own identity, it's own space, not to have it constantly mentioned in the same breath as another team.

There is also a certain cockiness to Sox fans, which for the life of me I cannot fathom. How can you be cocky when you haven't won anything?
An example of this cockiness is this thread in and of itself. You come to a yankee board saying we should fear you, just because you got back two players that were on the team last year, a team we beat?

How about a bunch of sox fans threatening my 70 year old father in Fenway last august? Real gutsy, them Bostonians. I guess you could add pity to my list of feelings towards them, because if they need to threaten a 70 year old man with physical harm to feel like winners, then that is pretty sad...
[/B]


Even if you don't think it's a rivalry, you're wrong. It's not (just) the media: it's the fans and the players, also.

You hear about the Sox and the Yanks b/c it is a rivalry.

While I agree that this thread was a bit silly, the notion of any fans being "cocky" is absurd -- not to say that some Sox are not, but Yanks fans should not be, either. The notion of being cocky b/c you root for a good team is what I cannot fathom -- Sox fans have not won anything; neither have Yankees fans, sorry.

Re. your father, sorry that happened -- it is absolutely uncalled for (unless he pulled a Zim ;) ). But as you later acknowledge, there are as*holes at Yankee Stadium, too.

RSN
06-15-04, 02:33 PM
I grew up in Southern Ct. Most of my best friends are die hard Yankee fans. I used to get harrassed constantly in Y Stadium. My father and I would have to walk out together with people getting in our faces screaming "Boston Sucks". I was seven the first time this hapenned. I know for a fact, because I've seen it, the same happens to Yankee fans in fenway. There are a*holes who go to the games looking for trouble. It's foolish. That's why we vent here and at Redsoxnation.net..We can get the opposing viewpoint in a sensible, intellectual manner. I like this board, I lkie reading posts here, I like posting here. I hate when it degenerates into a "Red Sux" vs. "MFY" mentality, leave it for the bleachers and a six pack...not that there's anything wrong with tanking up and enjoying the game...

Alex
06-15-04, 03:06 PM
I just don't think that Yankee fans have assumed dominance in a few years... 2001 to be exact. Or if they have, they must have been sleeping through the last 3 postseasons. I think I have a healthy fear/respect of the Red Sox, A's, Angels, etc. Any team that has shown they can beat the Yankees.

BombersBlvd
06-15-04, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by RSN
With Williamson and Garciaparra back, Nixon back on Wednesday, the starting rotation pitching well finally and an obviously better bullpen than a year ago, I think you should be.

What is the point of this, seriously? I think the answer you are looking for could be found here: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=red+sox+fan+sites

WashingtonYankee
06-15-04, 04:43 PM
Nope.

Soriambi
06-15-04, 04:58 PM
I honestly don't think this Sox team is THAT much better than last year's version. Schilling makes the rotation stronger, and Foulke makes the pen stronger, but I don't think they're as good offensively (which isn't saying much, since they had such a great year offensively last year, it would have been tough to match), and they're playing very poorly defensively from what I've heard (I saw a stat that they've allowed the 3rd most Unearned runs or something?).

I definately respect them, and they obviously hurt the Yankees chances, as does any good team, but I don't fear them. They're a great team with a lot of talent and some real superstars. I like watching them play on Extra Innings when the Yankees aren't on. I think they're the second or third best team in baseball, and they're definately capable of knocking off the Yanks if a few things go right for them. I still like the Yankees chances, though. :)

Dr. Gonzo
06-15-04, 05:03 PM
not really, usually we don't catch the sox till July we are ahead of schedule this year. And don't act like noamr and trot have held you back, they have but we have equally restrictive things happen to us. So, keep on telling yourself that nomar and trot will lead a surge., But face it the sox ain't that good, all of our banter is true. The lineup isn't that good, they were career years last year, and the staff is alright. YOu must be thank God for schillign because without him, you are screwed.

cubswin
06-15-04, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by Soriambi
[B]I honestly don't think this Sox team is THAT much better than last year's version. Schilling makes the rotation stronger, and Foulke makes the pen stronger, but I don't think they're as good offensively ... and they're playing very poorly defensively .../B]


Why should they be worse than last year offensively or defensively? While they are not performing as well (actually, I'm not sure about the defense), that, to me, is an indication that they are underperforming -- for which there are several potential reasons.

nahzo
06-15-04, 05:55 PM
No, I am not scared of the Sox. I am however dying for the series to start at the end of June. I said a while back ago, that it will be a pivot point for both teams. I can't wait for it... :)

MaineSoxFan
06-15-04, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by nahzo
No, I am not scared of the Sox. I am however dying for the series to start at the end of June. I said a while back ago, that it will be a pivot point for both teams. I can't wait for it... :)

I agree with that.

YankeePride1967
06-15-04, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by RSN
I'm glad this thread has caused all this hooting and hollering. When I said "Fear" I should have elaborated. Do you "fear" that the red sox will eliminate the Yankees, end their season, hurt their chances, due to their added hurt players and new acquisitions to start the season?

My point being This RS team is a more dangerous one...Better rotation than last year. Better closer than last year. Better defensively than last year. Similar offensively, now that two of their best hitters are back.

As a sox fan, I "fear" the Yankees and what they can accomplish with the prouct on the field every year. My thought is that Yankee fans assume dominance and that this year may be a little different. I think I've got my answer...Thanks...

I agree on those points, but in addition, the Yankees offense and bullpen is a lot better than 2003 as well. The question is our pitching depth and until September, that is when it will be better known. If Mussina/Brown and Vazquez are all healthy and someone steps up as a number four, we too are better than in 2003. Also in 2003 we had major injuries all year, more than the Sox have had this year.

MaineSoxFan
06-15-04, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by GoRocket


Also in 2003 we had major injuries all year, more than the Sox have had this year.

I don't remember all the injuries the Yanks had last year (it seems like a blur to me), I know that Jeter missed a month or so, Mo was on the Dl for awhile right? Was Bernie on it too? Who else was injured? (Just curious).

djhitman01
06-15-04, 07:36 PM
Yes I fear the sox, but not as much as i feared the 00-01 Oakland Athletics.

Jersey Yankee
06-15-04, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by ForceFive
Yanks have pushed played almost .800 ball since that last series against Boston. The Yankee team you saw then is vastly different than the team out there right now.

And I'm kind of sick of hearing about Nomar and Nixon... it's almost as if nobody else in the league (including the Yanks) have suffered injuries, slumps or turmoil.

So no, no Yankee fan in their right mind is scared of any team. 10-2 on the homestand. Can Boston say that?

I'm also getting tired of hearing about Nomar and Trout. We haven't seen Karsay pitch in ages, and Contreras hasn't shown diddly. Moose and Karsay are also doing so-so, as is Mo.

When Boston is 3.5 behind us after having played every sub-.500 team out there, and we've dealt w/Texas, Anaheim, Oakland, I think it should be them who's scared.

For the beginning of the season, the Yanks were likely suffering jetlag from the 18-hr trip. Me thinks it's Boston that has something to prove, not the Yanks.

Jersey Yankee
06-15-04, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by MaineSoxFan
I don't remember all the injuries the Yanks had last year (it seems like a blur to me), I know that Jeter missed a month or so, Mo was on the Dl for awhile right? Was Bernie on it too? Who else was injured? (Just curious). Jeter had a separated shoulder, and I think it was about 6 weeks he was out.

Mo was there about twice, and he was day-to-day w/o actually being on the DL a few times.

Bernie also. Remember our setup guy, Steve Karsay? Hasn't played a game since late '02.

MaineSoxFan
06-15-04, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
10-2 on the homestand. Can Boston say that?



No, the Sox homestand was only 6 games, so the Sox definitely can't say that.

Jersey Yankee
06-15-04, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by RSN
I'm glad this thread has caused all this hooting and hollering. When I said "Fear" I should have elaborated. Do you "fear" that the red sox will eliminate the Yankees, end their season, hurt their chances, due to their added hurt players and new acquisitions to start the season?

My point being This RS team is a more dangerous one...Better rotation than last year. Better closer than last year. Better defensively than last year. Similar offensively, now that two of their best hitters are back.

As a sox fan, I "fear" the Yankees and what they can accomplish with the prouct on the field every year. My thought is that Yankee fans assume dominance and that this year may be a little different. I think I've got my answer...Thanks... Not once in the history of baseball have the Boston Red Sox ever defeated the New York Yankees in a game which allowed them to go into or further into the playoffs. Not once. Therefore, I couldn't possibly fear that they'll be "eliminated" by the Bosox.

Better rotation? Schilling, I'll give you, but unless Pedro continues earning his $17.5M salary, as he's done recently, I'd say no. IMO, you have one ace in Curt and one sometimes ace in Pedro. I've seen him fluctuate from dominant to very hittable, getting NDs or losses.

Better closer? I'll give you that one. Nowhere near the October experience as Mo, and I seem to recall Foulke blowing an elimination game by letting Manny go batty. That same team, Mo proves his October worth f/3 shutout innings.

Defensively? In RF, I think Trout's your best guy, and I'll have to see where he's at when he returns. For Pokey, that's an improvement, but Manny's glove has never been too hot. Pokey and McCarthy at 1B are about your only improvements defensively.

As to "assuming", you know the story on that one. I don't *PREsume* anything. All I know is that Boston will have to beat top teams, rather than letting Vlad go wild on an ineffective Pedro. Until I see them consistently beat the more powerful and consistent Yanks, then Oakland and Anaheim, I won't concede anything. What do they say in Missouri? Show me!!!

Jersey Yankee
06-15-04, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by MaineSoxFan
No, the Sox homestand was only 6 games, so the Sox definitely can't say that. Let's see: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/standings

Last 10: Yanks, 8-2; BoSox, 6-4. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Homestand: Boston (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/schedule?team=bos): 4-2 (66.7%); Yanks (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/schedule?team=nyy): 10-2 (80%)

The Sox would have to have gone 5-1 instead of 4-2 to have kept pace with the Yanks, re Win%.

MaineSoxFan
06-15-04, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
Let's see: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/standings

Last 10: Yanks, 8-2; BoSox, 6-4. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Homestand: Boston (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/schedule?team=bos): 4-2 (66.7%); Yanks (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/schedule?team=nyy): 10-2 (80%)

The Sox would have to have gone 5-1 instead of 4-2 to have kept pace with the Yanks, re Win%.

What's your point? You asked if Boston could say that they went 10-2 on their last homestand, and I said no.

cubswin
06-15-04, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
...I'm also getting tired of hearing about Nomar and Trout.

For the beginning of the season, the Yanks were likely suffering jetlag from the 18-hr trip. ...


So, Nomar and Trot being out is inconsequential, and the Yanks lost 6 of 7 to the Sox b/c of jet lag from a trip 3 weeks prior.

Got it.

Soriambi
06-15-04, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by cubswin



Why should they be worse than last year offensively or defensively? While they are not performing as well (actually, I'm not sure about the defense), that, to me, is an indication that they are underperforming -- for which there are several potential reasons.

In theory, they shouldn't be, but there were a lot of guys last year who had career years who aren't going to duplicate them this year, most likely, like Bill Mueller. Also, they had a fantastic year last year, which would be difficult to duplicate no matter who's playing for you.

cubswin
06-15-04, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by Soriambi


In theory, they shouldn't be, but there were a lot of guys last year who had career years who aren't going to duplicate them this year, most likely, like Bill Mueller. Also, they had a fantastic year last year, which would be difficult to duplicate no matter who's playing for you.


Not sure anybody has dropped off so far this year, despite supposed career yrs last year.

RedGlare
06-15-04, 11:52 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/standings?type=wild+card
:smokin:

Qlitch
06-16-04, 12:05 AM
ENOUGH OF THIS. EVERYONE KNOWS THE SOX WILL MAKE THE PLAYOFFS

WakefieldsCrewSox
06-16-04, 12:07 AM
Originally posted by Qlitch
ENOUGH OF THIS. EVERYONE KNOWS THE SOX WILL MAKE THE PLAYOFFS

:lol: I'm with you man.

Bluesexy's daddy
06-16-04, 12:29 AM
Scared? Of what? It's baseball, not nuclear safety, or national defense.

Do I watch the Sox game results and standings? Yes, but nothing about baseball scares me. If I had to spend the season being scared of something I would find a new hobby.

Qlitch
06-16-04, 01:23 AM
Originally posted by WakefieldsCrewSox


:lol: I'm with you man. I mean seriously. Unless somehow Schilling goes down or Foulke implodes, this team will be there in October. Thinking they won't is just stupid.

Yosef
06-16-04, 01:39 AM
Originally posted by Qlitch
I mean seriously. Unless somehow Schilling goes down or Foulke implodes, this team will be there in October. Thinking they won't is just stupid.

I agree. Anaheim won't win enough games, IMO.

parkerstrong
06-16-04, 05:46 AM
I agree Boston will make the playoffs. But as the wild card.

YankeePride1967
06-16-04, 08:55 AM
Originally posted by MaineSoxFan


I don't remember all the injuries the Yanks had last year (it seems like a blur to me), I know that Jeter missed a month or so, Mo was on the Dl for awhile right? Was Bernie on it too? Who else was injured? (Just curious).

Rivera -- all of April
Jeter -- all of April, 1/2 of May and a week or so in early Sept.
Karsay -- all year (they counted on him unlike this year)
Giambi - staph infection in both eyes and a bum knee all year
Bernie -- surgery -- 6 weeks out
Nick Johnson -- hand fractured -- 6 weeks

YankeePride1967
06-16-04, 08:56 AM
Originally posted by Qlitch
ENOUGH OF THIS. EVERYONE KNOWS THE SOX WILL MAKE THE PLAYOFFS

Did anyone say otherwise?

kennyl
06-16-04, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by WakefieldsCrewSox


:lol: I'm with you man.


Wake, I respect you....i like your humor......but laughing about this is not wise.......I am not so optimistic about the Sox this year, the gap is widening and the West is wild. Godspeed

RSN
06-16-04, 09:51 AM
To run down the sox injuries this year

Mendoza - out so far all year
Nixon - Plays first game tonight
Garciaparra - Missed 57 games
Mueller - Out 6-9 weeks
Burks - played a few games in april then Knee surgery out at least another 3 weeks
#1 Set up guy on team - Williamson - DL'd for 15 days mid may til last week
5th starter - Kim - Out since Mid may return???


04
I think those players are slightly more devastating than Karsay(when was the last time he pitched anyway), Brown (basically day to day), Mussina (same), Rivera(missed 1 game). Jeter (was day to day for a few days) Giambi (missed 2 weeks?)

03
Rivera -- all of April
Jeter -- all of April, 1/2 of May and a week or so in early Sept.
Karsay -- all year (they counted on him unlike this year)
Giambi - staph infection in both eyes and a bum knee all year
Bernie -- surgery -- 6 weeks out
Nick Johnson -- hand fractured -- 6 weeks
Still not as bad as the sox woes this year IMO.

RIyankee
06-16-04, 09:55 AM
The Sox have given the Yankees trouble over the last two years. This team has two very good pitchers and when healthy has a great hitting lineup. Such a team as this could not only win their division but become extremely dangerous in a playoff series.

So to answer the question of this thread...

My answer is "YES" I'm worried about the Sox...

The Chicago White Sox. I was so glad they gagged the AL Central race to the Twins. They would have given the Yankees far more trouble in the 2003 ALDS.

Woodshed42
06-16-04, 10:06 AM
Looking at run differential, the White Sox are playing the best baseball in the majors. Nothing to be afraid of, but a team to keep an eye on espcially if they get Freddy Garcia and some bullpen help.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/standings

Edit: Post run differential link

Alex
06-16-04, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by RSN

04
I think those players are slightly more devastating than Karsay(when was the last time he pitched anyway), Brown (basically day to day), Mussina (same), Rivera(missed 1 game). Jeter (was day to day for a few days) Giambi (missed 2 weeks?)


How about Bernie with his apendix, etc. Also, if we can't count Karsay, then why should the Red Sox count Mendoza? In fact, alot of Red Sox fans were hoping there was an excuse to DL him because he had been ineffective for the Red Sox since he got there.

Bosox Guy in Chitown
06-16-04, 10:27 AM
These threads are like freeway car accidents.

You see them coming up. You know you shouldn't look at it, but you slow down and do anyway.

Then after you've looked at it you move away ashamed and feeling slightly more stupid for having done so.

kennyl
06-16-04, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by Bosox Guy in Chitown
These threads are like freeway car accidents.

You see them coming up. You know you shouldn't look at it, but you slow down and do anyway.

Then after you've looked at it you move away ashamed and feeling slightly more stupid for having done so.

So by actually posting does that make you the guy who gets out of his car to see if everyone is ok, but doesn't really care and is really just hoping to get a glimpse of some gory stuff?

Bosox Guy in Chitown
06-16-04, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by kennyl


So by actually posting does that make you the guy who gets out of his car to see if everyone is ok, but doesn't really care and is really just hoping to get a glimpse of some gory stuff?

Nope... just adding some levity.. or at least hoping to.

Alex
06-16-04, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by kennyl


So by actually posting does that make you the guy who gets out of his car to see if everyone is ok, but doesn't really care and is really just hoping to get a glimpse of some gory stuff?

I just want a glimpse of the gory stuff.... :lol: :P :D :bad:

ForceFive
06-16-04, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by RSN

I think those players are slightly more devastating than Karsay(when was the last time he pitched anyway), Brown (basically day to day), Mussina (same), Rivera(missed 1 game). Jeter (was day to day for a few days) Giambi (missed 2 weeks?)


Boston's record is .500 since Nomah came back. That's what we've been waiting for? I thought he was supposed to IMPROVE the club - THIS is what all the excuse-making has been about?

;)

Seriously though, injuries are part of the game that EVERY team (yes, EVERY team, not just Boston) must deal with every season.

And yes, you'll probably have more of them too.

So don't expect us Yankee fans to be scared of anything, considering the number of injuries and totally massive, uncharacteristic slumps the Yanks have had this season. If SOME Boston fans can whine about missing Nomar and Nixon and blah blah blah, Yanks fans might as well say they were "without" Jeter and Williams the first month and a half of the season (well, Williams did miss time due to appendix surgery and you can be sure it took several weeks for strength to build back up too), because they weren't "the real" Jeter and Williams (at least they were playing like somebody else, who doesn't have the impact on a lineup like they normally do). They also were without one of their starters for the first month+ (Lieber), and one of the main bullpen guys (Quantrill) seems to be pitching with a knee injury. Among other injuries (Giambi, Lofton, etc.).

See? Yanks fans can make excuses too.

How about we all just deal with what the team can put out onto the field on any given day and hope that quality depth (another important characteristic for any team) shines through.

YankeePride1967
06-16-04, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by RSN
To run down the sox injuries this year

Mendoza - out so far all year
Nixon - Plays first game tonight
Garciaparra - Missed 57 games
Mueller - Out 6-9 weeks
Burks - played a few games in april then Knee surgery out at least another 3 weeks
#1 Set up guy on team - Williamson - DL'd for 15 days mid may til last week
5th starter - Kim - Out since Mid may return???


04
I think those players are slightly more devastating than Karsay(when was the last time he pitched anyway), Brown (basically day to day), Mussina (same), Rivera(missed 1 game). Jeter (was day to day for a few days) Giambi (missed 2 weeks?)

03
Rivera -- all of April
Jeter -- all of April, 1/2 of May and a week or so in early Sept.
Karsay -- all year (they counted on him unlike this year)
Giambi - staph infection in both eyes and a bum knee all year
Bernie -- surgery -- 6 weeks out
Nick Johnson -- hand fractured -- 6 weeks
Still not as bad as the sox woes this year IMO.

I wasn't talking about our 04 injuries which is not as much as Boston, but I'd take your 2004 over our 2003. I never thought much of Kim or Mendoza since he left the Yanks. You guys never really had Burks either. Garciappara and Nixon, yes big losses. Youkolis may actually be better than Mueller.

RSN
06-16-04, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by ForceFive


Boston's record is .500 since Nomah came back. That's what we've been waiting for? I thought he was supposed to IMPROVE the club - THIS is what all the excuse-making has been about?



I know you aren't serious...2 and 2....That's a bit small of a sample size wouldn't you say? Get real.

RSN
06-16-04, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by GoRocket


I wasn't talking about our 04 injuries which is not as much as Boston, but I'd take your 2004 over our 2003. I never thought much of Kim or Mendoza since he left the Yanks. You guys never really had Burks either. Garciappara and Nixon, yes big losses. Youkolis may actually be better than Mueller.

Mueller was the batting champ last year.

Kim is "filthy" when healthy. The knock on him is that he works too hard. He tired his arm out over throwing and lifting. He would be a #3 on most teams.

I'm not sure what you mean by "never really had Burks". He's a valued RH power hitter who would add a great clubhouse presence.

Mendoza has been a mystery since coming over...Let's face it, we're paying the guy a fortune to be "hurt". Thanks for him by the way, we really appreciate it!

cubswin
06-16-04, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by GoRocket


I wasn't talking about our 04 injuries which is not as much as Boston, but I'd take your 2004 over our 2003. I never thought much of Kim or Mendoza since he left the Yanks. You guys never really had Burks either. Garciappara and Nixon, yes big losses. Youkolis may actually be better than Mueller.



Regardless of what you thought of him, Kim is a proven major league pitcher who was valuable last year and was expected to be the #5 starter. Arroyo has been a decent fill-in, but Kim would have been option #1 there. Bottom line is that hurts the team.

They did have Burks. If healthy, he is playing a bunch of games to help make up for Nixon's absence. As an earlier poster said, "quality depth."

Youk may be better than Mueller, he many not. But if Mueller had not been hurt, Youk could have (obviously this is not clear) been up at some point by now, with all the injuries -- again, the depth issue.

ForceFive
06-16-04, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by RSN


I know you aren't serious...2 and 2....That's a bit small of a sample size wouldn't you say? Get real.

Did you bother to read the rest of the post, or just gloss over the first sentence?

WakefieldsCrewSox
06-16-04, 12:29 PM
Can we close this now? No Yankee fan in their right mind "fears" the Sox, and rightfully so.

ForceFive
06-16-04, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by WakefieldsCrewSox
Can we close this now? No Yankee fan in their right mind "fears" the Sox, and rightfully so.

A voice of reason.

Arod for President
06-16-04, 01:30 PM
I just sat here and read all the posts on this thread.. what a waste of my time :)

Nomar and Trot to me only seem to be "name upgrades" Pokey, Belhorn, and Kaplar seem to have been holding up just fine for the Sox.

Even if the Sox had Nomar and Trot from the beginning of the season, do you really think that would have them blowing out the Yankees in the AL East? of course not. It may have won them 2-3 more games thats it. When it comes down to it I can honestly say its all about pitching. Schilling has been tremendous, Paydro has been hot/cold but its the Arroyo's and the Lowe's the sox have to worry about. Same with the Yanks... the Contreras situation is NO GOOD. I feel whoevers team's pitching can stay stronger down the stretch will come out on top of the AL East.

Go Yankees.

Jersey Yankee
06-16-04, 02:23 PM
Can any Red Sox fan give us a logical reason why we should fear a team that's 4.5 games out? How long after Nomar and Trot come back, do they finally turn it around?

Weak schedule, but they're still playing 2nd fiddle. What's to be scared of?

YankeePride1967
06-16-04, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by RSN


Mueller was the batting champ last year.

Kim is "filthy" when healthy. The knock on him is that he works too hard. He tired his arm out over throwing and lifting. He would be a #3 on most teams.

I'm not sure what you mean by "never really had Burks". He's a valued RH power hitter who would add a great clubhouse presence.

Mendoza has been a mystery since coming over...Let's face it, we're paying the guy a fortune to be "hurt". Thanks for him by the way, we really appreciate it!

Burks was on the team for what, 2 weeks before he got hurt? Kim is the most overrated "prospect" I've seen. He has been in the league 5 years now and has yet to even come close to living up to his hype. Kim has had five years to be a number three starter, he ain't that good. Sox fans seem to hype him up like the Mets did with Wilson/Pulsipher and Izzy in the 90's.

YankeePride1967
06-16-04, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by cubswin




Regardless of what you thought of him, Kim is a proven major league pitcher who was valuable last year and was expected to be the #5 starter. Arroyo has been a decent fill-in, but Kim would have been option #1 there. Bottom line is that hurts the team.

They did have Burks. If healthy, he is playing a bunch of games to help make up for Nixon's absence. As an earlier poster said, "quality depth."

Youk may be better than Mueller, he many not. But if Mueller had not been hurt, Youk could have (obviously this is not clear) been up at some point by now, with all the injuries -- again, the depth issue.

Proven? When? I must have missed it. He was a decent closer a few years but has never proven anything as a starter. Sox are with Kim like some Yankee fans with Contreras. Let them actually do well before we overpraise them.

See my last post about Burks and Mueller was the batting champ last year, by far and away his best year, he is a solid player at best .

cubswin
06-16-04, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by GoRocket


Proven? When? I must have missed it. He was a decent closer a few years but has never proven anything as a starter. Sox are with Kim like some Yankee fans with Contreras. Let them actually do well before we overpraise them.

See my last post about Burks and Mueller was the batting champ last year, by far and away his best year, he is a solid player at best .



Umm, I didn't say he was a proven starter; I said he was a proven major league pitcher who was valuable last year.

Re. Burks: who cares how long he was on the team?

Re. Mueller, I never said anything except that Youk may or may not prove better, but regardless, not having him hurts their depth.

cubswin
06-16-04, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by Arod for President
[B]
...Nomar and Trot to me only seem to be "name upgrades" Pokey, Belhorn, and Kaplar seem to have been holding up just fine for the Sox.

Even if the Sox had Nomar and Trot from the beginning of the season, do you really think that would have them blowing out the Yankees in the AL East? of course not. It may have won them 2-3 more games thats it. When it comes down to it I can honestly say its all about pitching. ...B]


Name upgrades?

Kapler: 1 HR, 8RBI, .613 OPS; Bellhorn/Reese (avg): 5, 30, 750
Nixon avg / 54 games: 8, 30, 860; Nomar: 9, 35, 875-925 (lower # last 3 yrs, higher # career)

w/them, blowing out the Yanks? No. At least 2-3 games, mnaybe more - I have no idea. But there's a significant difference b/t 1 out and 4-5 out, IMO.

agreed, though, that pitching is the most important thing

pauliewalnuts2001
06-16-04, 11:37 PM
I have about a dozen friends who are native Bostonians and die-hard Red Sox fans (not that there are any other kinds).

Every year they say the same thing - "This is the year". Sometimes the Red Sox get off to a great April and lead the division by 5 games or more and these guys get so cocky, saying things like "Nothing will stop this team now".

But this year was different. These friends have been cocky and arrogant since February. All the kept saying was "Schilling, Pedro, Lowe, and Wakes - Yankees lose Clemens and Pettitte. Yankees are so done." And then the Red Sox jumped out to a nice division lead in April and these friends were letting forth the classics - "This is a magical season. These guys are playing like World Champions. The only thing that can stop this team now is themselves. Yankees are vulnerable. Sox will run away with this division by the All-Star break."

And here we are on June 17th. Yankees have the best record in baseball and are minutes away from jumping out to a 6 games lead in the loss column over the Red Sox (who have the 4th best record in the majors). Since sweeping the Yankees on April 25, the Red Sox are 24 and 21. In that time, the Yankees are 34 and 10. And I havent heard from those friends of mine in quite some time. I think I'll give them a call tomorrow.

cubswin
06-16-04, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by pauliewalnuts2001
...Since sweeping the Yankees on April 25, the Red Sox are 24 and 21. In that time, the Yankees are 34 and 10. ..



sounds to me like the Sox need another series against a pushover, like the Yanks, to get back in a groove ;)

SINCE77 2
06-16-04, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by cubswin




sounds to me like the Sox need another series against a pushover, like the Yanks, to get back in a groove ;)

Be careful what you wish for. A lot of Sox fans are really looking forward to meeting the Yankees again in order to get right back into things. I wonder if they ever took into account that they might lose 5-6 and find themselves in the double digits in GB. Just a thought.

WakefieldsCrewSox
06-16-04, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by SINCE77 2


Be careful what you wish for. A lot of Sox fans are really looking forward to meeting the Yankees again in order to get right back into things. I wonder if they ever took into account that they might lose 5-6 and find themselves in the double digits in GB. Just a thought.

Anything is possible. But I highly doubt it. It will be interesting to see what the pitching matchups are....will Brown be back by then?

SINCE77 2
06-16-04, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by WakefieldsCrewSox


Anything is possible. But I highly doubt it. It will be interesting to see what the pitching matchups are....will Brown be back by then?

Brown will be back in 9 days. Yankees may also have secured another SP or "effective" lefty bullpen arm by then. I'll be at the June 30th game so it better be a win.

WebsterMulligan
06-17-04, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by SINCE77 2


Be careful what you wish for. A lot of Sox fans are really looking forward to meeting the Yankees again in order to get right back into things. I wonder if they ever took into account that they might lose 5-6 and find themselves in the double digits in GB. Just a thought.
:D

Jersey Yankee
06-17-04, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by cubswin
Umm, I didn't say he was a proven starter; I said he was a proven major league pitcher who was valuable last year.What has Kim ever proven to be? Proven what? If not as a starter, then as a closer? Setup? Why'd they upgrade to Foulke if Kim is so "proven"?

In a few minutes, it'll be 5.5 up, so I'm still not sure what there really is to be scared of.

Jersey Yankee
06-17-04, 01:21 AM
Rockies hold off Red Sox's late charge to beat Schilling (http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/gamecenter/recap/MLB_20040616_BOS@COL)

Resilient Jennings tops Schilling (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=240616127)

Yeah, plenty scared. The team the Yanks just swept, Boston has lost the first two games to, including w/your ace on the mound.

When you're 10 games out, should I get scared then?

cubswin
06-17-04, 01:35 AM
Originally posted by SINCE77 2


Be careful what you wish for. A lot of Sox fans are really looking forward to meeting the Yankees again in order to get right back into things. I wonder if they ever took into account that they might lose 5-6 and find themselves in the double digits in GB. Just a thought.


it was a joke

cubswin
06-17-04, 01:39 AM
Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
What has Kim ever proven to be? Proven what? If not as a starter, then as a closer? Setup? Why'd they upgrade to Foulke if Kim is so "proven"?

In a few minutes, it'll be 5.5 up, so I'm still not sure what there really is to be scared of.



He has proven that he is a major league pitcher. 400+ IP, 3.33 ERA, 86 saves. The Sox with Kim as an option for their #5 starter are better than the Sox w/o Kim as an option for their #5 starter. I can't believe you really are going to dispute that very basic, and very clear, point. (Also, he was not considered their closer, or even a reliever, when they got Foulke. He was intended to be the #5 starter. even if they had not got Foulke, Williamson would have been the closer.)

And I never said that you should be scared of anything. Especially since you're a fan, not a player, and it's a game.

Bub
06-17-04, 06:22 AM
Most of us expected the Yanks to open the lead up a bit in June due to the ease of schedule compared to Boston's. I don't think anybody expected to be up 6 in the loss column by the 17th though. The Sox only chance to catch up is to continue to win the head to head games. If they hadn't won 6 of 7 head-to-head there wouldn't be a race to speak of now.

RedGlare
06-17-04, 08:19 AM
After being crushed in April I thought by now we'd be making up ground or almost tied.

The reason I am not afraid of the Sox is not because the Sox are playing all that bad... it is that the Yankees have transformed into a winning machine. That have ripped apart, and come from behind some pretty good teams to gain a good lead in the East.

I very much look foward to meeting the Sox again.

YankeePride1967
06-17-04, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by cubswin




Umm, I didn't say he was a proven starter; I said he was a proven major league pitcher who was valuable last year.

Re. Burks: who cares how long he was on the team?

Re. Mueller, I never said anything except that Youk may or may not prove better, but regardless, not having him hurts their depth.

well in that case every starter on every major league team is a proven starter so that really isn't saying much.

If you never really had Burks then how can you be missing him?

Jersey Yankee
06-17-04, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by cubswin
He has proven that he is a major league pitcher. 400+ IP, 3.33 ERA, 86 saves. The Sox with Kim as an option for their #5 starter are better than the Sox w/o Kim as an option for their #5 starter. I can't believe you really are going to dispute that very basic, and very clear, point. (Also, he was not considered their closer, or even a reliever, when they got Foulke. He was intended to be the #5 starter. even if they had not got Foulke, Williamson would have been the closer.)

And I never said that you should be scared of anything. Especially since you're a fan, not a player, and it's a game. I have a problem with the term "proven" concerning BH Kim. Brenly didn't trust him in 2001, since he'd made the unprecedent (AFAIK) move to have the Game 6 winner close Game 7. Last season, he'd started 12 of 56 games he'd played in (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=6237&context=pitching), but I don't know his '03 record as an SP was. The only thing he's ever "proven" to be is 1-1, 6.17 ERA in '04 over 3 games. I consider this very little as far as being an SP if the term "proven" is used. Considering he's supposed to be a starter, the "saves" wouldn't count much, just like Lowe's shaky "saves" in '01 wouldn't account f/much now either.

You're saying that an opponent, not an ex-Yankee, who gets the Standing O when he comes out of the pen, is "proven"? Someone whom Boston fans I know of know that he shouldn't be anywhere near the Yankees? That's what you call "proven"? As in "proven his ability to lose games"?

As to your not having said I should be scared of anything, might I inform you that the purpose of this thread was to be responded to by Yankee *FANS*, not Yankee *PLAYERS*? And that the forum's URL is nyyFANS.com? Therefore, as a fan, which I am, I'm allowed to reply, so I don't get your point's relevance. As Jim and Deb have said (if I remember correctly), they don't encourage Yankee players to stop by, so I don't understand your point.

BTW, I'm well aware it's a game. I think that should be obvious, just as when I'd made obvious points, you'd pointed that out in the past.

jpao89
06-17-04, 09:32 AM
As long as the Sox have to play half of their games on the road, I am not afraid of them. Sure, the Sox might take the head to head series with the Yankees this year. It happened in 1999 and we know the results. But, I am becoming more and more convinced that the Sox can't win the division. 15-16 on the road is just not going to get it done.

I am also shocked at how poorly the 3-5 starters have pitched for the Sox. Wakefield looks lost out there most of the time. Really, Pedro only started to be dominant his last two starts. If Lowe turns it around, then the Sox will be a bit more scarey. . but for now.

Jersey Yankee
06-17-04, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by SINCE77 2
Be careful what you wish for. A lot of Sox fans are really looking forward to meeting the Yankees again in order to get right back into things. I wonder if they ever took into account that they might lose 5-6 and find themselves in the double digits in GB. Just a thought. They way they've been losing, so this thread seems to be about seeing if any of us get butterflies about playing the "mighty mouse" BoSox.

To those who point out the 6 of 7 games, I'll only counter by saying that around that time, TB was around 1st place, and the Yanks are a notoriously slow starting team. You have to beat all the teams you face, not just one team out of 19 tries. Boston *WAS* doing that until May, but aren't on fire, as before.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/standings
They're doing well at home (not as good as the Yanks, though), but their road numbers are sub-.500.

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/standings
As you can clearly see, their numbers come only from the AL East. They can't even stomp the weaker AL Central, since they're only 7-6 there, and are *TELLINGLY* 4-7 in the powerful AL West. I guess that people who feel we should be "scared" of them don't use the AL West as a barometer, even though that's a very powerful division.

By comparison, the Yanks are 7-3 in the Central; 16-8 in the West, and have just won 14 of their last 15 series. How many of their last series has Boston won? Let's see if they can avoid getting swept by Colorado, the team the Yanks just swept. That "road rules" thing doesn't apply to them.
Yeah, I'm scared like heck. I'm sweating bullets, crapping bricks right now, can't even eat breakfast!!! :scared:

Jersey Yankee
06-17-04, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by jpao89
As long as the Sox have to play half of their games on the road, I am not afraid of them. Sure, the Sox might take the head to head series with the Yankees this year. It happened in 1999 and we know the results. But, I am becoming more and more convinced that the Sox can't win the division. 15-16 on the road is just not going to get it done.

I am also shocked at how poorly the 3-5 starters have pitched for the Sox. Wakefield looks lost out there most of the time. Really, Pedro only started to be dominant his last two starts. If Lowe turns it around, then the Sox will be a bit more scarey. . but for now. Despite all the hard evidence, not a *SINGLE* Red Sox fan comes here to offer a solid reason why we should be scared of them. When will they ever learn?

jpao89
06-17-04, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by WakefieldsCrewSox


Anything is possible. But I highly doubt it. It will be interesting to see what the pitching matchups are....will Brown be back by then?

The Yankees simply were not hitting a lick when they faced the Sox in April. Now, because of the rivalry, I don't see the Yankees sweeping the Sox, but I also don't see the Yankees being swept.

Bub
06-17-04, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
They're only 7-6 in the AL Central, and are 4-7 in the powerful AL West.
By comparison, the Yanks are 7-3 in the Central; 16-8 in the West When those 13 games for Boston against the west are made up, along with the Yanks 11 games against the east, more ground will be gained....probably 3 or 4 games.

Jersey Yankee
06-17-04, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by Bub
When those 13 games for Boston against the west are made up, along with the Yanks 11 games against the east, more ground will be gained....probably 3 or 4 games. You're saying when Boston plays the AL West again, they'll lose a few more games? Or when the Yanks play the AL West?

Boston's sched/results (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/schedule?team=bos)
Yanks' (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/schedule?team=nyy) (the same)

Jersey Yankee
06-17-04, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by jpao89
The Yankees simply were not hitting a lick when they faced the Sox in April. Now, because of the rivalry, I don't see the Yankees sweeping the Sox, but I also don't see the Yankees being swept. Don't ask them to remember this. I guess that "6 of 7" seems mighty to them, despite their having a weak schedule, their team being fast starters out of the gate, the Yanks being a slow-starting team.

In '98, I think the Yanks lost about 12 of their first 15 games. How'd that season turn out?

cubswin
06-17-04, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by GoRocket


well in that case every starter on every major league team is a proven starter so that really isn't saying much.

If you never really had Burks then how can you be missing him?


No - want 2 ex. of starters who were not proven major leaguers (IMO) coming into the season? Arroyo and Contreras

Did they sign Burks? Yes. Had he not been injured, would he be playing for the Red Sox right now? Most likely. Would he contributing? Most likely. Therefore, they are missing him.

(If, otoh, you want to compare them to the team last year, you are right -- his absence is irrelevant. But I think this part of the discussion was initially was about the impact of injuries.)

cubswin
06-17-04, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
I have a problem with the term "proven" concerning BH Kim. Brenly didn't trust him in 2001, since he'd made the unprecedent (AFAIK) move to have the Game 6 winner close Game 7. Last season, he'd started 12 of 56 games he'd played in (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=6237&context=pitching), but I don't know his '03 record as an SP was. The only thing he's ever "proven" to be is 1-1, 6.17 ERA in '04 over 3 games. I consider this very little as far as being an SP if the term "proven" is used. Considering he's supposed to be a starter, the "saves" wouldn't count much, just like Lowe's shaky "saves" in '01 wouldn't account f/much now either.

...

As to your not having said I should be scared of anything, might I inform you that the purpose of this thread was to be responded to by Yankee *FANS*, not Yankee *PLAYERS*? And that the forum's URL is nyyFANS.com? Therefore, as a fan, which I am, I'm allowed to reply, so I don't get your point's relevance. As Jim and Deb have said (if I remember correctly), they don't encourage Yankee players to stop by, so I don't understand your point.

BTW, I'm well aware it's a game. I think that should be obvious, just as when I'd made obvious points, you'd pointed that out in the past.


For the 3rd time, I said he is a proven major league pitcher, and th Sox with him as an option for #5 starter are better than w/o him as that option.

I did not say proven starter.

Why is he a proven pitcher (not starter)? Again, 400 IP, 3.30 ERA, 86 saves.

And I'm well aware of the purpose of this thread. Again, my point was simple, even if it appeared confusing: I did not say you should be afraid. That's it - very simple. You should not be afraid. No fan should be afraid of the Sox. No fan should be afraid of any team that the team they root for faces. Fear should not enter the equation.

WakefieldsCrewSox
06-17-04, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
Despite all the hard evidence, not a *SINGLE* Red Sox fan comes here to offer a solid reason why we should be scared of them. When will they ever learn?

Jersey, give me a break. Just about every post in this thread has been substantiated by a reason. Obviously there are no guarantees that Yankee fans have to, or should, acknowledge them as being a reason to be scared. But don't run this line of garbage as though people are simply saying "be scared of us" and nothing else. Whether you choose to ignore the 'evidence' or not, people are taking the time to put it out there.

Espinosa's Glasses
06-17-04, 01:18 PM
are they going to come to my house and beat me up...?

if not... I'm not scared...

they are good at baseball though...

JavyVazquezIsSick
06-17-04, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by Espinosa's Glasses
are they going to come to my house and beat me up...?

if not... I'm not scared...

they are good at baseball though...

:lol:

Jersey Yankee
06-17-04, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by WakefieldsCrewSox
Jersey, give me a break. Just about every post in this thread has been substantiated by a reason. Obviously there are no guarantees that Yankee fans have to, or should, acknowledge them as being a reason to be scared. But don't run this line of garbage as though people are simply saying "be scared of us" and nothing else. Whether you choose to ignore the 'evidence' or not, people are taking the time to put it out there. In that case, please substantiate why I should be scared of the Red Sox. Where has that been substantiated?

First you say that everything's been substantiated, then you say that there's no "guarantee" for us to be scared. Well, if there's no guarantee f/us to be scared, then why should we be? I personally feel that despite a weak schedule, Boston hasn't done anything to make me scared, considering the April/May run is long gone.

If it's not about "being scared of us", then what is it? Please explain if there's more to it than that, what it is.

As to "evidence", the only one I see is 5.5 GB. What "evidence" do you see why I should be scare? Please give me a good reason.

As to putting it out there, that just means someone decided to add a little fuel to the fire. That doesn't make anything about being "scared" legit. Again, after having fully read your reply, I'm still not seeing a single Boston fan saying why we should be scared. If there is a reason, please state what that reason is.

Jersey Yankee
06-17-04, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by cubswin
For the 3rd time, I said he is a proven major league pitcher, and th Sox with him as an option for #5 starter are better than w/o him as that option.

I did not say proven starter.

Why is he a proven pitcher (not starter)? Again, 400 IP, 3.30 ERA, 86 saves.

And I'm well aware of the purpose of this thread. Again, my point was simple, even if it appeared confusing: I did not say you should be afraid. That's it - very simple. You should not be afraid. No fan should be afraid of the Sox. No fan should be afraid of any team that the team they root for faces. Fear should not enter the equation. I'm basing "proven" on results. What are you basing "proven" on? His numbers are OK, but as a reliever, your ERA doesn't go up if you allow inherited runners to score. He hasn't exactly been awesome against the Yanks, so I'm not sure what he's "proven" to deserve being called this.

If you're telling me he's such a good reliever, then what has he proven as a starter? To me, he has lots to prove, moreso as a starter, per IP, but IMO, he hasn't proven himself to be a quality reliever, per the end results.

OK, I'll accept that you didn't say I should be scared. However, my point is that since a Boston fan came here and asked us if we're scared of Boston. That alone can be seen as incendiary, but I'll leave that part alone. However, given the results of the past few weeks, if one checks the standings, I'm wondering what there is to be scared of? Are they the big bad wolf or something?

While it's not *YOUR* fault that this question is being asked, but I had to ask it, considering the thread's title.

WakefieldsCrewSox
06-17-04, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
In that case, please substantiate why I should be scared of the Red Sox. Where has that been substantiated?

First you say that everything's been substantiated, then you say that there's no "guarantee" for us to be scared.

If it's not about "being scared of us", then what is it? Please explain if there's more to it than that, what it is.

As to "evidence", the only one I see is 5.5 GB. What "evidence" do you see why I should be scare? Please give me a good reason.

As to putting it out there, that just means someone decided to add a little fuel to the fire. That doesn't make anything about being "scared" legit. Again, after having fully read your reply, I'm still not seeing a single Boston fan saying why we should be scared. If there is a reason, please state what that reason is.

I feel that you misunderstood my post, and I very well may have misunderstood yours. I was under the impression that you were saying no Sox fan in this thread was giving any reasons why *theoretically*, a Yankee fan should possibly be concerned. (By not posting any supporting evidence, stats etc). In short, I thought you were making a broad criticism of the posts in general, which I thought was disrespectful for those who took the time to argue a point.

Obviously I did not mean that those points made are necessarily enough for Yankee fans to be scared of the Sox. I agree with you that there is no reason right now. Not only was the word 'scared' wrong, but with just slightly less than 2/3 of the season to be played, its a ridiculous question. Perhaps asking this before the two teams square off in a 7 game October series would be another thing.

Jersey Yankee
06-17-04, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by Espinosa's Glasses
are they going to come to my house and beat me up...?

if not... I'm not scared...

they are good at baseball though... My feelings exactly. They're not too good against Colorado though. :P ;)

Jersey Yankee
06-17-04, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by WakefieldsCrewSox
I feel that you misunderstood my post, and I very well may have misunderstood yours. I was under the impression that you were saying no Sox fan in this thread was giving any reasons why *theoretically*, a Yankee fan should possibly be concerned. (By not posting any supporting evidence, stats etc). In short, I thought you were making a broad criticism of the posts in general, which I thought was disrespectful for those who took the time to argue a point.

Obviously I did not mean that those points made are necessarily enough for Yankee fans to be scared of the Sox. I agree with you that there is no reason right now. Not only was the word 'scared' wrong, but with just slightly less than 2/3 of the season to be played, its a ridiculous question. Perhaps asking this before the two teams square off in a 7 game October series would be another thing. I was more replying to the original question. My simple question is this:

If the original poster and/or any Boston fan on this board feels that we as Yankee fans should be "scared" of the Boston Red Sox team beating the New York Yankee team to take and keep 1st place, then I'd like to know why they feel that way. Clear enough? Nothing more, nothing less.

I agree in that I also don't see why the word "scared" should be used, since it's rather incendiary, used to create a "reaction" of sorts. It's almost like throwing a side of beef at a vegetarian's meeting or something.

I will admit I'll always keep an eye on Boston, since I *RESPECT* them as a team, and that it usually only takes one lousy pitcher to get them out of an offensive slump (from last season), I don't think that the term "scared" is appropriate.

Please note, I've been on other Yankee boards (not yankees.com), and one Boston board, but we always knew how to keep cool w/each other. That's all I'll say.

I'm more upset w/the original poster and the silly thread title than anything else.

cubswin
06-17-04, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
I'm basing "proven" on results. What are you basing "proven" on? His numbers are OK, but as a reliever, your ERA doesn't go up if you allow inherited runners to score. He hasn't exactly been awesome against the Yanks, so I'm not sure what he's "proven" to deserve being called this.

If you're telling me he's such a good reliever, then what has he proven as a starter? To me, he has lots to prove, moreso as a starter, per IP, but IMO, he hasn't proven himself to be a quality reliever, per the end results.

OK, I'll accept that you didn't say I should be scared. However, my point is that since a Boston fan came here and asked us if we're scared of Boston. That alone can be seen as incendiary, but I'll leave that part alone. However, given the results of the past few weeks, if one checks the standings, I'm wondering what there is to be scared of? Are they the big bad wolf or something?

While it's not *YOUR* fault that this question is being asked, but I had to ask it, considering the thread's title.


Fair point re ERA and relievers. However, he also has a career WHIP of 1.17 and 10.1Ks/9, also good #s in categoriues that many people look at instad of ERA for relievers.

Agreed that he has not proven himself as a starter. Again, though, my only point as regarded Kim was two-fold: (i) he is a proven major league pitcher -- anybody with the kind of #s he has posted over more than 400 IP is proven -- not awesome, not great, just proven -- if you disagree, frankly, I don't understand, but that's fine -- I don't need to; and (ii) the Sox with Kim as an option for their #5 starter are better than without him as an option for their #5 starter -- I don't think this is disputable.

Re. being scared, I agree with you, even re. the incendiary, given who I think stated the thread.

soxdtr
06-17-04, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by Yankee Bulldawg
respect must be earned, until the Red Sux ever win the World Series they will never have my respect. '


Red Sux huh? That's original.

Jersey Yankee
06-17-04, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by cubswin
Fair point re ERA and relievers. However, he also has a career WHIP of 1.17 and 10.1Ks/9, also good #s in categoriues that many people look at instad of ERA for relievers.

Agreed that he has not proven himself as a starter. Again, though, my only point as regarded Kim was two-fold: (i) he is a proven major league pitcher -- anybody with the kind of #s he has posted over more than 400 IP is proven -- not awesome, not great, just proven -- if you disagree, frankly, I don't understand, but that's fine -- I don't need to; and (ii) the Sox with Kim as an option for their #5 starter are better than without him as an option for their #5 starter -- I don't think this is disputable.

Re. being scared, I agree with you, even re. the incendiary, given who I think stated the thread. Finally something we agree upon.

As to who started it, I couldn't care less. Seems more like several gallons of gasoline thrown on a simmering fire.

I'm pretty much done w/this thread, since it's likely gone as far as it can.

Espinosa's Glasses
06-17-04, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by soxdtr
'


Red Sux huh? That's original.

oh man... you'll have to excuse him... he meant to say the Rose-Colored Tootsie Warmers

Yankee Cowboy
06-17-04, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by RSN


They seem to have played pretty well against a certain team that is located 206 miles to the south...without Nomar and Nixon...Just saying that all your:lol: could turn into:(

you have a good point...... but the problem is that the Red Sox rarely play in October when it counts.....if only they would play the W.S. in April.....:NY: :lol:

YankeePride1967
06-17-04, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by cubswin



No - want 2 ex. of starters who were not proven major leaguers (IMO) coming into the season? Arroyo and Contreras

Did they sign Burks? Yes. Had he not been injured, would he be playing for the Red Sox right now? Most likely. Would he contributing? Most likely. Therefore, they are missing him.

(If, otoh, you want to compare them to the team last year, you are right -- his absence is irrelevant. But I think this part of the discussion was initially was about the impact of injuries.)

Notice how I'm counting Karsay as a 2003 injury and am not counting him as a 2004 injury as the Yanks aren't counting on him. If Burks and Nixon started the year healthy, Millar would have been at first predominantly and Ortiz would have been the primary DH. Now would Millar have struggled if he wasn't worrying about playing the OF? I can only speculate, but if Burks played noticeably, some good player would have sat. Right now I don't know where Burks plays.

Kim has never started anywhere close to a full season. I think you have to play a few seasons to be a proven starter (meaning 30+ starts). How can anyone say a guy is a proven anything if he's never done it?

YankeePride1967
06-17-04, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by soxdtr
'


Red Sux huh? That's original.

About as much as "Yankees s*ck"

cubswin
06-17-04, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by GoRocket


Notice how I'm counting Karsay as a 2003 injury and am not counting him as a 2004 injury as the Yanks aren't counting on him. If Burks and Nixon started the year healthy, Millar would have been at first predominantly and Ortiz would have been the primary DH. Now would Millar have struggled if he wasn't worrying about playing the OF? I can only speculate, but if Burks played noticeably, some good player would have sat. Right now I don't know where Burks plays.

Kim has never started anywhere close to a full season. I think you have to play a few seasons to be a proven starter (meaning 30+ starts). How can anyone say a guy is a proven anything if he's never done it?


I don't know Karsay's situation: was he healthy in the offseason and spring training? I assume he wasn't. If he wasn't expected to be playing, then you can make otehr plans, sign other players, etc.

Burks was supposed to be playing, albeit mostly DHing at first (due to elbow). He then hurt his knee, which has kept him out.

Would Millar have struggled? Probably. Look at his 2nd half decline last year. Nothing to do with where he's playing. Also, as I said re. Burks, it hurts their depth. Instead of Kapler, McCarty or Crespo coming in to pinch hit, or replacing a "good player" on an off day, you have Burks. That makes the team better.

Re. Kim: how many times do I have to say the exact same thing, which you either cannot understand or refuse to acknowledge: I never said Kim is a proven starter. I said he is a proven major league pitcher, and that the Sox with him as an option for their #5 spot in the rotation are better than w/o him as an option.

cubswin
06-17-04, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by GoRocket


About as much as "Yankees s*ck"



? Did Soxdtr say that?

51BWilliams
06-18-04, 12:51 AM
Boy, who would've thought this thread would have turned into a back and forth arguement between Sox and Yanks fans. I know I never saw it coming. Sometimes, things like this just jump up and bite you in the ass, ya know? :P

RhodeyYankee2638
06-18-04, 12:55 AM
As Yankee fans, we should all be afraid of the Red Sox. This way, when we beat them, we seem like the underdog (hell, the underdogs have been winning like crazy over the past couple years: marlins, angels, Patriots, Pistons, the NHL team)

MaineSoxFan
06-18-04, 06:45 AM
Originally posted by RhodeyYankee2638
As Yankee fans, we should all be afraid of the Red Sox. This way, when we beat them, we seem like the underdog (hell, the underdogs have been winning like crazy over the past couple years: marlins, angels, Patriots, Pistons, the NHL team)

It is interesting that the teams without the real star power won the championships in all the major sports this year: Pistons, Pats, Marlins and Tampa Bay. They all had solid teams with some very good players, but they lacked the star power of some of the other teams competing.

KingMouse
06-19-04, 02:05 AM
I think these threads aren't really meant to go this long.
There have been a few other "Are you scared of ______?" threads, and this probably just followed that. Also, there's been awful lot of trash-talking towards the sox during the last few days, so this was maybe just a response. Either way, it can probably be closed now. Or yesterday.

KingMouse
06-19-04, 02:08 AM
Originally posted by Yankee Cowboy


you have a good point...... but the problem is that the Red Sox rarely play in October when it counts.....if only they would play the W.S. in April.....:NY: :lol:

The important thing to remember here is that it's June. That means that we still have a ways to go. More importantly, however, that means that it's not October. Which, sadly, means that past postseason victories aren't going to help your team.